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The Genesis Seal

Kingfisher2926 said:
Not so. The pattern works mainly for letters that are not only widely separated, but not (as with that pesky Bible Code) at equidistant intervals. In these circumstances, the grammar and syntax of the source text have no direct relevance so that meaningful patterns should be unlikely to arise.
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Please provide the math to prove otherwise. Frankly, I don't believe you. It's irrational to think that grammar and syntax--which dictate the order of words in sentances--and spelling--which dictates the order of letters in words--don't play a role in the order of the letters. The fact that you use whatever interval is most convenient for you does not negate the biase inherent in your methodology, but rather provides yet one more biase to it.

But I have learned to be content with the idea that the first few words of Genesis embody extraordinary properties that really shouldn't be there.
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Why? Why should Genesis--a fictional acount cobbled together by multiple sources--have ANY special properties? And what about the examples on Page 2 of this thread, which show that The God Delusion and Flim-Flam share similar properties? I'm sure The Origin of the Species, Principles of Geology, On THe Origin of the Phyla, and many other texts would have similar results using your algerithm. Why are those found in Genesis special, but those found in all of the other texsts on Earth irrelevant?

As I am an individual rather than a team, I do not have enough time to look for comparison samples.
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And here's the answer: it's special because you decided it was before you started. Not exactly an objective way to look at it.

As for new knowledge, I may eventually reach a point where I can show pretty conclusively that the Genesis Seal has been noticed at a number of points in human history. The proof is to be seen in some momentous historical episodes, as well as expanded biblical narratives, and even a range of well-known mediaeval literature. However, I will not be drawn on these issues until my audience is sufficiently familiar with all aspects of the Genesis Seal.
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What this tells me is that you're not interested in an honest discussion. You're hear to teach us idiots what's what. No thanks--ever since I taught a professor how to use her own machine I've abandoned the idea that learning means uncritical acceptance of what some authority tells you. If you have something worth saying, it will stand up to honest examination. If not, it won't. The fact that you're so obviously unwilling to modify your beliefs when new facts are presented--the fact that you so obviously are unwilling to SEE the new facts--demonstrates that your idea does not. Enjoy your delusions; I doubt you'll get much traction here.
 
slingblade said:
That's after the corn dogs.

Or maybe during....
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ftr, I just created a grid using the start of the babylonian creation story the "Enuma Elish"
as it turns out its a hotbed of licentious sex coupled with girls names
I am certainly not deliberately projecting into it
:rolleyes:
my favourites sentences so far are
"anyone get the wanton tart Nadeen yet"
and
"I saw the snot ray"
:D
 
Marduk said:
ftr, I just created a grid using the start of the babylonian creation story the "Enuma Elish"
as it turns out its a hotbed of licentious sex coupled with girls names
I am certainly not deliberately projecting into it
:rolleyes:
my favourites sentences so far are
"anyone get the wanton tart Nadeen yet"
and
"I saw the snot ray"
:D
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I know a Nadeen. She is a wanton tart. I have a strong suspicion they all are...
 
Kingfisher2926 said:
My fellow skeptics,
I would like to introduce to you a topic that will not be familiar – completely new territory. It is, in effect, the World’s most ancient wordsearch puzzle, and I call it the Genesis Seal. What I am looking for is some well thought-through, rational feedback (though I expect some smart-Alec will throw scorn on even that prospect).

This puzzle takes several forms, the first of which can be seen as an 8x8 grid in the illustration, below. The grid is populated with the first 64 Hebrew letters from the start of Genesis, which is all of the first verse and just the first 36 letters of Genesis 1:2. All those letters are entered into the grid in proper sequence, following the converging path shown by heavier internal borders. The sequence starts in the right-hand (or ‘E’) corner, proceeding upwards and to the left initially. It is clear, therefore, that I am not employing any sleight of hand. In fact, one of the reasons this possibility commended itself is that Genesis 1:1 consists of 28 letters (the precise size of the grid’s perimeter), with word breaks after 14, 21 and 28 letters. The perimeter is, of course, formed from four blocks, each of 7 consecutive letters.
Before I launch into a review of the ‘emergent’ content of the Genesis Seal, I should like to justify an unusual characteristic of the text in this grid. Those of you who are familiar with Modern Hebrew text will know that out of the 22 Hebrew letters there are five in particular that are written with an alternative shape when they occur at the end of a word. In the context of the Genesis Seal grid, those letters retain their initial/medial forms since, in principle, any letter in the grid may participate in any position in an emergent word.
Here is the G1 view of the Genesis Seal, with particular words and letters highlighted:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_544634f0341f84319c.png[/qimg]

