The Internet Becomes Sentient

[sinsanity2006]

That the code is pre-2001 proves nothing in any way about whether or not it was intentionally inserted.

However, you seem to have accepted that the behaviour is accidental then.

Good. You have reached a truth.

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Whoever undertakes to set himself up as judge in the field of truth and knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods. ~ Albert Einstein

 

[NiallM]

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Whoever undertakes to set himself up as judge in the field of truth and knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods. ~ Albert Einstein

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Keep trolling with quotes. You're no Albert Einstein. Not even an Albert Tatlock.

Every quote you have shown has been doubly applicable to you. Don't you know the problem with a stick? It points in both directions. Read Chesterton for that nugget.

Good day to you.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Keep trolling with quotes. You're no Albert Einstein. Not even an Albert Tatlock.

Every quote you have shown has been doubly applicable to you. Don't you know the problem with a stick? It points in both directions. Read Chesterton for that nugget.

Good day to you.

I agree with NiallM.

Your trolling is just not inventive enough to spark my interest any longer. This forum already has a one trick pony: T'ai Chi.

If you crave attention - which in doses is not necessarily destructive or annoying - join the forum community. Better yet: Meet real people. Yeah, most people suck. Try anyway.

Good day, Sir.

 

[sinsanity2006]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Keep trolling with quotes. You're no Albert Einstein. Not even an Albert Tatlock.

Every quote you have shown has been doubly applicable to you. Don't you know the problem with a stick? It points in both directions. Read Chesterton for that nugget.

Good day to you.

Thanks for the past interest, I wish you well.

 

[sinsanity2006]

I agree with NiallM.

Your trolling is just not inventive enough to spark my interest any longer. This forum already has a one trick pony: T'ai Chi.

If you crave attention - which in doses is not necessarily destructive or annoying - join the forum community. Better yet: Meet real people. Yeah, most people suck. Try anyway.

Good day, Sir.

Thanks for the quotes, I hope the best for you.

 

[Little 10 Toes]

I am not a JREF rep.

You said: I don’t consider Robots/Artificial Intelligence/Computers/Internets (RAICI) human or animal. Then neither should the JREF. You believe that they should change their definition. They don't have to.

Dictionary.com has updated its definitions of sense and vision to include reference to computers or RAICI.

Thank you for listing the sense definition from dictionary dot com. I notice that you chose definition #22 for computers. I like #1: noun any of the faculties, as sight, hearing, smell, taste, or touch, by which humans and animals perceive stimuli originating from outside or inside the body; and #21: verb (of certain mechanical devices) to detect physical phenomena, as light, temperature, radioactivity, etc., mechanically, electrically, or photoelectrically. (my bold)

You used sentient from dictionary dot com as well: having the power of perception by the senses. However you missed using the full defination of it: having the power of perception by the senses; conscious (my bold). If you pick a definition, please use the complete definition.

Dictionary dot com says of conscious: aware of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc. Last I checked, a computer is not aware of one's own existance, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc. Since no conscious, not sentient. Not sentient, no senses (noun).

In fact, the definition of senses included the words human and animal.

Using the definitions above, a computer does not have "senses", but it can sense.

I was not trained and/or programmed in using my fingers. No one had to write drivers for me to use my nose. I received no instructions on how to make noises. I don't have to flash my eyes because some jerk forgot where to place the decimal (Superman III and Office Space reference). If I hear strange things, I don't ask my spouse to reboot me (but I may get booted out of bed). Last time I checked, I am not availible in binary format only, and last time I shared my source code, my offspring was not released under the GPL. I am an animal and a human. I have senses. The computer does not.

All of the examples that you provided sounds like sensing (def #21) and not definition #1. (I will acknowledge that I did not read *any* of them except for the snipets you provided).

You stated: Thermoception is the ability to sense heat and cold. Computers have been doing this for a while. Thermostats connected to a computer climate control system are all over the place. I believe that thermostats were doing this before computers were connected. This use of the word sense is the verb not the noun.

Here are comments about some of the examples you use. They do not use the noun sense but the verb.

Hearing: Now Google is sentient?
Smell: able to detect trace amounts of chemicals that make up explosives
Taste: identify wine; tool use
Taste/Smell: your snipet says "electronic sensors" not senses
Touch: keyboards and mice complete electrical connections. By this example, my Atari 2600 is sentient along with my doorbell. I pull the trigger of a gun and the bullet reacts. Again, you misuse the word sense.

Again, computers can sense things, but do not have senses.

