The Gospel

[lostnick3]

Tell ya what, lostnick3. How about you and kurious_kathy thumb-wrestle for it?

I've got you something to thumb wrestle dangling.

This thread takes great glee in shooting down sky pilot's. there is a number of single post tries that burned and left the thread.

for the past two or three days there has little opposition to skeptics who are nonbelievers. I have been trying to fill that void with a little critical thinking, and as it appears very little. But isn't that why we're here to learn and grow?

 

[kurious_kathy]

Because it would just be awful if anyone found out that science is what's keeping you alive and not your imaginary friend.

Is that really your picture delphi? I was going to use mine but people are so insulting sometimes I thought I shouldn't.

 

[Nex]

I've got you something to thumb wrestle dangling.

Ew.

This thread takes great glee in shooting down sky pilot's.

Well, sky pilots can't really fly if their machine's missin' a few parts, y'know. No shooting necessary.

there is a number of single post tries that burned and left the thread.

My guess is they left out of disdain and/or boredom. I've dropped more than a few threads from my subscriptions for those reasons, truth be told.

for the past two or three days there has little opposition to skeptics who are nonbelievers.

The majority here are nonbelievers -- naturally there will be more posts from that perspective here. Go to ChristianForums.com if you want the scales tipped the other way.

I have been trying to fill that void with a little critical thinking, and as it appears very little.

I think you're doing well, actually. Did I mention I really appreciated your conceding a point a couple pages back? I did. Rarely see that 'round here, by believers or non.

Of course, critical thinkers can and do come to different conclusions on different topics sometimes. This is one of them.

But isn't that why we're here to learn and grow?

Exactly.

 

[kurious_kathy]

As a couple people have asked already, Kathy, what do you think happened to people who lived in a time before the spread of Christianity? Is an Aztec who could not possibly have learned about Christianity because they were on another continent with no significant trade going to hell?

These are all very tough questions. I like the way this article says it on the subject Does the Bible really teach that people are predestined to go to either heaven or hell? written by Dan Vander Lugt...
Only the eternal, infinite Creator is capable of reconciling both sides of this mystery. As Paul wrote in his letter to the Romans:
Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and His paths beyond tracing out! "Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor?" "Who has ever given to God, that God should repay him?" For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory for ever! Amen (Romans 11:33-36).

Here's a link to the whole article if you would care to read it.
http://www.rbc.org/questions/answer...destination+And+Election&file=predestined.xml

 

[lostnick3]

Nex
thank you. I'll try to keep the rants short today.

 

[UrsulaV]

These are all very tough questions. I like the way this article says it on the subject Does the Bible really teach that people are predestined to go to either heaven or hell? written by Dan Vander Lugt...
Only the eternal, infinite Creator is capable of reconciling both sides of this mystery.

It's amazing that you said all that and still failed completely to answer my question.

So you don't know, then?

See, if I was gonna join a religion, I'd really want these key bits ironed out first, like "Am I worshipping someone who's such a bastard that he condemns people to eternal torment who never had a chance at getting out of it?" 'Cos no way would I worship a God who's that morally bankrupt. That's just sick.

And why do fetuses get a free pass, when Aztecs don't? They're both in the exact same boat of not having the opportunity to hear about Jesus. How come you know about the babies, but don't know about Aztecs?

 

[Ducky]

I think this little angel is cute. I don't really care if you think so. Do you think I like looking at the picture of your spine? I have metal in mine too, but I don't want to show it to people.

Difference between my avatar and yours is that mine is real. THough I notice you changed your avatar. Interesting.

Why don't you want to show pictures of your metal in your spine to people? IT is a wonderful testament to science saving your life and healing you.

Or are you ashamed that it wasn't God's miracle?

 

[Genesius]

It's true that scripture does teach everything outside of Christ leads to death. So if I were you,I would just like to make this suggestion... it is better to believe than not to believe.

That's your opinion. If your god is really there, that would be true. Of course, being skeptics we need more than just your word.

There have been many people from all different walks in life that have come to faith in Christ. Some people that you would never even think it could be possible they are saved. Let God be the judge!

What about people like Dan Barker, who had a strong faith in god and lost it, preferring a life of reason instead? Read his story in the link I gave you and tell me he's worse off now that he was before.

Face it, Kathy. People find life-changing experiences everywhere, not just in religion. And there are quite a few who find positive life-changing experiences in religions other than yours. From where I sit your faith doesn't look so special.

I believe God knows which ones have love and are capable of truely repenting or having a heart for God. I myself want to learn to love what God loves and stay away from what God hates which is sin. Love the sinner, but not the sin. Even good people sin, do they not?

I like Robert Heinlein's definition of sin (I'm doing this from memory, so please pardon me if I don't get it word perfect): The only sin lies in hurting another person unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense. Hurting yourself isn't sinful, just stupid.

Sure, everyone sins from time to time. The difference is, when I do it I ask forgiveness of the people I hurt. I don't bother taking about it to a giant invisible friend in the sky, because I know I'll never get an answer. And in my way, nobody needs to spend eternity being tortured for what they did in life.

Sorry, but as long as you and your god believe in Hell and believe that anyone deserves to go there, you and your god don't live up to my standard of morality.

 

[lostnick3]

Difference between my avatar and yours is that mine is real. THough I notice you changed your avatar. Interesting.

Why don't you want to show pictures of your metal in your spine to people? IT is a wonderful testament to science saving your life and healing you.

Or are you ashamed that it wasn't God's miracle?

at the risk of derailment, is that an artifical disc those pins are holding?
what part of the spine is it,

 

[delphi_ote]

Is that really your picture delphi? I was going to use mine but people are so insulting sometimes I thought I shouldn't.

Yes, it is. I feel it adds a little more "Delphi" to my posts.

Only use your picture if you have thick skin and a sense of humor about yourself.

 

[Roadtoad]

I think a split is in order.

Check it out here.

 

[Roadtoad]

Damn. Just when I finish writing one of my better posts, I wind up with NO ONE TO READ THE DAMNED THING!

 

[lostnick3]

I think a split is in order.

no no no

no more bad i mean really bad musical cartoon videos

my brain remained twisted up until this morning

go sniff for taco's you lane hogging amphibian

 

[LotusMegami]

It depends on how attractive you are, too.

Delphi is definately hot. The way he looks into the camera with those piercing eyes...

I need to get off the computer and find myself a life.

Here's a twist, Kathy: if children all go to heaven, and heathen adults go to hell whether they had a chance to accept Christ or not, then why would it not be a good thing to kill the child of a heathen?

Much more efficient than conversion. Just kill the babies of non-Christians, and send them all to heaven.

 

[Freethinker]

at the risk of derailment, is that an artifical disc those pins are holding?
what part of the spine is it,

If you derail this thread, it would probably go back to the original topic.


Kathy, the subject of babies and heaven or hell has been pondered upon by theologians and bible scholars for over 1000 years, with no real consensus. I believe most don't think they go to heaven, but don't believe god would send them to hell. Augustine came with (I think) the idea of limbo to resolve this conundrum, but most of us here just don't believe any of it. This was a real sticking point in my realization that most of religion was made up by men who weren't very good at coming up with consistent stories.
You should use care when quoting Paul. He was pretty radical and pretty well created Christianity after Christ's alleged death by offering an easier path to salvation than Judaism. There is no evidence that anyone ever told him this stuff, and it's probable that he made it up to make recruiting easier.

 

[Freethinker]

at the risk of derailment, is that an artifical disc those pins are holding?
what part of the spine is it,

Nick, check out Fowl's comments in a recent commentary on the main JREF page. Discusses his hardware and the reason for it.

 

[Ducky]

at the risk of derailment, is that an artifical disc those pins are holding?
what part of the spine is it,

Thoracic. My 9th Thoracic vertibrae was destroyed by cancer. You can read about it in the article I wrote for Randi's commentary, or in this thread which alse features a less than politically correct rant paper about it, or you can check my blog.

To be clear, the "artificial disc" you see is actually a bone graft (taken from a rib that was removed and a piece of pelvis) with a titanium cage surrounding it, and the 8 screws and 2 rods (also titanium) are fusing it together.

 

[Ducky]

Nick, check out Fowl's comments in a recent commentary on the main JREF page. Discusses his hardware and the reason for it.

Has some good CT scans too. Not for the easily queazy.

 

[kurious_kathy]

If you derail this thread, it would probably go back to the original topic.


Kathy, the subject of babies and heaven or hell has been pondered upon by theologians and bible scholars for over 1000 years, with no real consensus. I believe most don't think they go to heaven, but don't believe god would send them to hell. Augustine came with (I think) the idea of limbo to resolve this conundrum, but most of us here just don't believe any of it. This was a real sticking point in my realization that most of religion was made up by men who weren't very good at coming up with consistent stories.
You should use care when quoting Paul. He was pretty radical and pretty well created Christianity after Christ's alleged death by offering an easier path to salvation than Judaism. There is no evidence that anyone ever told him this stuff, and it's probable that he made it up to make recruiting easier.

This is where I strongly disagree with you. Paul received revelation from Christ which broought him from darkness to light. Spirit filled believers aren't able to make up those kinds of stories. Paul truely was the 12th Apostle. If you don't want to believe it, I would say you have a problem. God's word is true and the sooner people quit denying it the better!

 

[kurious_kathy]

Sure, everyone sins from time to time. The difference is, when I do it I ask forgiveness of the people I hurt. I don't bother taking about it to a giant invisible friend in the sky, because I know I'll never get an answer.

Well maybe if you let yourself think about it, you would realize there is more you believe in scripture than you realize. One good example is what I perceived you just said...Do unto others as you would have done unto you!
And believe me someday you will meet your maker and know the way you judged others is the way you will be judged.