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The Internet Becomes Sentient

 
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1500 post, cool, congratulations. That amounts to a considerable volume of work.

I'm not sure what the exact definition of spaming is, but my four posts took up less space than you one post. Can you please point me to the rule on spamming at this forum? I would be glad to abide by the rule. Thanks.

There is a sever relationship between paranormal activity and time, the missing constant usually forgotten. If you possessed a working ipod with charged batteries back around 1450 AD you would most likely be burned at the stake if you showed it publicly, you agree, right? Paranormal activity is completely related to technological advance. Most of the things considered paranormal a thousand years ago are easily attained now and many things available to us now would easily be considered paranormal then. Of course there are things today that are still considered paranormal or magic, but I’ll bet you that they too will too someday be just technology. This excludes gods, spirits and ghosts; I doubt that they will ever be proved.

One man's magic is another man's engineering. Supernatural is a null word. ~ Robert Heinlein

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~ Stephen Roberts

To be matter of fact about the world is to blunder into fantasy and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful. ~ Robert Heinlein

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ~ Arthur C. Clarke
 
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I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

~ Stephen Roberts
 
"One man's whisper is another man's yell.
Like positive and negative, it weighs out on a scale.
Balance of opinion."
Wehrmacht
 
sinsanity2006 said:
1500 post, cool, congratulations. That amounts to a considerable volume of work.
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Not really.
I'm not sure what the exact definition of spaming is, but my four posts took up less space than you one post. Can you please point me to the rule on spamming at this forum? I would be glad to abide by the rule. Thanks.
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Read your membership agreement.

There is a sever relationship between paranormal activity and time, the missing constant usually forgotten. If you possessed a working ipod with charged batteries back around 1450 AD you would most likely be burned at the stake if you showed it publicly, you agree, right?
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But we are not in the 1450 ad. We are in the 21'st century. And if the Ipod were present in 1450, it would have been a result of the then present technology and thus not supernatural. Or a matter of burning since it would be a known technology.

Paranormal activity is completely related to technological advance. Most of the things considered paranormal a thousand years ago are easily attained now and many things available to us now would easily be considered paranormal then. Of course there are things today that are still considered paranormal or magic, but I’ll bet you that they too will too someday be just technology. This excludes gods, spirits and ghosts; I doubt that they will ever be proved.
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And this deals with what in connection with your claim(s) exactly?

One man's magic is another man's engineering. Supernatural is a null word. ~ Robert Heinlein

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~ Stephen Roberts

To be matter of fact about the world is to blunder into fantasy and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful. ~ Robert Heinlein

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ~ Arthur C. Clarke
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Nice quotes. But not relevant to a MDC claim.
So far you have:
Claimed that the internet is sentient (debunked)
Indicated that the Internet is telepatic(not yet proven)

If you claim that the man with the chip in his brain are using telepathy to control the computer, then you are wrong.

The test person is hardwired to a device which are reading his neuro-electrical discharges in one or more of his cortical areas, most likely either the motor cortex or the sensory cortex when one takes in the apparent positioning of the hardwire gate, and the discharges are translated by the implanted device and/or the external hardwire gate to be send to the computers OS system in much the same way as an editing program translates impulses stored on a DV-tape, just with more interactivity.

Telepathy does not contain this hardwiring. Telepathy indicates control of the computer OS WITHOUT contact to the machinery in question.
As such you using the mentioned hardwire setup becomes void in connection with a paranormal claim.
 
The_Fire said:
Nice quotes. But not relevant to a MDC claim.
So far you have:
Claimed that the internet is sentient (debunked)
Indicated that the Internet is telepatic(not yet proven)

If you claim that the man with the chip in his brain are using telepathy to control the computer, then you are wrong.

The test person is hardwired to a device which are reading his neuro-electrical discharges in one or more of his cortical areas, most likely either the motor cortex or the sensory cortex when one takes in the apparent positioning of the hardwire gate, and the discharges are translated by the implanted device and/or the external hardwire gate to be send to the computers OS system in much the same way as an editing program translates impulses stored on a DV-tape, just with more interactivity.

Telepathy does not contain this hardwiring. Telepathy indicates control of the computer OS WITHOUT contact to the machinery in question.
As such you using the mentioned hardwire setup becomes void in connection with a paranormal claim.
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Isn't this a sort of "telepathy of the gaps". And perhaps a "no true scotsman" approach? It seems to me a man using a chip in his brain and a wireless interface to manipulate or see something that's not in range of his other sense or limbs is functionally engaging in telepathy. Particularly if the entire get-up can be implanted in his brain such that it's invisible to the naked eye.
 
Dave1001 said:
Isn't this a sort of "telepathy of the gaps". And perhaps a "no true scotsman" approach? It seems to me a man using a chip in his brain and a wireless interface to manipulate or see something that's not in range of his other sense or limbs is functionally engaging in telepathy. Particularly if the entire get-up can be implanted in his brain such that it's invisible to the naked eye.
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Not as I see it. Telepathy, as I understand it, doesn't require the changing of the physical state of the brain. In this instance the insertion of the chip. Nor does it require a translation device. It is a paranormal event which is not aided by science.

Here there is a chip which records the electrial discharges and then a translator unit turns it into something the computer can understand depending on which part of the cortex "lights up", probably with the help of an old MRI scan of the persons brain when the person is focusing on activating eg. the number 3 on the keypad. Instead of sending the signals to a non-functioning arm/hand, the chip sends it to the computer and the chip becomes the high-tech equvelant of an artificial hand. It's science. And parts of it even fairly old science. What's new is the fact that it's actually possible from a medical standpoint. And it's most likely not an eligible MDC challenge claim.
 
The_Fire said:
Not as I see it. Telepathy, as I understand it, doesn't require the changing of the physical state of the brain. In this instance the insertion of the chip. Nor does it require a translation device. It is a paranormal event which is not aided by science.

Here there is a chip which records the electrial discharges and then a translator unit turns it into something the computer can understand depending on which part of the cortex "lights up", probably with the help of an old MRI scan of the persons brain when the person is focusing on activating eg. the number 3 on the keypad. Instead of sending the signals to a non-functioning arm/hand, the chip sends it to the computer and the chip becomes the high-tech equvelant of an artificial hand. It's science. And parts of it even fairly old science. What's new is the fact that it's actually possible from a medical standpoint. And it's most likely not an eligible MDC challenge claim.
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Of course it's science, cause it's possible, and anything that's demonstrably possible falls within science. But I think what I described is telepathy too. To say that telepathy as you understand doesn't involve changing the physical state of the brain seems to me to be "no true scotsman" and an actual revisionist definition of what telepathy is to exclude these innovations.

According to dictionary.com telepathy is "communication between minds by some means other than sensory perception."

I think chips implanted in 2 people's brain allowing them to communicate without using the senses is a fair fit to the definition of telepathy.
 
Hmmmmm, I guess you didn't read the articles I posted and you didn't read the other previous posts I have made maintaining that I agree that the event that happened to me was not paranormal. I might have been considered paranormal twenty years ago, but not now.

If you looked at the second article you would see that it is not chip based and is more like a tin foil hat.

Check this out.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9663527-1.html?subj=Crave&part=rss&tag=feed

"Now Hitachi has come up with a machine-brain interface that lets people do things with brainpower. The machine is essentially a big optical sensor which detects changes in blood flow in the brain."

No chips involved. I guess you can think of things that increases blood flow in the brain that can be sensed by the hat

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And this article posted today:

http://www.techworld.com/applications/news/index.cfm?newsID=7391&pagtype=samechan

“Equally fantastic is Hitachi research [pdf] showing that a human could control an on/off switch by merely thinking about it. Non-invasive optical topography was used to detect changes in the volume of blood in areas of the brain's pre-frontal cortex as subjects carried out mental arithmetic or imagined singing a song. Detected changes were used to turn a model railway on or off”

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I posted in the challenge section to discuss if my experience was suitable for a challenge, But quickly learned that this was not suitable for a challenge.

The_Fire said:
That's why I can't get the million dollars. This can be duplicated if you do the exact same things I did. But the answers have already been given and they are done. They are set in stone. I already checked that. It is in the article. If I think of a different question and enter one of the characters I have already used, it will give me the original result no matter what question I ask. I think this was a one time thing. The next event like this will be someone else that isn't expecting it either. And it won't be about "bush hid the facts".
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Right after I first posted here about this event, a series of news articles appeared.

sinsanity2006 said:
I thought it was a funny coincidence that within 24 hours of me posting this here headlines around the world said:

US, UK scientists invent mind-reading computers
People's Daily Online, China

Soon: Computer that reads your mind
Times of India, India

Computers 'set to read our minds'
BBC News, UK

New computers can read minds
iAfrica.com, South Africa

Computers That Can Read Minds
techsearch, NY

New computer knows how you feel
Scenta.co.uk, UK

Scientists working on mind-reading computers
EiTB, Spain

'Emotionally Aware' Computers May Be Able to Read Minds
TechNewsWorld, CA
. . . . .

I mentioned these because it is kind of quirky that these all appeared within twenty four hours after I posted this here. Nothing more than trying to bring some humor to the discussion. Just smile at the headlines and move on. . . . .
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The above articles maintain that computers can recognize human emotions. That is described in detail in each of the above news articles.

Then . . .

I jumped over and looked at what Randi's Encyclopedia said about telepathy:

http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/telepathy.html

"telepathy . . . It refers to the supposed ability of humans or animals to perceive the thoughts or emotions of others without the use of the recognized senses .

So, for a computer or network to be parasentient and have telepathy with humans, there would have to a perception of human emotion that was done not using a recognized sense. But this is not the case.

In fact the sense we are talking about is the computers use of video, thermal, x-ray, or what ever is best for the application and processing.

Can’t make it simpler than this.

If one does not recognize the senses that the computer uses to perceive human emotion, then the computer is telepathic.

If one does recognize the senses that the computer uses to perceive human emotion, then the computer is using a sense and is sentient.

sen‧tient  ˈsɛn ʃənt - [sen-shuh nt] Pronunciation Key
–adjective
1. having the power of perception by the senses.

There you have it. Either computers are sentient or they are telepathic.

Since Randi seems to not accept that computers can be sentient, by not recognizing their senses, they are therefore telepathic. Please let me know if this is an acceptable claim and if so, where the paper work is.

It would be great for Randi to announce that the internet is sentient, as defined by his definition. Could be one of the things that will go down in history, and that’s a long time.

Randi declares internet sentient.

If you accept that computers have senses, they are sentient, if you do not accept that computers have senses, they are parasentient or telepathic.

This is like the size of the Universe has always been to human science exactly as big as the newest biggest telescopes can see.

-----

The injury we do and the one we suffer are not weighed in the same scale. ~ Aesop

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as the poor, to sleep under the bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. ~ Anatole France

Statistically one hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in ~ Wayne Gretsky

We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes. ~ Gene Roddenberry

Be happy while you're living, for you're a long time dead. ~ Scottish proverb

To be wronged is nothing unless you continue to remember it. ~ Confucius
 
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Hey GzuzKryzt,

I see you haven't changed much, huh.

Thanks for the laugh, you always seem to make me laugh.

Thanks for that.

: )

Is your reference to the Manfred Mann song "Ha Ha Said The Clown?"

Actually, the lyrics are somewhat relevant to this discussion.

Thanks for your input.

I wish you well.

: )

Manfred Mann - Ha Ha Said The Clown.

Ha! Ha! said the clown, has the king lost his crown,
is the night being tight on romance.
Ha! Ha! said the clown, is it bringing you down
that you've lost your chance.