And here are some of the immediate reasons for supposing the text of Genesis 1:1-2 was composed to exhibit hidden inner structure:
1. All 9 copies of the letter vav (blue backgrounds) are confined to the lower half of the grid, against odds of 164:1.
2. Five of those letters have assembled into an unlikely ‘Y’ configuration, precisely on the grid’s vertical axis of bi-lateral symmetry. This would greatly extend the (im)probability of 164:1, though by just how much I cannot guess.
3. The surprising first new literary product of this grid, shown as letters on golden backgrounds, is the word betzer (gold), where the final two letters of the last word of Gen 1:1 meet the first letter of the verse.
4. With the addition of the very next letter, the unlikely second product is aur (light), shown with letters in yellow octagonal frames. Since this is also in the Eastern corner, it combines with ‘gold’ to create a golden sunrise. And both those words have their origin in the six-letter first word that means ‘In the beginning’.
5. Ultimately, against odds of about 25:1, there is a second emergent copy of light, this one ascending where the first is descending.
6. Even stranger, the three letters of the source text squeezed between the middle letters of the two emergent lights, spell choshek (darkness). This comes directly from the text: And darkness was upon the face of the deep.

My own judgment is that the effects described here are unlikely to have arisen by accident. Any way I look at it, the Genesis Seal refuses to yield to the skeptic outlook. Where possible, I have calculated the odds against chance alone being the explanation. Using the rules of probability, the odds against Item 1 and Item 5 both being accidental should be the product of the two separate fractions (ie 164 x 25 = 4100:1). Whatever odds are applicable in the case of items 2, 3 and 6 would also have to be multiplied to determine the overall probability.
These effects are just the first signs of what appears to be a very cleverly contrived artefact. I can promise there is a lot more to follow in the same vein. And although I am interested to hear any considered first responses you may have, I must stress that the Genesis Seal is a more highly-coherent structure than is evident from Figure 1. Therefore, a proper assessment of its nature is not yet possible. If you care to offer an immediate response, please bear in mind that the source text for the Genesis Seal has been known for many centuries, and that the way it is re-structured in Figure 1 obeys an easy to follow, intuitive procedure. The procedure is even self-fulfilling, in the positive sense that the text of Genesis 1:1-3 provides several step-by-step hints.
It goes without saying that I hope to hear responses to the effect that the Genesis Seal trumps all previous candidates for ‘supernatural’ design within the Bible.
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Uh huh, that is silly, go study kabalah, there is a code to the bible, your method smacks of John Dee and Enochian.

Listen there already is a code
life=18
adm=45

No need for this silly nonsense. There is already enough of that. Now if you can make the seal show you the tree of life, that would be cool.

But OMG the letter vau appears in the lower half, OMG

Now if the letter vau appeared six times and the letter yod appeared ten and the letter he appeared 5 times, that would be cool.

Can you find any of eh angel names, at least John Dee could do that.

Does it spell elohim chaim or anything cool like that?

So are the angels there?
 
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בְּרֵאשִׁית

That looks right but the you circle around, nope, you should fill in the בָּ and then start the second row again on the right רָא

It looks like you went first up and to the left, then the second row should start with the רָא not the ץ

The hebrai should not loop around like that.

And really you should start in the upper corner of the square and the writing should descend to the left, you have it all goobered up.

They just don't teach talisman making anymore these days, the energy in teh hebrai should go from right to left and up to down.

You got your code wrong. Sigh

:D

Kids these days...
 
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Funny...he calls us his "fellow skeptics," and yet he seems never to have shaken hands with skepticism...
 
ddt wrote:
Various others have already shown how you easy it is to find "interesting" English words in arbitrary grids of Roman letters, and how you can fudge the meaning of "interesting".

In Hebrew, that's even easier. Hebrew doesn't write vowels, and word roots typically consist of 3 consonants, which makes it even easier to find an "interesting" word of three letters.
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I have yet to see an English example that meets the same criteria as the first Hebrew 18 words of Genesis. In an 8x8 grid, it is very likely that there will be one, two or maybe three emergent words. That is not the same as finding significant words. The Genesis Seal marks relevant emergent words, often by means of significant mutua alignments. I have only illustrated three such words in Figure 1 (two of them being identical), and their special alignments are clearly evident. This is a crucial attribute of the Genesis Seal that is being pointedly ignored.
There are plenty of short English words (2, 3 and 4 letters) belonging to related sets. How about composing a 64-letter piece about, say , animals from which an 8x8 grid (formatted as per Genesis Seal) reveals ten names of animals (eg ox, cat, dog, hen, ...).
 
Biblical Boggle based on a text written by some ignorant tribesmen? Pass.
 
Rasmus wrote:
It is essentially random.

Why did you pick 64 letters to begin with, rather than just Genesis 1:1?
What on earth do you think is in the text that "inherently suggests" the order in which you chose to arrange the letters? Why a square? Why fill it in a spiral pattern? Why start from the outside? Why start at a corner?
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Sometime soon, I shall show that the same format, with the same text, inserted in reverse order, raises the bar to a whole new level. It will then be clear that certain, well-defined positions in the grid are reserved for complementary constructs that extend ideas having a biblical purpose. Just to give one example, in the G1 Square (Figure 1) the rightmost corner has a 3x3 group in which one diagonal is the word for ‘light’, and the other diagonal is the word for ‘thick darkness’. When the text is reversed, the original position of ‘light’ becomes host to a word for ‘living creature’, and the place of ‘thick darkness’ is taken by ‘a ram’ (a sacrificial animal).

Also:
All I would have to do is list all my requirements and then write a text by carefully filling the square with letters.
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By all means, give it your best shot. Bear in mind, though, that the first chapter of Genesis was considered a sufficiently ‘artistic’ composition to become the Bible’s lead story.

I will try to pick up all subsequent, serious posts asap. First, I am about to post another diagram that directly addresses the first of the above quotes from Rasmus.
 
I am at work right now, but when I get some time, I will do the same procedure to the Kumulipo. Any guesses as to how many significant words will show up there? :cool:


(Hint, this was originally written in a language that uses a 13 letter alphabet and contains a large number of 1-character words.)
 
Kingfisher2926 said:
I have yet to see an English example that meets the same criteria as the first Hebrew 18 words of Genesis.
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I am ignorant about Hebrew, but I suspect the problem here is that English is not Hebrew.


There are plenty of short English words (2, 3 and 4 letters) belonging to related sets. How about composing a 64-letter piece about, say ...
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Hey! There you go. Another thing for you to try.


You don't need to convince us, we already doubt your discovery. You need to convince yourself because you don't doubt it. Come back when you feel humble and you can't falsify your decoder diamond.
 
Yesterday, I presented a fully-formed G1 Square of the Genesis Seal, which I initially justified as the result of clues built into the structure of Genesis 1:1 itself. But that is not the whole story. As I have hinted more than once, there are additional prompts on how to re-format the start of the Torah given by the source text itself.
First, we see 28-letter Genesis 1:1, consisting of precisely seven words, with word breaks after several multiples of seven letters. And that was why four blocks of seven consecutive letters each were formed into the perimeter of an 8x8 square. In fact, that by itself immediately leads to a striking construct now shown in Figure 2.


Here, the corners of the square-within-a-square each coincides with the middle letter of one of those 7-letter blocks (themselves consecutive sequences from Gen. 1:1). The result is a four-letter sequence that spells the Hebrew word shelosheh, meaning ‘three’ (feminine). In addition, notice the three highlighted letters in corner positions of the main square. These, too, are at intervals of 7 letters in Genesis 1:1, and these spell bara (He created). In fact, the middle letter of this bara is also the middle of an explicit bara of this verse, seen turning the top corner. It is a nice curiosity that the first three letters of the first word also emulate another bara, though there is no linguistic relationship. So, those are the immediate effects of forming Genesis 1:1 into a square perimeter. And the words shelosheh and bara, formed from equally spaced letters are the only significant examples of the so-called Bible Code to be found in my descriptions of the Genesis Seal. But they do serve to emphasise the importance of the number 7 in the design of the Seal.

Having obtained a square perimeter, the next prompt from the biblical text comes from the wording of the start of the next verse. Where it says: And the earth was without form and void…, that is an instruction to look for a remedy for the gaping void in the new square. The way the void was seen filled in Figure 1 was undoubtedly the most compatible with what went before. It is also, without question, a correct way to proceed, as may be deduced from one of its immediate outcomes. Recall that the completed G1 Square revealed two emergent copies of the Hebrew word aur (light), in remarkably well-aligned positions. Undoubtedly, these correspond to Genesis 1:3, which reads: And God said, “Let there be light”, and there was light. What is more, the upper ‘light’, in the right corner, is seen descending vertically directly into the explicit word ha-eretz, meaning ‘the earth’.
These points of correspondence (and they are not alone) offer reassurance that progress is being made in the direction that is intended.
 
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