-----------------

"Wakka wakka" -- Pac-man and Ms. Pac-man

"Gunter glieben glauten globen" -- Def Leppard

"If Sir Mix-a-lot could lie, would he still like big butts?" -- Me

(insert other random quotes here)

 

[sinsanity2006]

You said: I don’t consider Robots/Artificial Intelligence/Computers/Internets (RAICI) human or animal. Then neither should the JREF. You believe that they should change their definition. They don't have to.

Of course they don’t have to. Try to understand this; by not changing it, JREF maintains that robots/Artificial Intellegence/Computers/Internets (RAICI) is telepathic because RAICA fulfills the function of their definition, but it is not included in the subject of the definition; showing that JREF does not recognize non biological senses.

Dictionary.com has updated its definitions of sense and vision to include reference to computers or RAICI.

Thank you for listing the sense definition from dictionary dot com. I notice that you chose definition #22 for computers. I like #1: noun any of the faculties, as sight, hearing, smell, taste, or touch, by which humans and animals perceive stimuli originating from outside or inside the body; and #21: verb (of certain mechanical devices) to detect physical phenomena, as light, temperature, radioactivity, etc., mechanically, electrically, or photoelectrically. (my bold)

Are you actually trying to defend a position that holds a definition of a word in a dictionary is not valid because it is not the first definition? We are not going to get very far if you maintain that only the first definition in a dictionary is the only valid one.

Let me ask you this:

Is the first definition in a dictionary the only valid definition of a word and all others are hereby declared null and void?

Let me ask you this:

Are you suggesting that the only valid definitions are the ones that you 'like'?

Let me ask you this:

Do you have sense enough to realize that you are postulating semantics instead of addressing the issue?

You used sentient from dictionary dot com as well: having the power of perception by the senses. However you missed using the full defination of it: having the power of perception by the senses; conscious (my bold). If you pick a definition, please use the complete definition.

Okay, I’ll include the complete line of a definition from now on. But I choose not to post the complete list of definitions, as you chose not to post the complete list of definitions above.

If you are familiar with the semicolon, it is used to separate independent clauses. In this case it means “as well as” not “and also”. To illustrate this point, look at the definition of sentient in the Merriam Webster dictionary:

Main Entry: sen•tient
Pronunciation: 'sen(t)-sh(E-)&nt, 'sen-tE-&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin sentient-, sentiens, present participle of sentire to perceive, feel
1 : responsive to or conscious of sense impressions <sentient beings>
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/sentient

Dictionary.com:

or
–conjunction
1. (used to connect words, phrases, or clauses representing alternatives): books or magazines; to be or not to be.

As one can see you get a choice. Both ‘responsive to sense impressions’ as well as ‘conscious of sense impressions’ are valid. Just as both ‘having the power of perception by the senses’; as well as ‘conscious’ are valid.

Being conscious and/or intelligent are not necessarily needed to be sentient but they are included in sentience. In other words, all things that are conscious and intelligent are usually sentient but all sentient things are not necessarily conscious and intelligent. RAICI does not have to be conscious or intelligent to be sentient. But I would say that a sentient entity would have to be able to receive information from sensory input, be able to process the information, be able to make a determination and/or act appropriately on the information.

For example, are insects intelligent? Do they have senses? Are ants conscious? Do they have senses? Are honey bees intelligent and conscious? Do honey bees have senses? Insects are not technically animals, does JREF consider their senses 'non-recognizable'?

Here’s a few more definitions:

Compact Oxford English Dictionary:
sentient
/sensh’nt/
• adjective
- able to perceive or feel things.
http://www.askoxford.com/results/?v...570&textsearchtype=exact&sortorder=score,name

Stedman’s Medical Dictionary:
sentient (sen shent, sen sh -ent)
Capable of, or characterized by, sensation.
http://www.stedmans.com/

Merck Medical Source
- Definition: able to feel; sensitive; having sensation or feeling.
http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cns/cns_home.jsp

Wordsmyth
- sentient Show phonetics
- adjective FORMAL
- able to experience physical and possibly emotional feelings: It is hard for a sentient person to understand how any parents could treat their child so badly.
http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=sentient&matchtype=exact

No mention of intelligence or conscious.

Speaking of sentient definitions, here’s a good one for you:

Space & Electronic Warfare Lexicon
- SENTIENT - A descriptor for a BRILLIANT MUNITION that is aware of itself and its surroundings. [12]

http://www.sew-lexicon.com/gloss_s.htm#SENTIENT

Dictionary dot com says of conscious: aware of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc. Last I checked, a computer is not aware of one's own existance, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc. Since no conscious, not sentient. Not sentient, no senses (noun).

Oh, wait, let’s look at this again, seems like the military always has the latest toys:

Space & Electronic Warfare Lexicon
- SENTIENT - A descriptor for a BRILLIANT MUNITION that is aware of itself and its surroundings. [12]

http://www.sew-lexicon.com/gloss_s.htm#SENTIENT

I suppose you need to check on it again. As you can see, RAICI is past sentient and embracing sapience and consciousness as we speak. You see the problem here; technology is advancing so far and so fast that you are not able to keep up with it. Just in the last few years RAICI has easily achieved sentience. Just most people don’t realize it yet. Now you are informed. So now you know too.

I hope you respond by saying something like, ‘Wow, okay things have changed’; rather than going off on an exercise in semantics.

I was not trained and/or programmed in using my fingers.

Of course you were trained and programmed in using your fingers. At one week old you didn’t have a clue what to do with your fingers. By trial and error and by use of your sensory inputs you trained yourself to use your fingers. It probably took a few months just to figure out you could suck your thumb. The first time someone sits down at a new and different gaming controller they suck. It takes a lot of time training your fingers to operate the new controller efficiently.

No one had to write drivers for me to use my nose.

Of course your nose was trained. You didn’t have a clue about what everything smelled like at birth. How many times have you smelled something and you didn’t know what it was? If you were able to determine what it wad, you trained your sense of smell to recognize something new.

I received no instructions on how to make noises.

Of course you received instruction on how to make noise. It took you two or three years of training from your caretakers before you could form a sentence.

I don't have to flash my eyes because some jerk forgot where to place the decimal (Superman III and Office Space reference)

.
Of course you don’t have to flash your eyes, but you can if you want.

If I hear strange things, I don't ask my spouse to reboot me (but I may get booted out of bed).

Yeah, I’ve been there, lol.

Last time I checked, I am not availible in binary format only, and last time I shared my source code, my offspring was not released under the GPL.

Lol, I see your point; but if I’m not mistaken RAICI has sequenced your genome pretty thoroughly.

I am an animal and a human. I have senses. The computer does not.

Of course you have senses; and of course RAICI can perceive through electronic stimuli. Just about anyone that can do long division by hand knows RAICI can accept input from electronic senses, make determinations and judgments from that data; and act on the outcome of the determination. I’ll even bet that a lot of people that don’t know how to do long division by hand know this.

All of the examples that you provided sounds like sensing (def #21) and not definition #1. (I will acknowledge that I did not read *any* of them except for the snipets you provided).

You stated: Thermoception is the ability to sense heat and cold. Computers have been doing this for a while. Thermostats connected to a computer climate control system are all over the place. I believe that thermostats were doing this before computers were connected. This use of the word sense is the verb not the noun.

Here are comments about some of the examples you use. They do not use the noun sense but the verb.

If I say, “I see you.” Is ‘see’ indicative of a sense. Of course it is. If I say, “I hear the music”. Is hear indicative of a sense? Of course it is. Sense can be defined by a verb as well as a noun.

Hearing: Now Google is sentient?

“Public hospital proceeds with first 'bionic ear' implant surgery on UAE national . . . . Unlike a hearing aid, which amplifies sound, a cochlear implant works by stimulating functioning auditory nerves with electrical impulses. It is used to help the profoundly deaf.”

- - CAUTION GRAPHIC - -

http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles.../10082674.html

People that use cochlear implants to hear will tell you every time that they have a sense of hearing; if it’s working right.

Let me ask you this:

When people with cochlear implants listen to music, is it your contention that they do not have the sense of hearing because it was heard by an electronic receptor?

If your answer is yes, I disagree with you.
If your answer is no, read on.

Let me ask you, if an entity can hear, is it sentient?

Smell: able to detect trace amounts of chemicals that make up explosives

Let me ask you, if an entity can pass a gas across receptors and make a determination as to what it is from the data received from the receptors, is it sentient?

Taste: identify wine; tool use

If an entity can pass liquids or solids over its receptors and determines what it is, is it sentient?

Taste/Smell: your snipet says "electronic sensors" not senses

I referenced a lot of articles they are surgically inserting photosensitive electronic sensors into people’s eyes.

“Ophthalmologists at Rush University Medical Center implanted Artificial Silicon Retina (ASR) microchips in the eyes of five patients to treat vision loss caused by retinitis pigmentosa (RP). The implant is a silicon microchip 2mm in diameter and one-thousandth of an inch thick, less than the thickness of a human hair. . . . . The ASR chip contains approximately 5,000 microscopic solar cells that convert light into electrical impulses.” 2005

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/04/050429100652.htm

“Mrs. Schoeman used a camera connected to the ‘artificial retina’ in her eye to distinguish a white plate from a plastic knife. ‘It just looks like a number of lights. If it's real skinny, I know it's the knife,’ says Mrs. Schoeman . . . The simple images patients see are produced by turning on different
combinations of the 16 electrodes.” 2003

http://showcase.erc-assoc.org/news/humayunwsjstory.pdf

Let me ask you this:

Does Mrs Schoeman have a basic sense of vision using an implanted electronic sensors?