Feeling low, gotta go, see a show in town.
Hear the jokes, have a smoke, and a laugh at the clown.
In a whirl, see a girl with a smile in her eyes.
Never thought I'd be brought right down by her lies.

In a trance, watch her dance to the beat of the drums.
Faster now, sweating brow, I'm all the fingers and thumbs.
Wonder why I hit the sky when she blows me a kiss.
In a while run a mile, I'm regretting all this.

Ha! Ha! said the clown, has the king lost his crown,
is the night being tight on romance.
Ha! Ha! said the clown, is it bringing you down
that you've lost your chance.

Time to go, close the show, wave the people good-bye.
Grab my coat, grab my hat, look that girl in the eye.
Where's your home, what's your phone number,
stop fooling round.
Could have died, she replied: "I'm the wife of the clown".

Ha! Ha! said the clown, has the king lost his crown,
is the night being tight on romance.
Ha! Ha! said the clown, is it bringing you down
that you've lost your chance.


- - - - - - - - - - - -

Any intelligent fool can make things better, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. ~ Albert Einstein

When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong. ~ Eugene V. Debs

What you do speaks so loud that I cannot hear what you say. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Be kind; everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~ Unknown

A thousand friends are few; one enemy is too many. ~ Russian proverb

Insanity in individuals is something rare; but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule. ~ Nietzsche

I saw a human skull the other day. There was an inscription below it: ‘Look long and hard at me, for I was once as you are and you will soon be as I am.’ ~ Unknown
 
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"Priceless, the look on his face.
If you look real close, you can see the expiration date."
Anthrax, "Black Dahlia"
 
Seems that video is a demo of the Cyberkinetics Neurotechnology Systems, Inc., of Foxborough, Mass, BrainGate Neural Interface System. Here's there webpage about the product.

http://www.cyberkineticsinc.com/content/medicalproducts/braingate.jsp

But it doesn't discuss or show the system. I guess I don't know what that other person is doing. Interestiong catch, but I doubt that they would release a video showing someone else manipulation what's going on. It would seem that if that was happening, they would hide that person.

I did find some articles that say that the system has to be "trained", so maybe the other person is the one that "trained" the system.

"In the training phase the device is trained to the subjects brain patterns. Two distinct brain patterns are needed to operate e.g. a simple an on/off switch."

The cyberkinetics system uses a chip that is implanted into a person's brain. I tried looking around for an explanaion of the system and setup, but couldn't find the complete system.

Here's a couple of more articles about it.

http://www.uchospitals.edu/news/2006/20060712-braingate.html

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Brai...nts-Convert-Thoughts-Into-Actions-29570.shtml

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More interesting are the systems that do not use a implanted chip. Here's some photos of different non invasive BCI (brain computer interface) systems.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3485918.stm

http://www.ece.ubc.ca/~garyb/BCI.htm

http://www.lce.hut.fi/research/css/bci/

http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/08/the-brain-computer-interface/

http://blogs.msdn.com/robburke/archive/2005/12/01/499152.aspx

http://www.flickr.com/photos/59845669@N00/sets/1490174/

Many participants at the event, including Clare (as pictured below) had a chance to try Mind Balance, and successfully used only the electrical activity at the surface of their head to control the Mawg as he walked the tightrope.

