"THE GROUND TRUTH" by John Farmer

jaydeehess said:
Would it be proper to say that, in general, Farmer's claim is that there was incompetance being covered up in the gov't reaction to the events of 911?
Click to expand...

In some degree, yes. Farmer describes the era from the end of the Cold War to 9/11 as a "collapse of Government competence", leading to a bureaucratic apparatus of irrelevant rules, insufficient protocols and the like. His primer example for the consequence of this collapse is the NORAD reaction on 9/11, but there are other examples like Dick Clarke´s videoconference, which in Farmer´s opinion didn´t have any significant effect on what happened that day. IMO, Farmer in general echoes the results of the 9/11 CR. He just re-phrases them more harshly (and adds detail, of course).
As to Farmer´s comments on the aftermath of 9/11, it´s more a mixture of cover-up and a pinch of denial.
It´s a worth reading book. I just expected there to be more new information.
 
progge said:
In some degree, yes. Farmer describes the era from the end of the Cold War to 9/11 as a "collapse of Government competence", leading to a bureaucratic apparatus of irrelevant rules, insufficient protocols and the like. .
Click to expand...

Thanks progge. I am 'discussing' 911 with a conspiracist on another forum and he brought up Farmer's book. I don't have it and neither does our local library. I have read what others have said about it and the excerpts that have been quoted.
Your above quote from Farmer is exactly what I have been saying to this conspiracist as my take on what Farmer at least suggests in the book. If "collapse of Government competence", is a direct quote from the book could you, please(a bother I know) tell me what chapter (or page) it can be found in.
 
jaydeehess said:
Thanks progge. I am 'discussing' 911 with a conspiracist on another forum and he brought up Farmer's book. I don't have it and neither does our local library. I have read what others have said about it and the excerpts that have been quoted.
Your above quote from Farmer is exactly what I have been saying to this conspiracist as my take on what Farmer at least suggests in the book. If "collapse of Government competence", is a direct quote from the book could you, please(a bother I know) tell me what chapter (or page) it can be found in.
Click to expand...

It wasn’t a direct quote. Here’s a direct quote from p. 8 et seq. (= Introduction):

The response on the ground on 9/11 was the trailing consequence of those post-Cold War policy debates, the dysfunctional choices they produced, and the government-wide failure to interdict the 9/11-plot. It is the most powerful challenge to the claims of the departing Clinton administration that it had successfully “reinvented government” to meet post-Cold War challenges and that terrorism had been its highest national security priority, and of the Bush administration that it had mobilized to counter the threat. Given the state of national preparedness that I shall describe, and the way the national defense was conducted, those claims simply cannot be true. The failure to anticipate the attacks of 9/11 was, indeed, as the Commission concluded, a “failure of imagination”, but it was more than that; it was a collapse of competence, and an exposure of the continuing need for fundamental change in the ways in which departments of government are permitted to function.
Click to expand...

Cf. p. 290 (= ch. 4):

Taken as a whole, the government’s response to the emerging threat of terrorist attack was a stunning collapse of competence; 9/11 was its trailing consequence.
Click to expand...

However, better don’t argue about a book you haven’t read.;) Bad enough that some truthers do.
 
He is backing away from farmer's book. He has not read it either, so we are on equal footing. When I stated that Farmer was saying that there was incompetance displayed by gov't on 911 he stated that such was not the case.

Obviously he is incorrect. Of course as a conspiricist is is soley and only interested in the fact that Farmer says that the 911CR was somewhat incomplete.
 
Thank god the Department of Homeland Security was created to avoid such future incompetencies.
 
ImANiceGuy said:
Thank god the Department of Homeland Security was created to avoid such future incompetencies.
Click to expand...

Yea, I suppose intelligent discussion and narratives of 9/11 and its lead up that don't include an "inside job" complete with nanothermite and faked DNA can be quite boring.
 
In light of what Farmer actually says I asked The poster on the BV if e is now throwing Farmer under the bus. He so far will not answer preferring to try to change the subject(OMG where did he get that tactic from?).
 
ImANiceGuy said:
Thank god the Department of Homeland Security was created to avoid such future incompetencies.
Click to expand...

And how many more terrorist attacks have occured on American Soil since 9/11???


Hummm...............


1.....nao.........2....nah,..........7......nah, Oh, thats right NOT ONE!!

Thanks for playing.
 
farmer: "we agreed not to tell the truth'??!!!WTF?!!

The senior counsel to the 9/11 Commission – John Farmer – says that the government agreed not to tell the truth about 9/11, echoing the assertions of fellow 9/11 Commission members who concluded that the Pentagon were engaged in deliberate deception about their response to the attack.

Farmer served as Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (officially known as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States), and is also a former New Jersey Attorney General.




John Farmer

Farmer’s book about his experiences working for the Commission is entitled The Ground Truth: The Story Behind America’s Defense on 9/11, and is set to be released tomorrow.

The book unveils how “the public had been seriously misled about what occurred during the morning of the attacks,” and Farmer himself states that “at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened.”
 
noah said:
The senior counsel to the 9/11 Commission – John Farmer – says that the government agreed not to tell the truth about 9/11, echoing the assertions of fellow 9/11 Commission members who concluded that the Pentagon were engaged in deliberate deception about their response to the attack.

Farmer served as Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (officially known as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States), and is also a former New Jersey Attorney General.




John Farmer

Farmer’s book about his experiences working for the Commission is entitled The Ground Truth: The Story Behind America’s Defense on 9/11, and is set to be released tomorrow.

The book unveils how “the public had been seriously misled about what occurred during the morning of the attacks,” and Farmer himself states that “at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened.”
Click to expand...

and what does he say about 9/11 twoofs? Oh that you are full of crap and wrong. Doh.

datamining quotes is a wonderful thing.. it would help if you actually READ any of the quotes in FULL CONTEXT
 
Maybe noah doesn't understand.

If Dad tells you when you are visiting Grandma in the nursing home that she looks awful but you should say she's looking great, you don't walk in and go "W T F GRANDMA?!".
 
noah said:
The senior counsel to the 9/11 Commission – John Farmer – says that the government agreed not to tell the truth about 9/11, echoing the assertions of fellow 9/11 Commission members who concluded that the Pentagon were engaged in deliberate deception about their response to the attack.
Farmer served as Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (officially known as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States), and is also a former New Jersey Attorney General.




John Farmer

Farmer’s book about his experiences working for the Commission is entitled The Ground Truth: The Story Behind America’s Defense on 9/11, and is set to be released tomorrow.

The book unveils how “the public had been seriously misled about what occurred during the morning of the attacks,” and Farmer himself states that “at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened.”
Click to expand...

I now bring your attention to the quotes in post 24 above.

Now using all of these quotes together what do you conclude is Farmer's assertion about what was not the 'truth'?
 
Last edited:
Just found a small, but interesting story which I haven´t heard about before, and had the desire to share it. Sorry if this is common knowledge already.

Anyway, remember United´s in-flight entertainment programm channel 9? Passengers can listen to ATC transmissions via channel 9.
One passenger on UAL Flight 1523, Michael A. McNeil, witnessed the loss of United 93.

On September 11, 2001, McNeil, a free lance television engineer-sports was a passenger on United Airline UAL Flight 1523 from LaGuardia New York Airport to Denver in seat 6A, when he overheard the flight communications from his plane, Cleveland Center and UAL Flight 93; sometime after 9:00. He had been Iistening with earphones since he defarted. He had been in New York working the U.S. Tennis Open in Flushing Meadows, New York.
While listening, he heard that New York area airspace was closed. He heard two ten second bursts of unintelligible yelling and altercation. Cleveland Center asked for a repeat and identification. Cleveland Center began a roll call of aircraft in the air space. He next heard what sounded like, "I" or "We have a bomb." The piiot or co-pilot on UAL 93 must have had keyed open the microphone. Cleveland Center said, "Come back." A Continental flight crew member responded with an interpretation, "He said he had a bomb." Cleveland Center began
to instruct planes away from the area. The crew of his flight turned off the passenger monitoring system.
Click to expand...
Source
 
triforcharity said:
And how many more terrorist attacks have occured on American Soil since 9/11???


Hummm...............


1.....nao.........2....nah,..........7......nah, Oh, thats right NOT ONE!!

Thanks for playing.
Click to expand...

Fort Hood Texas, november 5th 2009. 13 killed in mass shooting attack by islamic terrorist.
 
Last edited:
I think way too much is being made of the fact you could listen in on ATC traffic.

Firstly, as pointed out it relies on the pilot leaving it open - something that couldn't be relied on.

More importantly, Atta's transmissions were at 0824 and UA175 wasn't hijacked until 0842 (at the earliest). What was the message meant to be in Atta's transmission? "18 minutes till go"?

Finally, the surface explanation for Atta's transmission - a message to the passengers - makes much more sense and is in keeping with the other flights (for example the fake bomb on UA93).

The objective - clearly - was for the hijackers to convince passengers and ATC that they were undertaking a regular hijacking - flying to an airport, landing, and negotiating. By the time anyone worked out what was going on it would be too late. There's plenty anecdotal evidence they went to great lengths to prevent passengers seeing the pilots were dead. There's plenty of reports of them directly telling passengers they had a bomb and to cooperate, going to the airport, etc...

The "secret message to other hijackers" explanation just makes no sense whatsoever.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
Fort Hood Texas, november 5th 2009. 13 killed in mass shooting attack by islamic terrorist.
Click to expand...

this was not a terrorist attack. it was a lone nut acting out of insanity and religious stupidity.

terrorist attacks are coordinated with terrorist groups.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
Membership in a group is not a requirement to be a terrorist.

Sorry, Parky.
Click to expand...

never heard of a "lone wolf"? this is what intelligent people are classifying the Fort Hood guy as.

he was not a member of any terror organization or took orders from any terror groups. his act was his decision, he acted alone, planned alone, and provided the weapon to himself.

hence...lone wolf.

....ok..I did some further reading, and it does appear that the Govt. has for some time classified these people as "lone wolf terrorists". they act alone and outside of any command structure. the most linkage they have is inspiration.

point is, can the attack on Fort Hood be blamed on any known groups? no. no more then the murder of Yitzhak Rabin can be blamed on Likud....or the assassination of JFK can be blamed on the Cubans.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom