The General Native American Discussion Thread

[varwoche]

No one is disputing the fact of poor Indians, so what's your point?

How very predictable. I was rebutting a misleading cherry pick. Please try to follow the discussion.

 

[varwoche]

the fact that americans still call aboriginals 'indians' is very telling.

I'm generally happy to call people whatever they want to be called. I live a few miles from a res, and the indians I interact with universally refer to themselves as indians, and so I also use that term.

 

[bikerdruid]

I'm generally happy to call people whatever they want to be called. I live a few miles from a res, and the indians I interact with universally refer to themselves as indians, and so I also use that term.

fair enough.
some black people call each other n******, too, but i would not use that term.

 

[varwoche]

fair enough.
some black people call each other n******, too, but i would not use that term.

Nor would I. And that said, it's not my sense that the locals consider the word indian to be insulting when spoken by non indians. When the next opportunity presents, I'll ask and report back.

 

[Toontown]

come to canada, and call a blackfoot an indian. i wanna watch.
they call themselves 'first nations people'.

If I go to Canada to call a Blackfoot an indian, I'll bring some Comanches. Then we'll see who watches who do what to whom.

 

[MaGZ]

When will the Indians take responsibility for their own situation? They continue to be wards of the state and have their own social problems that they are unwilling to address. The reservation system seems antiquated and they all hate the White man for their failures. I don’t see what more the government needs to do for them.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

It's just like this!

Dickhouse?

I like how they have Bo and Derek White. I have to rent this.

 

[MaGZ]

Native Americans should be able to go to Congress, give them a list of what they need or want (within reason) and get it no questions asked.

Why not give them a Wal-Mart government-paid credit card instead?

 

[bikerdruid]

When will the Indians take responsibility for their own situation? They continue to be wards of the state and have their own social problems that they are unwilling to address. The reservation system seems antiquated and they all hate the White man for their failures. I don’t see what more the government needs to do for them.

what a relief to see that your hatred crosses racial and not just religious lines.

 

[MaGZ]

fair enough.
some black people call each other n******, too, but i would not use that term.

The original meaning of Native American.
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Native_American

 

[Gazpacho]

I've been all over the US, seen a few Native American communities that have their **** together (Taos Pueblo, Santo Domingo Pueblo and Eastern Navajo) and a whole lot that don't. Typically it's because they've been dropped on bad land in the middle of white people who despise them.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Pardon my interjecting. These are the results of a hasty google session:

Indian Reservation Roads Program Rife With Mismanagement

Jury convicts ex-BIA superintendent in corruption case

$2.4 billion unreconciled

BIA Mismanaged Its OLES Radio Communications Program

BIA lacks sufficient safeguards to adequately detect misuse and mismanagement of funds

Inaction, indifference and mismanagement throughout the entire BIA detention program

I could go on endlessly.

And in future installments, I'll be providing evidence of death and taxes.

Thank you very much, I couldn't find anything other than people ranting about the BIA. You've found some pretty good information. The BIA is indeed a corrupt and inept organization.

I've been all over the US, seen a few Native American communities that have their **** together (Taos Pueblo, Santo Domingo Pueblo and Eastern Navajo) and a whole lot that don't. Typically it's because they've been dropped on bad land in the middle of white people who despise them.

This is very true, but at least some tribes are using what little money they have to buy better lands that some of our treaties guaranteed them but deprived them of.

 

[mortimer]

Pardon my interjecting. These are the results of a hasty google session:

Indian Reservation Roads Program Rife With Mismanagement

Jury convicts ex-BIA superintendent in corruption case

$2.4 billion unreconciled

BIA Mismanaged Its OLES Radio Communications Program

BIA lacks sufficient safeguards to adequately detect misuse and mismanagement of funds

Inaction, indifference and mismanagement throughout the entire BIA detention program

I could go on endlessly.

And in future installments, I'll be providing evidence of death and taxes.

Looks like you found one person who was convicted of corruption and found lots of reports of inefficiencies and mismanagement. Does that make the BIA horribly corrupt and a failed agency? Looks to me like a typical government agency, but I could be wrong...

 

[varwoche]

Looks like you found one person who was convicted of corruption and found lots of reports of inefficiencies and mismanagement. Does that make the BIA horribly corrupt and a failed agency? Looks to me like a typical government agency, but I could be wrong...

Like I said, I could have gone on endlessly. But like you say infer, it's probably easy to produce a similar list for any government department, so I don't expect you to be convinced. But maybe you can now give more credence to the possibility.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Looks like you found one person who was convicted of corruption and found lots of reports of inefficiencies and mismanagement. Does that make the BIA horribly corrupt and a failed agency? Looks to me like a typical government agency, but I could be wrong...

These "individual" cases happen frequently over relatively "short" spans of time. And lots of "bribery" goes on in the agency, especially between congress and the gaming sector of the BIA. I showed you a link which you swiftly discredited but it has merit to it, because many similar situations occur in the BIA. Mismanagement of funds and law suits to retrieve funds are becoming standard protocol in the BIA. And to be quite honest, Native Americans can manage many of their own affairs (accept those which we agree are vital to national security, health, or welfare). It would be more effective to dissolve the organization and allow Native Americans to coordinate and regulate the issues largely by themselves of course under the supervision of the American congress via direct representation.

 

[mortimer]

These "individual" cases happen frequently over relatively "short" spans of time. And lots of "bribery" goes on in the agency, especially between congress and the gaming sector of the BIA. I showed you a link which you swiftly discredited but it has merit to it, because many similar situations occur in the BIA. Mismanagement of funds and law suits to retrieve funds are becoming standard protocol in the BIA. And to be quite honest, Native Americans can manage many of their own affairs (accept those which we agree are vital to national security, health, or welfare). It would be more effective to dissolve the organization and allow Native Americans to coordinate and regulate the issues largely by themselves of course under the supervision of the American congress via direct representation.

More unsubstantiated claims. You realize that the one fraud case that you presented as evidence was perpetrated by one of the tribal members who worked for the BIA, and not in the BIA national organization? How does that translate to the tribes being able to manage the money more efficiently?

Please do expound on your claim that the BIA is horribly corrupt and a failed organization.

 

[L.Y.S.]

More unsubstantiated claims. You realize that the one fraud case that you presented as evidence was perpetrated by one of the tribal members who worked for the BIA, and not in the BIA national organization? How does that translate to the tribes being able to manage the money more efficiently?

Please do expound on your claim that the BIA is horribly corrupt and a failed organization.

The problem with what you ask, is that most of the corruption charges filed against the BIA are singular and not organizational. In other words, most investigations seek out individuals and not rings. So there is no actual way of telling exactly how corrupt the BIA actually is. Some determine corruption by the number of dollars that go "missing"[1][2] . Until there is a full investigation of the organization it cannot be "exactly" determined how much corruption there is in the BIA, but it is pretty well understood that there is "some" corruption in the BIA. No one is certain of the extent of corruption, but many are sure that there are many corrupt regional and tribal leaders within the organization.

Most Native Americans view the organization as corrupt and inept and no longer want this "particular" organization to disperse funds. Many would be content with a new restructured ogvernment office that could better meet the demands of the indigenous. The BIA suffers from more than mere "mismanagement" it also suffers a bad history with Natives, and heavy underfunding.

The BIA is inefficient, to which extent, I will concede, we do not "yet" know. But it is certain, that the BIA suffers structurally from the bottom to the top of the organization. And many of the back door deals made with federally guaranteed Native money zap the resources needed to fix things. The story with the senator involved highlights what does go on with in the organization. Most know, but no one takes the time to investigate the entire organization. Prosecution has thus far remained an individual matter instead of an organizational matter.

It is only logical that eventually the BIA will cease to exist and in its place the indigenous are allowed at least "some" form of direct representation. Whether it is in the form of a representative, a senator, or a semi-official congressional organ that involves native participation. It is clear that this would be more efficient than the current system. And the indigenous can support themselves, once they have the necessary financial means to do so.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The problem with what you ask, is that most of the corruption charges filed against the BIA are singular and not organizational. In other words, most investigations seek out individuals and not rings. So there is no actual way of telling exactly how corrupt the BIA actually is. Some determine corruption by the number of dollars that go "missing"[1][2] . Until there is a full investigation of the organization it cannot be "exactly" determined how much corruption there is in the BIA, but it is pretty well understood that there is "some" corruption in the BIA. No one is certain of the extent of corruption, but many are sure that there are many corrupt regional and tribal leaders within the organization.

Most Native Americans view the organization as corrupt and inept and no longer want this "particular" organization to disperse funds. Many would be content with a new restructured ogvernment office that could better meet the demands of the indigenous. The BIA suffers from more than mere "mismanagement" it also suffers a bad history with Natives, and heavy underfunding.

The BIA is inefficient, to which extent, I will concede, we do not "yet" know. But it is certain, that the BIA suffers structurally from the bottom to the top of the organization. And many of the back door deals made with federally guaranteed Native money zap the resources needed to fix things. The story with the senator involved highlights what does go on with in the organization. Most know, but no one takes the time to investigate the entire organization. Prosecution has thus far remained an individual matter instead of an organizational matter.

It is only logical that eventually the BIA will cease to exist and in its place the indigenous are allowed at least "some" form of direct representation. Whether it is in the form of a representative, a senator, or a semi-official congressional organ that involves native participation. It is clear that this would be more efficient than the current system. And the indigenous can support themselves, once they have the necessary financial means to do so.

So what do they get instead of voting rights?

 

[Toontown]

So what do they get instead of voting rights?

Unfair representation in Congress, if L.Y.S. has his way. Each small tribe will have it's own senator.

But we all know L.Y.S. is living a pipe dream. The Constitution is not about to be amended in that manner.

 

[L.Y.S.]

So what do they get instead of voting rights?

You mean from representatives who "sometimes" help them but "often" forgets them?

Unfair representation in Congress, if L.Y.S. has his way. Each small tribe will have it's own senator.

But we all know L.Y.S. is living a pipe dream. The Constitution is not about to be amended in that manner.

Skewing what I orginally meant. Typical.

Most Native Americans don't have direct representation. I've highlighted this several times. Several times you have neglected it.