Touch: keyboards and mice complete electrical connections. By this example, my Atari 2600 is sentient along with my doorbell. I pull the trigger of a gun and the bullet reacts. Again, you misuse the word sense.

Try to look at it this way. There is the spectrum of biological development between an atom and let’s say what human or RAICI could be like in a ten thousand years, where the human mind can do things like, telekinesis, telepathy and teleportation. This is just theoretical maximum of human RAICI development at the upper most level of the spectrum for this example.

It starts off with an atom, then molecules, then compounds, then cells, amoeba. Then bacteria, viruses and plants. This is where things started getting sense. I’ll bet some plants or fungus somewhere started reacting to variations in sunlight and water. They started leaning towards the light and away from the dark, then moving up or down because of the water. Then they started moving a lot, then a lot more and only looked back when the finally got the sense of sight. Then simple insects and simple fish. Somewhere around here we are getting sentience. Then animals, definitely sentient. Then pre-humans, probably starting to get consciousness. Then humans, okay we finally have sentient intelligence and sapience, though sometimes I wonder. Then we get the sense of telepathy, then telekinesis, then teleportation, then some things that we haven’t even thought up yet.

The advancement through this human development spectrum is the result of natural causes reacting to and with the natural earthly environment. The evolution of RAICI is the result of human directed causes reacting to and with the natural environment plus human created things. It took humans billions of years to reach sentience. It took RAICI hundreds of years, and it is not finished yet. The rate of advancement of RAICI is so much faster than human advancement that one might miss major milestones because it is happening right now.

Now as non-biological objects or entities move through their spectrum it is comparable. It started out with a smoke signals, then a door bell, then we got guns, keyboards and doorbells and television remotes. The level of sentience of these are similar to plants reacting to sunlight. Then simple logic circuits, then computers, then robots, then artificial intelligence. One of those automated vacuum cleaners might have the sense of the most basic insect.

I contend that RAICI is presently sentient, and it won’t be long until RAICI is sapient, if it hasn’t already happened.

Again, computers can sense things, but do not have senses.

So RAICI can see, hear, taste, smell, feel; possess the ability of equilibrioception, thermoception, proprioception, electroreception, magnetoreception, locationoception; is aware of itself and its surroundings; and it is not sentient?

RAICI can hear from a few hertz to terahertz. Humans can hear from about 20 to 20000 hertz. Humans have visual acuity of 20/20. Strategic defense initiative tracking telescopes have visual acuity much greater than that. Humans do have a chance to catch up, though:

Implantable Miniature Telescope for the Treatment of Visual Acuity Loss Resulting from End-Stage Age-Related Macular Degeneration. November 1, 2006

http://www.pitango.com/upload/news/Ophthalmology Magazine.pdf

If you have a chance, have a look at the photos on the first and forth pages, they are really spectacular. The implant even has an iris.

Humans don’t even have the recognized senses of electroreception, magnetoreception, locationoception.

I think one could make a strong case that RAICI is more sentient than humans.

Thanks for the sentient comments and questions. Sometimes forums turn into people trying to prove a point through ridicule and insult. It is refreshing that you don’t stoop to that.

"Wakka wakka" -- Pac-man and Ms. Pac-man

"Gunter glieben glauten globen" -- Def Leppard

"If Sir Mix-a-lot could lie, would he still like big butts?" -- Me

(insert other random quotes here)

I sense that these quotes are a form of sarcasm. If I am incorrect, I apologize in advance for the following sarcasm.


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You can always know the character of a man by the quotes he chooses to use. ~ Robert Denson

 

[sinsanity2006]

Anyone know how long the "edit" feature is available on a post. I still had some minor mistakes in a post that I didn't have time to correct. Is there some way for a user to lengthen that time?

Thanks in advance

 

[sinsanity2006]

Interesting . . .

FBI taps cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool

http://news.com.com/FBI taps cell p...tool/2100-1029_3-6140191.html?tag=st.txt.caro

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Does anyone besides me wonder what happened to sinsanity2006?

Er, bump.

 

[Alice Shortcake]

Fer pete's sake don't encourage him to come back...

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Fer pete's sake don't encourage him to come back...

Too late.

S/he has apparently not changed very much.