• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The Gospel

Atlas said:
Why do I read these threads? It's OOOoh, isn't Odin smart?... Or, or Woww! That Yahweh sure is somethin.

But us working gods, we're just blue collar nobodies. "A little higher Atlas... Could you move sky a little for me... Thanks, talk to you in an eon."

Ya know what? I don't care. I'm gonna drink beer and watch pre-season football. Sometimes I wish there really was a hell so I could say, "To hell, with you all," and really mean it. Alas, there is only this cheap precursor underworld, Hades.

See you around.
Click to expand...
That reminds me--quit picking on Quincy!


[/inside joke]
[/derail]
 
If Behe is correct and there is a God, the Christian answer is that the almighty God, who has reveled himself to us in his three persons, has existed for eternity already. He has always existed. He was not created, he is the creator of all things seen and unseen. Before his creation there was nothing but him. He spoke creation into existence.
Click to expand...
The biggest problem you have with demonstrating intelligent design, if you are going to insist it is the Christian God revealed to us in the Bible, is that this particular God doesn't appear to be very intelligent at all.


But lets give you ID for the sake of argument. Then we can move on to the claim that this God is loving and just, which it obviously isn't.
 
WHAT DOES GOD SAY ABOUT THEOCCULT?

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. You dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us: but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood. 1 John 4:1-6

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Matthew 7: 15-16

"Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Christ, and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away form the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. Matt 24:4-13
At that time if anyone says to you,"Look here is the Christ," or,"There he is!" do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect if that were possible. Matthew 24: 23-24

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping, for if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgement: if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on it's ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness and seven others: if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly: and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)-if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgement, while continuing their punishment. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. 2 Peter 2: 1-10

The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whos consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer. If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives tales: rather, train yourself to be godly. For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance, (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. 1 Timothy4: 1-10


When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? Isaiah 8:19

The Egyptians will lose heart, and will bring their plans to nothing: they will consult their idols and the spirits of the dead, the mediums and the spiritists. I will hand them over to the power of the cruel master, and the fierce king will rule over them," declares the Lord, the Lord Almighty. Isaiah 19: 3-4

All the councel you have received has only worn you out! Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make predicitions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you. Surely they are like stubble: the fire will burn them up. They cannot even save themselves from the power of the flame. Here are no coals to warm anyone: here is no fire to sit by. Isaiah 47: 13-14


What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you? You want something but don"t get it. You kill and covet, but cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God. When you ask, you do not receive, because you have wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on pleasures. You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. Or do you think Scripture says without reason that the spirit he caused to live in us envies intensely? But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4: 1-7

I myself have been convicted by the Lord of believing false doctrines in the past, and have repented. I have chosen to believe God and surrender my will to His. The truth is,"JESUS". This is really my own conviction and testimony that I'm sharing. I'm not trying to preach at everyone but when I came to faith I needed this info., and He has changed my life!
 
fowlsound said:
Checking the IP addresses should show if they're the same computer. My theory was it's her husband or minister responding when she couldn't.
Click to expand...

Just because you don't want to hear from me doesn't mean others aren't interested?
 
Kathy, just because something is written in a bloodthirsty Bronze age book doesn't mean we should heed it. This is the same book that claims rabbits chew cud, insects have four legs, and that pi=3.
 
kurious_kathy said:
WHAT DOES GOD SAY ABOUT THEOCCULT?
I myself have been convicted by the Lord of believing false doctrines in the past, and have repented. I have chosen to believe God and surrender my will to His. The truth is,"JESUS". This is really my own conviction and testimony that I'm sharing. I'm not trying to preach at everyone but when I came to faith I needed this info., and He has changed my life!
Click to expand...

Goody for you.

I have chosen to believe in beer and surrender my will to its frothy goodness. The truth is, "Beer". This is really my own conviction and testimony that I'm sharing. I'm not trying to preach at everyone (because then all my beer will be drunk by others) but when I started to drink I needed this info., and beer has changed my life! *belch*
 
Is it not possible that you changed your own life? I do not know what changed, but I am convinced that it was your own will that made the change. Religion may have been a useful tool that let you forgive yourself, “let go let god” and such. The community it frequently provides could also have helped. But nothing you have said points to the divine.

As far as quoting large sections of the bible to this forum, you might as will have been reading nursery rhymes. Many of have read it all before. We just give it little to no credence.
 
My pet is my pet. My goat is my goat. But ye of little faith have no idea how my goat is my pet. "My Pet Goat", page 666.
 
Christian Dude said:
Although Behe was born into a Roman Catholic family, it is my understanding that he does not attend church or follow his inherited faith.
Click to expand...
So that rules him out from being a Christian then? Not openly attending church? Here's a follow-up question for you: If Michael Behe was a devout Hindu or follower of voodoo, and proposed ID to the world, would you still agree with him?
Christian Dude said:
I would disagree that his argument is unconvincing. His "own little circle of believers" is growing daily as people, laymen and scientists alike, investigate his claims. He is not the only scientist that has convincing arguments for ID as you know. Just because, at this point in history, scientists that accept ID as the source of all life are a minority, does not dismiss them as invalid. Since when does a majority have to agree to make something true? The majority of educated people on earth, at one point in history, thought the earth was flat among many other ideas that have been proven wrong. Does that mean the earth was flat until the majority of people decided it was a sphere?
Click to expand...
Ah, the Argument from Persecution. They must be right because the "mainstream" says they are not. The thing about this is that those in the past, such as Gallileo, who were reviled for holding dissenting views that subsequently permeated to the world, is that they were proved right by science! Behe has yet to have that happen, and his arguments are being refuted more and more each day.

Christian Dude said:
If Behe is correct and there is a God, the Christian answer is that the almighty God, who has reveled himself to us in his three persons, has existed for eternity already. He has always existed. He was not created, he is the creator of all things seen and unseen. Before his creation there was nothing but him. He spoke creation into existence.
Click to expand...
This is your invention of events, for which you only have your pastor's hearsay evidence (if that). It comforts you to think that things happened this way. The evidence doesn't back this up, unfortunately. Time to go to some basic lessons in physics, astronomy, and cosmology.
Christian Dude said:
I know it is a very abstract concept to grasp that he has always existed. Yes that does mean he existed for eternity before he created anything, and that he will exist for eternity after he created all that exists in the physical and angelic realm.
Click to expand...
Dude, meet Reality. Reality, this is Dude. Time you both met and got acquainted. ;)
 
Kimpatsu said:
This is the same book that claims . . . that pi=3.
Click to expand...

Yes, because a chronicle using imprecise, round numbers to describe a round object is the same thing as making a mathematical statement that π = 3. :rolleyes:

Hint: Just because the other side uses bad arguments doesn't entitle you to do the same.
 
Kurious_Kathy...

You have already been informed at least once on this thread that continuing to "answer" your critics by quoting lengthy passages from a book which we do not acknowledge as a reliable authority, is a very ineffectual debating method. You have ignored the questions posed to you, and declined to answer those who have asked for your take on some of the bible verses that trouble us.

In fact, I would venture to suggest that all you are achieving here is that you are convincing non-Christians of how right they are to have rejected Christianity.

Think about that. In your fumbling efforts to witness for Christ, you are simply driving a bunch of otherwise open-minded people further and further from all that you hold dear.

Have you considered the possibility that YOU are, in fact, one of the "false prophets"? You seem to be doing a super-duper, bang-up job of driving people away from the "truth" of the gospel!
 
jjramsey said:
Yes, because a chronicle using imprecise, round numbers to describe a round object is the same thing as making a mathematical statement that π = 3. :rolleyes:

Hint: Just because the other side uses bad arguments doesn't entitle you to do the same.
Click to expand...
But a perfect god wouldn't BE imprecise in a document he dictated, now, would he...? :rolleyes:
Of course, if you accept that the Bible is not of divine origin, then its use is only as a curiousity.
 
Kimpatsu said:
But a perfect god wouldn't BE imprecise in a document he dictated, now, would he...? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Why not? There is no need for anything but round numbers if the only goal is to give an idea of the size of the thing. Also, not all inerrantists take the "God dictated it" route. Most go for something like the Holy Spirit keeping the Bible free from outright error, but allowing the Bible writers enough freedom that the cultural and literary conventions of their times show through. By that standard, it is simply silly to expect any more precision that the original readers of the various books of the Bible would have expected.

If you want to argue that the Bible isn't inerrant, you have plenty of ammunition, even when you play fair and don't make questionable assumptions that even the inerrantists don't make. Why then bother with the cheap shots?
 
What's with the cheap shot? I'm just pointing out the bleeding obvious.
I.e., that god can't do maths... :p
 
Palimpsest said:
Hanging from an ash tree for nine days and sacrificing an eye have given you great insight... ;)
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I did not forsee that Kathy would return and spam bible verses, which should have been obvious. :D
 
jjramsey said:
... By that standard, it is simply silly to expect any more precision that the original readers of the various books of the Bible would have expected.
Click to expand...
Actually, the readers and listeners expected their God and his prophets to be purveyors of the truth. They expected their God was passing important information through the prophets.

"3 and a little" is the truth they would have been right to expect because that is the truth. They accepted 3 because they relied on God and His Word for their truth much like KK and CD.

They'll take what they're told is truth, inspired truth, the word of God, and they'll defend it even when they know it is wrong. You have to invent new understandings of God to explain why He is right to leave you in ignorance. How is this any different than the Deceiver?
 
The real acid test seems to be: Does the person believe in a talking snake?

If Kurious and Dude believe in a talking snake - why go on?
 
Fengirl said:
Kurious_Kathy...

In fact, I would venture to suggest that all you are achieving here is that you are convincing non-Christians of how right they are to have rejected Christianity.

Think about that. In your fumbling efforts to witness for Christ, you are simply driving a bunch of otherwise open-minded people further and further from all that you hold dear.

Have you considered the possibility that YOU are, in fact, one of the "false prophets"? You seem to be doing a super-duper, bang-up job of driving people away from the "truth" of the gospel!
Click to expand...

I was merely sharing how Jesus turned me around from my pagan beliefs? Others have asked for scripture to back it up. Others question what other info besides the Bible I am able to share this witness. This was a supernatural experience for me before I started reading the Bible. I am saying there weren't any absolutes for me till I started to ask God through his word?

I felt I was incomplete outside of Christ. Now I don"t. And I am not close minded at all! On the contrary I think we all have different things that make us grow in life. Knowlege and education are wonderful things. But I felt they were only half of it.

And I never said I was a prophet! Please don't put words in my mouth. I am really trying to ask objectively to others why they are offended by the Gospel?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom