The Heiwa Challenge

[Newtons Bit]

But, out of these comments comes info. Such as your comment above about cracking in reinforced concrete.

Which, I would expect, means that the energy for gross "comminuation" is quite a variable. Which impacts a bunch of those energy estimates. It means you have to look at the raw data to see under what conditions they came up with their numbers. (I would confidently wager a 6-pack that no controlled test set their samples aside for 40 years...)

BTW, you didn't really get anyone off topic, Newt. The topic is supposed to be "Heiwa's Challenge". But since he won't answer any questions, there's no conversation there.

tom

Why would you even need to know what the total energy lost in destruction of the concrete is? Are you referring to the long since debunked Ross model?

 

[tfk]

That's a good post, tom. A lot of people don't seem to realize that the structure was designed to be strong as a complete system, but individual elements could fail when things went awry and they experienced loads they weren't designed to handle. And, the structure becomes less able to handle these increasing loads as more of its components are removed from the system.

Mackey also addressed similar issues to Tony's questions here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4350623#post4350623

Nah Minadin. Mine was actually kind of mediocre. Ryan, Dave Rogers, and others did a far better job in that thread you pointed to.


tom

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Nah Minadin. Mine was actually kind of mediocre. Ryan, Dave Rogers, and others did a far better job in that thread you pointed to.


tom

I think the point remains the same though. I've addressed the same point to Heiwa before and he counters that he's aware of how the design works as a system. Some of the professionals who subscribe to the CD fantasy hold that position, but analyze the collapse totally opposite of that understanding as well.

 

[Gamolon]

PS it sounds like it was rebar from the other posts. Any idea where it went ? The whole 110 acres ?

110 acres? Are you sure about that?

 

[FineWine]

So how would you say it collapsed ?

I am going to ask you a simple question. I have asked it maybe six or seven times, and you've run from it each time.

Floors C1-13 collapse and fall on A97. Does it matter if the contents of C1, the bottom of the collapsing mass, are light or heavy?

Let's assume that C1 contains lightweight lawn furniture and C2 contains metal printers' plates weighting over a ton each. If you were sitting at your desk on A97, should you

a) say your prayers: you're as good as dead;

b) keep talking on the phone--Heiwa thinks you're perfectly safe;

c) be glad that C1 is the one with the lawn furniture.

One of these answers is correct.

 

[bill smith]

You feel no embarrassment from getting everything wrong, do you?

Well I don't get eveything wrong but when I do I'm not in the least ashamed about it, no. I try to learn from the mistake. Do you get embarassed when you make a mistake ?

 

[bill smith]

I am going to ask you a simple question. I have asked it maybe six or seven times, and you've run from it each time.

Floors C1-13 collapse and fall on A97. Does it matter if the contents of C1, the bottom of the collapsing mass, are light or heavy?

Let's assume that C1 contains lightweight lawn furniture and C2 contains metal printers' plates weighting over a ton each. If you were sitting at your desk on A97, should you

a) say your prayers: you're as good as dead;

b) keep talking on the phone--Heiwa thinks you're perfectly safe;

c) be glad that C1 is the one with the lawn furniture.

One of these answers is correct.

I really coudn't say. That would be for Ryan Mackey or Newton here to answer. They perhaps fall in the category of OCT engineers.

 

[bill smith]

110 acres? Are you sure about that?

Assuming 110 one-acre floors-if they wre all reinforced uniformly then Yes- 110 acres.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Well I don't get eveything wrong but when I do I'm not in the least ashamed about it, no. I try to learn from the mistake.

What do you propose is the specific cause and/or method used for the destruction of the Twin Towers?

 

[bill smith]

What do you propose is the specific cause and/or method used for the destruction of the Twin Towers?

Now that would be a long post. I don't want to cause your hair to go white prematurely so maybe it's better if I keep my powder dry for now.

 

[stateofgrace]

I am going to ask you a simple question. I have asked it maybe six or seven times, and you've run from it each time.

Floors C1-13 collapse and fall on A97. Does it matter if the contents of C1, the bottom of the collapsing mass, are light or heavy?

Let's assume that C1 contains lightweight lawn furniture and C2 contains metal printers' plates weighting over a ton each. If you were sitting at your desk on A97, should you

a) say your prayers: you're as good as dead;

b) keep talking on the phone--Heiwa thinks you're perfectly safe;

c) be glad that C1 is the one with the lawn furniture.

One of these answers is correct.

I have found the Bill and Heiwa explanation as to what happens when massive weights fall on things.



Happens everytime.

 

[bill smith]

I have found the Bill and Heiwa explanation as to what happens when massive weights fall on things.



Happens everytime.

I find hat very cheesey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT5kI3zJFmA

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Now that would be a long post. I don't want to cause your hair to go white prematurely so maybe it's better if I keep my powder dry for now.

Doesn't have to be long at all. But I suppose the thread would wander off-topic, not that there really is one, so nevermind.

But just so you are aware, any suggestion that 9/11 was in any way the result of some sort of "inside job" is 100% impossible. You know at least that much, correct?

 

[Gamolon]

Assuming 110 one-acre floors-if they wre all reinforced uniformly then Yes- 110 acres.

Did you take out the core area for each floor?

 

[Heiwa]

Now that would be a long post. I don't want to cause your hair to go white prematurely so maybe it's better if I keep my powder dry for now.

Yes, better keep this thread to topic The Heiwa Challenge. Design a structure where part C one-way crushes part A ... by gravity after dropping C on A, etc. No powder of any kind is permitted - only structural elements + connections.

 

[Jackanory]

Yes, better keep this thread to topic The Heiwa Challenge. Design a structure where part C one-way crushes part A ... by gravity after dropping C on A, etc. No powder of any kind is permitted - only structural elements + connections.

For realistic effect, can we add C4, PE4 or thermite? You know - to see if it reacts like a CD?

 

[Heiwa]

I am going to ask you a simple question. I have asked it maybe six or seven times, and you've run from it each time.

Floors C1-13 collapse and fall on A97. Does it matter if the contents of C1, the bottom of the collapsing mass, are light or heavy?

Let's assume that C1 contains lightweight lawn furniture and C2 contains metal printers' plates weighting over a ton each. If you were sitting at your desk on A97, should you

a) say your prayers: you're as good as dead;

b) keep talking on the phone--Heiwa thinks you're perfectly safe;

c) be glad that C1 is the one with the lawn furniture.

One of these answers is correct.

Loose parts inside a structure of The Heiwa Challenge are generally not accepted, but if you feel they are necessary, pls put them in. Do you intend to fill upper part C with enriched uranium?

Simpler is to make the horizontal elements heavier (everywhere - part C shall be similar to part A) and reinforce the vertical supports and the connections accordingly. And then drop C on A and see if there is a one-way crush down of A. Please report result!

 

[bill smith]

Did you take out the core area for each floor?

No. So it would be a bit less I suppose.

 

[FineWine]

Loose parts inside a structure of The Heiwa Challenge are generally not accepted, but if you feel they are necessary, pls put them in. Do you intend to fill upper part C with enriched uranium?

Simpler is to make the horizontal elements heavier (everywhere - part C shall be similar to part A) and reinforce the vertical supports and the connections accordingly. And then drop C on A and see if there is a one-way crush down of A. Please report result!

Stop the gibberish. I am talking about a building--a specific building--collapsing. The top thirteen floors are falling on the floor directly under them.

Now, when floors C1-13 hit A97, does it matter if the contents of C1 are heavier than the contents of C2? I keep asking you and your parrot, but he runs away and you babble incoherently. Give me a straight answer.

Here's a related question: Do all thirteen collapsing floors hit A97, or does only C1 impact on it? You have implied in the past that C1 kisses A97 gently, while C2-13 float in midair. Clarify this matter for us.

 

[bill smith]

But if you acknowledge that my question has you utterly baffled, how do you presume to argue with engineers for whom it is childishly simple? Heiwa, who somehow received a degree in engineering, is hopelessly befuddled by it.

Try a thought experiment. What do you think happens when C1-13 fall on top of A97?

I have no time right now but was it the chairs on C1 and the big printer on C2 or was it the other way around ?