• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The Happiness Box

I could take your hypotheticals a bit more seriously if you answered the questions that you skipped in your other thread:

Roboramma said:
Click on the little arrow next to Roboramma's name
Click to expand...

Also, why do you post this stuff in the General Skepticism forum instead of the Religion and Philosophy forum?
 
"This reality we’re in now can be a terrible place, a place of absolute, bone-crushing horror," I say. "What’s the most horrible thing you can imagine? I bet I know. Watching your children die slowly and painfully of cancer while you stand by utterly helpless to remove their pain. I can save you that." I point at the box. "In the box, that can’t happen. In the box, Hailslaanesh, nothing bad can ever happen to you."
Click to expand...
If Hailslaanesh does not believe you, is it better to kill him or force him into the box in order to prevent his influence on others?
 
Roboramma said:
Jeff, rather than starting more pointless threads, why don't you respond to the criticism in the previous ones?

Just a suggestion. Because based on the OP, it seems you didn't even read what was written in your own threads.
Click to expand...
Because that would divert precious time from writing the next volley of self-indulgent utter poo.
 
Jeff... You have a gun pointed at your head...

What do you feel?

Fear?

Happiness?

Joy?

I bet fear.

Why when you have a soul? Why not die and become totally happy in heaven for all time? You and all your billions of soul-friends. Doing whatever you do in heaven for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever............................................................................

Aren´t you looking forward to this? Embrace death... Be happy when people die! Go to your friends funerals and laugh!

The soul isn´t worth much with a Glock pointed at your head, now is it?
 
I have a happiness box at work. It's where I keep the dark chocolate.
 
Wow.

Generally, when you're trying to prove that something exists, you don't argue in circles. Basically, in the previous story you suggested that people who have souls behave in X way, and people who do not have souls behave in Y way. You have attributed this behavior, but not proven it beyond all doubt. Let's call this step one.

In step two (this story), you claim that souls must exist because you observe what I previously called behavior X in step one.

Don't you see that your entire argument is based on arbitrary beliefs? Basically, before you personally could accept step one, you had to accept certain religious tenets to be true. Assume that your audience here doesn't necessarily feel the same way, and bolster your argument. You're not going to be very convincing, Jeff, as long as your premises are intellectually thin.
 
Last edited:
Jeff- aside from confusing the belief that we don't have souls with solipsism, I'm also amazed by how unethical the position your post seems to be advocating is. I (try to) treat other humans well because I believe I have an ethical duty to them to do so - regardless of whether I cease to exist when I die, have a soul that is rewarded for acting this way, or the Great Noodle Monster will make me burn in hell for all eternity for being nice to people He doesn't like, I would still argue that I have an ethical duty to treat other people well.

Are you suggesting that's better - more 'rational' - to only treat other people well because you believe you'll be punished after you die if you don't? That's not an ethical position - that's a pragmatic response to someone or something (like the policemen in your story) standing over you with a great big stick.
 
Odin said:
Jeff...

What do you consider the afterlife (or equivalent) to be like?
What you mean by "soul"?

It might help in the understanding of your posts.
Click to expand...

Why no insults, Odin? You sick or something?:D

I have no idea what the afterlife might be like.

I am examining a process in motion in an objective, unbiased, scientific manner---human behavior---and deriving what the basic postulates are behind that behavior.

Like the way examining particles in motion in an objective, unbiased, scientific manner leads to Newton's Equations of Motion.

Like the way examining charged particles in motion in an objective, unbiased, scientific manner leads to Maxwell's Equations of Electrodynamics.

And people ACT like they have souls, whether they know it or not! That's what they do.

The definition of soul people are using is this: An eternally existing, thinking and feeling structure that cannot be destroyed by any means whatsoever.

In practical terms, they are the same way dead as they are alive, and this soul is somehow immortal, incapable of being destroyed. (Which expresses itself in human society in the idea of impossible-to-escape justice, in the deeply held idea that you cannot escape the consequences of your actions.)

By examining human behavior, I can't precisely define what an afterlife might be like. Except that apparently you CAN be punished in the afterlife for using emotion drugs in your, oh, let's call it embodied, life.:) But don't ask me precisely how this punishment is carried out. I don't know.

So, the question to ask yourself with my OP is: Have I demonstrated that my theoretical father who thinks he has no soul is really acting like he has a soul, or not? The judgement is yours to make.

Would you do it, Odin? Would you leave your family for a Happiness Box, assuming you had a family? When everything you could ever want you know you're going to get in there? When you think reality is just a stream of sensory impulses into your brain, and one stream is just as good as another?


I am sorry I cannot reply to all posts, or explain in greater detail. There are two reasons for this.

---I flat don't have time. Sorry.

---I have discovered that when people resort to insults instead of calm discussion, it's because they are unable or unwilling to refute the argument. I have furthered discovered that people who resort to insults are people who's minds cannot be changed by any means whatsoever, and it is a pure waste of time to argue. Such people lack the capacity for intellectual honesty.

Like creationists. Their minds are made up, and they are going to cling to demonstrably false beliefs in the face of all logic and reason. Exactly like creationists, except with a different dogma. They will strain at any gnat, swallow any camel, willfully close their eyes and their minds to the obvious, to hold onto their beliefs.

Hmm. Odin, you come across like somebody who might be wondering if what I say might actually be true.

So please consider the following.

In a different post, I made the observation:"If there are no souls, the only rational thing to be is a sociopath." Because without souls, it then becomes possible to escape the consequences of your actions.

The behavior being exhibited in this thread is proof of that proposition.

Hiding behind their false names, they can and do perform actions they'd never have the guts to do if everybody knew who they really were. Because they can get away with it, you see. Nothing is restricting their behavior, NOTHING.

Because they can escape the consequences of their actions, they don't care how what they do might affect other people. Their behavior is entirely rational.

I'm sure these people who had parents who taught them to be polite, who sternly shook their finger at them and told them "You ought to be good!" But somehow, that's not working.

Food for thought, Odin.

Another random thought:

Somewhere in all these insults somebody actually, finally hit upon what would settle this argument for good and all. It was quite a startling thiing to see. (A lot of the people in here really do have minds, but they're certainly untrained.)

Soul experiments.

Laboratory detection of souls, in a reproducible, controlled manner.

That's what would settle this argument for good and all. If souls exist as real, physical entities, it should certainly be possible to detect them in a laboratory, like all the other real, physical entities.

A lot of people around here would like to see religion go away. Well, I can tell you how to do that. Most of the world's religions postulate the existence of a soul.

Demonstrate that souls cannot be found in the laboratory, and the world's religions will go away. It will be a slow process and take decades, but in the end they'll vanish. People are smart, in the end. They have to be. Evolution demands it.

Of course, the human race will vanish also, but that's a different problem.
 
As the one who suggested soul research, I hope you don't mind if I try to rope things in a bit, bring us back to square 1.

What is it about this "soul" which makes a person act the way you describe?

I mean, I could say "People deny they have floobers, but they act as though they do. And if they didn't, the only reasonable thing for them to do would be to murder each other."

(A floober is an alien-implanted device in the brain which blocks intense signals of fear, stress, paranoia, sexual jealousy, and rage.)

Since that's no basis for arguing that floobers are real (after all, I'd need to demonstrate that these signals should be surging thru everyone's brain in the first place, and that nothing else would naturally block them), I need a hushpuppy here.

Why do souls cause the behavior you describe?

Once we establish that, we can move on to other pressing questions.
 
Jeff Corkern said:
So, the question to ask yourself with my OP is: Have I demonstrated that my theoretical father who thinks he has no soul is really acting like he has a soul, or not? The judgement is yours to make.
Click to expand...

Jeff, the issue is that you don't have the authority to say "this is a soul, this is an example of how people with souls behave." You need to provide a reason for us to believe what you're saying. If you think you can somehow scientifically document the soul, I'm sure people around here would love to hear about it.

As-is, let me try explaining the fallacy of this type of argument again.

Suppose I was to declare that every person on earth had an invisible leprechaun in their head that causes him/her to shut his/her eyes when he/she sneezes. Of course, the leprechaun, like your soul, can't be found by a doctor, and doesn't show up on x-rays either, since he's invisible and magical. However, because everyone I know shuts his or her eyes when he or she sneezes, the leprechaun must be there.

Doesn't work so well, right? That's because I've created a scenario--that if X is present, then we will see Y--and I don't have the authority to do so. The only reason you would believe this leprechaun story is if you chose to trust me. I need some other proof to make the argument work.

On the other hand, if you're willing to except this type of logic as sound, you have a soul, I have a leprechaun. His name is Yancy, and he likes to tapdance.
 
Jess said:
The only reason you would believe this leprechaun story is ....
Click to expand...
Jess, please, let's not go down that road.

Trust me, you'll never come back!

:D <Darts behind an emoticon, hoping that no one from the Sagan's Dragon thread has noticed the long absence.>
 
Piggy said:
Jess, please, let's not go down that road.

Trust me, you'll never come back!

:D <Darts behind an emoticon, hoping that no one from the Sagan's Dragon thread has noticed the long absence.>
Click to expand...

Well, personally, I hope that everyone here is willing to accept invisible tapdancing leprechauns as perfectly ridiculous. If not, maybe I can make something of it and get a tax deduction down the road... :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom