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The General Native American Discussion Thread

You haven't explained anything well. You seem to be saying that the Indians should get allocated seats in congress in addition to political autonomy and get more subsidies and benefits while at the same time getting more independence.

Rhetoric, and doesn't slightly describe my position. Increased representation, (appropriate) self-determination, and "appropriate" funding to jump start their economies (until they become financially independant enough to support themselves). Nothing else was said, but many other statements were extrapolated.

And you seem to think this is all bound up in some law that you can't name.

Nope, the original arguments were to "clarify" Native Americans unique legal status under law. Many members were under the "impression" that the law did not distinguish between "indigenous nations" and "regular citizens" of the United States. However, the law does "state" that they are "separate legal entities with in the United States of America and not obliged directly under state and federal law". It did not "describe" representation which I have said several times, but clearly you have not read (very typical for you in responding to a post which you disagree with).

What was said, is that the current status of Native American representation is at best "unclear" and they often get "underrepresented" by their "supposed representatives". They border a very "in between" place in the law. And no one has "bothered" to find out "how" exactly Native Americans will be best "represented". Native "nations" are "not" a part of the state so it makes no sense to "share" representation when their representation clearly differs from that of their neighboring state. As it were now, they are not "directly" represented, and many "requests" to their representatives are often ignored or remain unheard. And there has been rhetoric slugged around, but no clarification of how Natives will currently be represented.

How will natives get "actual" direct representation? It is clear that the current system of government is failing to do the job and failing to meet the needs of the local people. The BIA is a corrupt institution, and local representatives for the vast majority of the time don’t listen to the Native people. It is clear that “representation” will be better in the hands of the locals instead of the federal and or state government. Several nations have delegated the "right" of local representation in the national arena to "nations which exists in their borders". This is "certainly" not something which is new, as people here seem to suggest.
 
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Dissolve the BIA and give each nation direct representation in congress. Nations can agree to share representation based on cultural and historical likeness if that is what is "desired".
Please expound on your proposal to give each Nation direct representation. Which Nations? All of them? How much representation. Please give us your draft Constitutional Amendment.

So for evidence that the BIA is "horribly corrupt, inefficient, and a failed agency", you give us an article about the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs (which is NOT the BIA), and one corrupt individual who was accused and convicted of malfeasance. Really? I mean, really? That's all you've got? If so, then every single government agency in the past and present is horribly corrupt, inefficient, and a failed agency. Is that what you are asserting?
 
I should point out that I live right next to a reservation. It has nice, wide streets. A brand new water and sewer system. It even has a real nice school. Definitely more modern that the one the kids surrounding the reservation use.

In fact their biggest problem is that way more people want to live on the reservation than can possibly fit there.
 
I should point out that I live right next to a reservation. It has nice, wide streets. A brand new water and sewer system. It even has a real nice school. Definitely more modern that the one the kids surrounding the reservation use.

In fact their biggest problem is that way more people want to live on the reservation than can possibly fit there.

Which reservation is it? Btw, I would like to add one nice reservation does not = all reservations are nice. I have a cousin down in Arizona and she doesn't live too far from a reservation. The ones around those parts look like a hell holes and it’s pretty broken down and neglected. Same goes for the Plains reservations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLJRY4HNPfo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjwXfJmSAUU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHa_ybzEsJ8&feature=relmfu

Some in Virginia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSUz4EKNcdM&feature=relmfu

Things aren't peachy on "most" reservations. And it has been clarified several times that "most" reservations witness "third world" conditions. That is not a gross over exaggeration of reality.
 
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So what's Canada's excuse?

I can't believe calling them "First Nations" and other lip service hasn't actually made their lives better! But at least white guys like you can feel good about yourselves, because you're politically correct. And that's what it's all about, making white guys feel better without having to sacrifice anything.

Well... quite frankly though Canada has a national organization of First Nations, there still exists a huge issue of social/cultural/political/historical/economic issues with Canadian reserves.

Google Oka or Caledonia for recent hotspots.
 
Which reservation is it? Btw, I would like to add one nice reservation does not = all reservations are nice. I have a cousin down in Arizona and she doesn't live too far from a reservation. The ones around those parts look like a hell holes and it’s pretty broken down and neglected. Same goes for the Plains reservations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLJRY4HNPfo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjwXfJmSAUU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHa_ybzEsJ8&feature=relmfu

Some in Virginia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSUz4EKNcdM&feature=relmfu

Things aren't peachy on "most" reservations. And it has been clarified several times that "most" reservations witness "third world" conditions. That is not a gross over exaggeration of reality.

The only other big reservation I've been on was down in Arizona and it was quite nice too. They even had a nice little college there.

Most reservations here in California are pretty good. A lot of them are even economic hubs like the one I am right next to. Biggest employer in the area the MeWuk tribe is. They're actively buying up the town and people are all for it. They've demonstrated competent leadership for some time now so most people are in favor of letting them run things.

Unfortunately it also means that everyone and their brother suddenly has MeWuk lineage. Very convenient. :rolleyes:
 
Most reservations here in California are pretty good. A lot of them are even economic hubs like the one I am right next to. Biggest employer in the area the MeWuk tribe is.
Visit a few reservations that don't have a casino if you want to get a fuller picture.
 
The only other big reservation I've been on was down in Arizona and it was quite nice too. They even had a nice little college there.

Most reservations here in California are pretty good. A lot of them are even economic hubs like the one I am right next to. Biggest employer in the area the MeWuk tribe is. They're actively buying up the town and people are all for it. They've demonstrated competent leadership for some time now so most people are in favor of letting them run things.

Unfortunately it also means that everyone and their brother suddenly has MeWuk lineage. Very convenient. :rolleyes:

Could I have evidence that "most" reservations in california are good or is this some sort of unquantified personal experience? Because I've been to a few out in Arizona, and some around the south west, and the rservations looke like they faced a lot of neglect.

ETA: I would like to add that most reservations without casinos are pretty bad places, as varwoche suggests.

varwoche said:
Visit a few reservations that don't have a casino if you want to get a fuller picture.

I second this.
 
You've asked me to propose a constitutional amendment and expect me to have it finished within a day? Be reasonable, I am obtaining the information you seek.
I'm more interested in discussing your evidence that the BIA is "horribly corrupt, inefficient, and a failed agency".
 
I'm more interested in discussing your evidence that the BIA is "horribly corrupt, inefficient, and a failed agency".
Pardon my interjecting. These are the results of a hasty google session:

Indian Reservation Roads Program Rife With Mismanagement

Jury convicts ex-BIA superintendent in corruption case

$2.4 billion unreconciled

BIA Mismanaged Its OLES Radio Communications Program

BIA lacks sufficient safeguards to adequately detect misuse and mismanagement of funds

Inaction, indifference and mismanagement throughout the entire BIA detention program

I could go on endlessly.

And in future installments, I'll be providing evidence of death and taxes.
 
Visit a few small whitey towns that don't have a casino and you will get a fuller picture too.
Nobody is disputing the fact of poor white people, so what's your point?

If you want to play dualing poverty statistics, I'll bet that Appalachia fares better than reservations. But so what.
 

The majority white county of my birth has had 2 county sheriffs and 2 county commissioners sent to prison. The FBI investigated the county government and found so much corruption that prosecuting all the wrongdoers would have collapsed the entire government infrastructure. So the FBI only prosecuted a few of the worst offenders. Later, an incompetent mayor had to be run out of the state under threat of prosecution on drug charges. They never learn, not the corrupt monkeys that seek political power or the gullible voters that empower them.

This hellhole, BTW, is crammed with churches. You can't go 3 blocks in any direction without seeing a church.

It also happens to be in the middle of Indian country. Rich Indians, who, for whatever reason, have decided to pour tons of money into the county. So maybe it will get better. All that Indian money seems to be attracting a better class of people to the area.

Indians are quite capable of taking care of themselves, without a lot of special favors from the White Man. In fact, some tribes are capable of giving some of the whites a helping hand.
 
Nobody is disputing the fact of poor white people, so what's your point?

If you want to play dualing poverty statistics, I'll bet that Appalachia fares better than reservations. But so what.

No one is disputing the fact of poor Indians, so what's your point?
 
the fact that americans still call aboriginals 'indians' is very telling.

The fact that you don't know that most U.S. "aboriginals" call themselves 'Indians' is far more telling. I don't advise calling a Comanche an "aboriginal" to his face. You should avoid that. He might not be familiar with the term. He might think you're calling him some kind of dumbass caveman, or some kind of 'abberation'. But there is no problem with calling him an 'Indian'.

BTW, I've tried calling them 'Native Americans'. It just doesn't roll off the tongue right. And 'Amerind' is a stupid-sounding acronym that I've only heard stupid white leftists use.
 
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The fact that you don't know that most U.S. "aboriginals" call themselves 'Indians' is far more telling. I don't advise calling a Comanche an "aboriginal" to his face. You should avoid that. He might not be familiar with the term. He might think you're calling him some kind of dumbass caveman, or some kind of 'abberation'. But there is no problem with calling him an 'Indian'.

BTW, I've tried calling them 'Native Americans'. It just doesn't roll off the tongue right. And 'Amerind' is a stupid-sounding acronym that I've only heard stupid white leftists use.

come to canada, and call a blackfoot an indian. i wanna watch.
they call themselves 'first nations people'.
 

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