The Genesis Seal

[Donn]

.. the Bible Code (let's not mention it again)

The bible code.

Seriously. The. Bible. Code. It doesn't count from whence you obtain your noise, patterns will be found. Draw letters randomly, draw them by algorithm, it matters not a jot.

Patterns will emerge. You know why? Because you are seeking them, perhaps even without consciously trying. Your mind is broken, don't trust it.*

I can see a cow in the bricks of my bedroom wall. There's a UFO next to it. I wonder if that means anything ...


* All our minds are broken, hence the many tools of science to catch bugs.

 

[Ladewig]

But wait, right there smack dab in the center of this seal is the true message: Finding something interesting traps one into thinking there is significance to it.

Don't be modest. It is not just in the center; it is perfectly aligned with a axis of bisymmetricalness. That's like odds of one brazilian to one.

 

[Kingfisher2926]

Took me a while, but I think I see the flaw.

I think you equivocate on the word 'pattern'. I think you are looking for meaning, and specifically religious meaning. The absence of patterns would be ignored as you prime the pump with some other text.

So, what are you seeking? Can you not find it somewhere else? Can you not support your findings by some other means?

Why would finding secular phrases not falsify it?
Why would finding religious phrases in arbitrary text not falsify it?

If you have no way to falsify it, then you are merely dowsing.

Does that make sense?

I understand much of what you say, but let me go through the points that I do understand.
I think you are looking for meaning, and specifically religious meaning.
That would be a huge bonus, and perhaps not too surprising given the source of the cryptic text. But I have learned to be content with the idea that the first few words of Genesis embody extraordinary properties that really shouldn't be there. The ultimate conclusion may take its own time.

The absence of patterns would be ignored as you prime the pump with some other text.
The absence of similar patterns anywhere else would only serve to make the Genesis Seal appear more special. As I am an individual rather than a team, I do not have enough time to look for comparison samples. However, if enough people of the right calibre can be persuaded that Genesis 1:1-2 is special in this respect, then maybe that kind of test will become feasible. In the meantime, I am happy knowing that these verses are special, without the comfort of knowing they are uniquely so.

Why would finding secular phrases not falsify it?
Here, you anticipate an important point that I would have come to anyway. It is a vital characteristic of the Genesis Seal that all of its emergent literary content is validated by structural imagery. Take the example of the two emergent copies of aur (light) shown in Figure 1. Recall that the word for 'darkness' that occurs in Genesis 1:2 is tightly sandwiched between their middle letters. What I have not yet mentioned is an alternative, but emergent 3-letter word for 'thick darkness' that crosses through the 'light' in the right-hand corner. It does so in such a way that the light and this darkness form the diagonals of a shared 3x3 group in the extreme corner. Such amalgamations are quite frequent, and seem to exist to validate the words that have an deliberate purpose. As it happens, these do not seem to include any words that are exclusively secular.

Why would finding religious phrases in arbitrary text not falsify it?
I accept that that would falsify it. But the effect would have to be just as well-structured and compact (a large mass in a small volume) as it is in the Genesis Seal.

So, what are you seeking? Can you not find it somewhere else? Can you not support your findings by some other means?
I am not so much seeking as seeing. Or at least that is how it all began. If you mean can I not find religious faith somewhere else, that is not what I am now seeking. What I want for starters is to find others who agree that the Genesis Seal is an extraordinary object worthy of closer examination. Beyond that, let's just see how it might impact on a wider stage.

 

[Twiler]

What words are 'exclusively secular'?

 

[Kingfisher2926]

Years?

You seriously spend years on this hogwash? Years?

You spend years on randomly reassigning a bunch of letters and now all you have to show for it is the claim that the emerging patterns were intentionally built into the original text? That's it?

No prediction, no new knowledge? Nothing that would be beyond interpretation, like the first 50 digits of pi or the first 12 primes?

Certainly not 'randomly reassigning a bunch of letters'. Re-formatting the first 64 Hebrew letters of Genesis, in proper sequence, and according to a rule that is inherently suggested by the text itself. That is the essence of the Genesis Seal.
As for new knowledge, I may eventually reach a point where I can show pretty conclusively that the Genesis Seal has been noticed at a number of points in human history. The proof is to be seen in some momentous historical episodes, as well as expanded biblical narratives, and even a range of well-known mediaeval literature. However, I will not be drawn on these issues until my audience is sufficiently familiar with all aspects of the Genesis Seal.

 

[EvilQuest]

i've tried this thing several times and just can't get it. I get confused every time i get to the part where Peter Gabriel left.

 

[Kingfisher2926]

What words are 'exclusively secular'?

None, as far as I can tell. I mean, nothing like 'capuccino', 'email' and 'teapot'.
Also, as I wrote earlier (twice, I think), the valid, emergent words that are present are all to be seen in striking combinations. You will see what I mean as my disclosures mount up.

 

[Kingfisher2926]

I have given in to the inevitable and added Bible Code as a tag. That does not mean that I have any time for that flawed attempt to bolster Jewish history.
Anyway, at my age its time a caught some sleep.

 

[ddt]

And here are some of the immediate reasons for supposing the text of Genesis 1:1-2 was composed to exhibit hidden inner structure:
1. All 9 copies of the letter vav (blue backgrounds) are confined to the lower half of the grid, against odds of 164:1.
2. Five of those letters have assembled into an unlikely ‘Y’ configuration, precisely on the grid’s vertical axis of bi-lateral symmetry. This would greatly extend the (im)probability of 164:1, though by just how much I cannot guess.

I'm skeptical of your counting abilities but too lazy myself to calculate the odds. However, you have 22 letters to choose from to exhibit some "interesting" pattern, so the odds are pretty meaningless.

3. The surprising first new literary product of this grid, shown as letters on golden backgrounds, is the word betzer (gold), where the final two letters of the last word of Gen 1:1 meet the first letter of the verse.
4. With the addition of the very next letter, the unlikely second product is aur (light), shown with letters in yellow octagonal frames. Since this is also in the Eastern corner, it combines with ‘gold’ to create a golden sunrise. And both those words have their origin in the six-letter first word that means ‘In the beginning’.
5. Ultimately, against odds of about 25:1, there is a second emergent copy of light, this one ascending where the first is descending.
6. Even stranger, the three letters of the source text squeezed between the middle letters of the two emergent lights, spell choshek (darkness). This comes directly from the text: And darkness was upon the face of the deep.

Various others have already shown how you easy it is to find "interesting" English words in arbitrary grids of Roman letters, and how you can fudge the meaning of "interesting".

In Hebrew, that's even easier. Hebrew doesn't write vowels, and word roots typically consist of 3 consonants, which makes it even easier to find an "interesting" word of three letters.

 

[Rasmus]

Certainly not 'randomly reassigning a bunch of letters'. Re-formatting the first 64 Hebrew letters of Genesis, in proper sequence, and according to a rule that is inherently suggested by the text itself. That is the essence of the Genesis Seal.

It is essentially random.

Why did you pick 64 letters to begin with, rather than just Genesis 1:1?
What on earth do you think is in the text that "inherently suggests" the order in which you chose to arrange the letters? Why a square? Why fill it in a spiral pattern? Why start from the outside? Why start at a corner?

You could have used a triangle, possibly a hexagram, or any other odd shape. Even going with the square, you could have filled it in any of a number of ways. (This one, e.g.)

As for new knowledge, I may eventually reach a point where I can show pretty conclusively that the Genesis Seal has been noticed at a number of points in human history.

That would be new knowledge about your silly little game, but no new knowledge gained from playing it. (And it would show that those who came up with it before you also failed in producing anything worthwhile from it.)

The proof is to be seen in some momentous historical episodes, as well as expanded biblical narratives, and even a range of well-known mediaeval literature. However, I will not be drawn on these issues until my audience is sufficiently familiar with all aspects of the Genesis Seal.

We're as familiar with it as we need to be.

Quit stalling for time - just tell us what you think the whole point is! So what if someone managed to write a text that shows some silly little pattern if it gets rearranged? Does that mean anything? Why should anyone care?

How hard would it really be to construct a text with the attributes you find so remarkable? (And that still doesn't save you from the Texas Sharp Shooter Fallacy!)

All I would have to do is list all my requirements and then write a text by carefully filling the square with letters.

 

[dafydd]

Here's "Catch 22":
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/28504f034d1379a78.bmp[/qimg]

I notice the word "Salt" jumping right out at me, which is significant because the story occurs on a Mediterranian island, which is course surrounded by salt water, and "Lots", which allude to the shares of the Company Milo sold.

Also slot, mad, plait, sari, lost, saw, wait. All biblical words full of mystery.

 

[dafydd]

Certainly not 'randomly reassigning a bunch of letters'. Re-formatting the first 64 Hebrew letters of Genesis, in proper sequence, and according to a rule that is inherently suggested by the text itself. That is the essence of the Genesis Seal.
As for new knowledge, I may eventually reach a point where I can show pretty conclusively that the Genesis Seal has been noticed at a number of points in human history. The proof is to be seen in some momentous historical episodes, as well as expanded biblical narratives, and even a range of well-known mediaeval literature. However, I will not be drawn on these issues until my audience is sufficiently familiar with all aspects of the Genesis Seal.

This part of the audience says pass.

 

[ddt]

Also slot, mad, plait, sari, lost, saw, wait. All biblical words full of mystery.

Ah yes, I used to play Boggle with my mum. Was always fun.

 

[jond]

i've tried this thing several times and just can't get it. I get confused every time i get to the part where Peter Gabriel left.

You need to remember that the problems began after that, though. It was when Steve Hackett left that things went all wrong.

 

[dafydd]

If, by 'falsify the effect' you mean create it as a sort of trap, that is almost what the Genesis Seal is. But not a malicious one. You could perhaps regard the Seal as a honey trap, not to catch the unwary, but as a teaching aid.What would it take to make me doubt? Too late I'm afraid, since I am already familiar with fifty times the content highlighted in my first post on this thread.

Teaching people to ignore silly word games? You have succeeded.

 

[EvilQuest]

You need to remember that the problems began after that, though. It was when Steve Hackett left that things went all wrong.

ahh yes. thankyou. that's where i've been going wrong.

 

[dafydd]

I once roller skated with Peter Gabriel. We were both dressed as judges. Empire Pool, London, 1974.

 

[Donn]

I think you are looking for meaning, and specifically religious meaning.
That would be a huge bonus, and perhaps not too surprising given the source of the cryptic text. But I have learned to be content with the idea that the first few words of Genesis embody extraordinary properties that really shouldn't be there. The ultimate conclusion may take its own time.

And yet, you spoke (later) about light and dark and their sandwich of meaning. You also speak of 'extraordinary properties'. So you really do want religious (and supernatural) meanings, it's not a 'huge bonus' it's your raison d'etre.

The absence of patterns would be ignored as you prime the pump with some other text.
The absence of similar patterns anywhere else would only serve to make the Genesis Seal appear more special.

Not what I meant or said. I meant absence would force a retry. It would not inspire a question.

As I am an individual rather than a team, I do not have enough time to look for comparison samples.

Well, I am sure I don't follow all the details, but it seems that a few people have already done at least one other book, Catch-22, on this list. That amazed me, so maybe you can do it too.

Why would finding secular phrases not falsify it?
Here, you anticipate an important point that I would have come to anyway .. As it happens, these do not seem to include any words that are exclusively secular.

All I could glean was that Hebrew does some tricky stuff and secular words have not played a part. I suspect they don't get picked (or even seen) by you.

Why would finding religious phrases in arbitrary text not falsify it?
I accept that that would falsify it. But the effect would have to be just as well-structured and compact (a large mass in a small volume) as it is in the Genesis Seal.

Well, that sounds like an avenue. Give it something secular, or saucy, in Hebrew and see what happens. I'm sure the boffins here would help you find those patterns.

So, what are you seeking? Can you not find it somewhere else? Can you not support your findings by some other means?

I am not so much seeking as seeing. Or at least that is how it all began.

You initially saw a meaningful word/property and it caught your eye. But you have this whole "seal" and grid and set of rules, so I don't quite believe you. I see you jiggling around until you saw a pattern. Either way, as you say, you ended-up seeking.

If you mean can I not find religious faith somewhere else, that is not what I am now seeking.

No. I was hoping you could see the value in cross-referencing your findings from another angle; a way to double-check your process, to make sure you are not fooling yourself.


(Format hell. Laptop hell. Late night hell. Hope submit works..)

 

[jond]

Right, and now you have solved the Genesis Seal. Back to the giant hogweed you go!

 

[dafydd]

I have it, Kingfisher is fishing for a book contract and hopes to enlarge his bank account courtesy of the gullible. It worked with the Bible Code so this has a chance too. Good luck with the scam, Kingfisher.