Here's a couple of guys playing pong with a non invasive BCI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCSSBEXBCbY&eurl=

http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/archives/005193.php

"One of the projects the team is working on is a "brain cap" that can detect and recognize musical ideas in the minds of composers with up to 99 percent accuracy. Project leader Eduardo Reck Miranda reported up to 99 percent accuracy in recognizing specific electroencephalogram patterns for musical ideas using a 128-electrode EEG brain cap with signal-processing algorithms."

http://neurofuture.blogspot.com/2006/10/brain-computer-interface-drawing.html

The curved lines so-called "brain waves" in medicine must be the "drawings" in the world of fine art, directly drawn by my brain without using ands. "Brain Waves Drawing" Live Performance by Hideki Nakazawa Nov 4-5, 2006 at Fuchu Art Museum, Tokyo Supported by Nihon Kohden

http://www.newscientisttech.com/article/dn8826.html

The machine makes it possible to type messages onto a computer screen by mentally controlling the movement of a cursor. A user must wear a cap containing electrodes that measure electrical activity inside the brain, known as an electroencephalogram (EEG) signal, and imagine moving their left or right arm in order to manoeuvre the cursor around.

- - - - - - - - -

Some quotes from different articles.

The effectiveness and robustness of the interface was demonstrated at the CeBIT 2006 (world's largest IT fair) where two subjects operated the mental typewriter at a speed of up to 7.6 char/min. It was developed within the Berlin Brain-Computer Interface project in cooperation with specialists for Human Computer Interaction.

This is an opportunity to experience firsthand, human-computer interaction using a brain-computer interface. Based on a normal pocketsize battery powered computer, with electrodes fitted to the scalp, visitors can learn more about how the interface works and discover the new possibilities enabled by this technology.

Their marked improvement in the performance of a non-invasive BCI can be attributed to changes in the signal processing and to advances in the adaptive algorithm.

The most widely used neuroprosthetic device is the cochlear implant, which was implanted in approximately 100,000 people worldwide as of 2006.

There's a tonne of articles about this stuff if you google "brain computer interface".

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Every great advance in natural knowledge has involved the absolute rejection of authority. ~ Thomas Huxley

It is hard to free fools from chains they revere. ~ Voltaire

Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others. ~ William Greider

If fifty million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. ~ Anatole France

When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist. ~ Archbishop Helder Camara

Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers. ~ Alfred, Lord Tennyson

A hushed heart hears the unuttered word. ~ Sri Aurobindo
 
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The_Fire said:
sinsanity2006 said:
1500 post, cool, congratulations. That amounts to a considerable volume of work.
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The_Fire said:
Not really.
Click to expand...
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Ahhhmmm, okay.


The_Fire said:
sinsanity2006 said:
I'm not sure what the exact definition of spaming is, but my four posts took up less space than you one post. Can you please point me to the rule on spamming at this forum? I would be glad to abide by the rule. Thanks.
Click to expand...

The_Fire said:
Read your membership agreement.
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I spent some time trying to find the membership agreement. I couldn’t find it in faqs or a help section. Can you please direct me to the membership agreement? Thanks in advance.

The_Fire said:
sinsanity2006 said:
There is a sever relationship between paranormal activity and time, the missing constant usually forgotten. If you possessed a working ipod with charged batteries back around 1450 AD you would most likely be burned at the stake if you showed it publicly, you agree, right?
Click to expand...

The_Fire said:
But we are not in the 1450 ad. We are in the 21'st century. And if the Ipod were present in 1450, it would have been a result of the then present technology and thus not supernatural. Or a matter of burning since it would be a known technology.
Click to expand...
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I think you miss my point. If you put an advanced technology into the past it would be considered paranormal. Or, advancements in technology make things that were previously paranormal – normal.

The_Fire said:
sinsanity2006 said:
Paranormal activity is completely related to technological advance. Most of the things considered paranormal a thousand years ago are easily attained now and many things available to us now would easily be considered paranormal then. Of course there are things today that are still considered paranormal or magic, but I’ll bet you that they too will too someday be just technology. This excludes gods, spirits and ghosts; I doubt that they will ever be proved.
Click to expand...

The_Fire said:
And this deals with what in connection with your claim(s) exactly?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I mention this because through out history advances in technology have made things that were considered paranormal – normal.

The_Fire said:
sinsanity2006 said:
One man's magic is another man's engineering. Supernatural is a null word. ~ Robert Heinlein

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~ Stephen Roberts

To be matter of fact about the world is to blunder into fantasy and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful. ~ Robert Heinlein

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ~ Arthur C. Clarke
Click to expand...

The_Fire said:
Nice quotes. But not relevant to a MDC claim.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Not to you, I can agree with that.

The_Fire said:
So far you have:
Claimed that the internet is sentient (debunked)
Indicated that the Internet is telepatic(not yet proven)
Click to expand...

I am not sure how you can say that the internet being sentient has been debunked. Many many news articles and research describe computers perceiving human emotion, They are very clear on that.

ˈsɛn ʃənt - [sen-shuh nt] Pronunciation Key sen‧tient
–adjective
1. having the power of perception by the senses.

I’m not sure what kind of logic you are using to arrive at your conclusion? And anyone with the slightest logic will determine that if you do not accept that computers are capable of recognized senses, they are therefore telepathic.

http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/telepathy.html

"telepathy . . . It refers to the supposed ability of humans or animals to perceive the thoughts or emotions of others without the use of the recognized senses .

The_Fire said:
If you claim that the man with the chip in his brain are using telepathy to control the computer, then you are wrong.

The test person is hardwired to a device which are reading his neuro-electrical discharges in one or more of his cortical areas, most likely either the motor cortex or the sensory cortex when one takes in the apparent positioning of the hardwire gate, and the discharges are translated by the implanted device and/or the external hardwire gate to be send to the computers OS system in much the same way as an editing program translates impulses stored on a DV-tape, just with more interactivity.
Click to expand...

Again, methinks that you haven’t done your research. There are many examples of BCI(Brain Computer Interface) that are NOT imbedded chips. Here are a few:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/59845669@N00/sets/1490174/

Many participants at the event, including Clare (as pictured below) had a chance to try Mind Balance, and successfully used only the electrical activity at the surface of their head to control the Mawg as he walked the tightrope.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCSSBEXBCbY&eurl=

Here's a couple of guys playing pong with a non invasive BCI.

http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com...ves/005193.php

"One of the projects the team is working on is a "brain cap" that can detect and recognize musical ideas in the minds of composers with up to 99 percent accuracy. Project leader Eduardo Reck Miranda reported up to 99 percent accuracy in recognizing specific electroencephalogram patterns for musical ideas using a 128-electrode EEG brain cap with signal-processing algorithms."

http://neurofuture.blogspot.com/2006...e-drawing.html

The curved lines so-called "brain waves" in medicine must be the "drawings" in the world of fine art, directly drawn by my brain without using ands. "Brain Waves Drawing" Live Performance by Hideki Nakazawa Nov 4-5, 2006 at Fuchu Art Museum, Tokyo Supported by Nihon Kohden

http://www.newscientisttech.com/article/dn8826.html

The machine makes it possible to type messages onto a computer screen by mentally controlling the movement of a cursor. A user must wear a cap containing electrodes that measure electrical activity inside the brain, known as an electroencephalogram (EEG) signal, and imagine moving their left or right arm in order to manoeuvre the cursor around.

All of these examples are chips not imbedded into a brain.

The_Fire said:
Telepathy does not contain this hardwiring. Telepathy indicates control of the computer OS WITHOUT contact to the machinery in question.
As such you using the mentioned hardwire setup becomes void in connection with a paranormal claim.
Click to expand...

The technology to replace the wires from the hat to the computer wirelessly is readily available. You know that. Again, you confuse me.

Thanks for your time, valid questions and interest.

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He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. ~ Thomas Jefferson

Kill a man, and you are an assassin. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone, and you are a god. ~ Jean Rostand

There is no real wealth but the labor of man. Where the mountains are of gold and the valleys of silver, the world would not be one grain of corn the richer; not one comfort would be added to the human race. ~ Percy B. Shelley

If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading. ~ Lao tzu

When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted its data. ~ Henry Morris

An upstart astrologer ... This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth. ~ Martin Luther on Copernicus
 
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