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The Electric Revolution

I remember as a child being amused by questions from people in the South of England to the effect of, do you have electricity in Scotland? What did they think we were, barbarians living in caves? But they were echoing the situation from a few decades earlier, when indeed parts of rural northern Scotland were among the last to be electrified. "Everything, everywhere, all at once" is not how new technology happens.
 
For those who still don't understand what I'm doing, or who think I'm taking a screwdriver to the system to make it do something illegal, here's a picture.

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After midnight the battery, which was exported by about 11.30, charges back up to full. The house is running from the grid from 11.30 pm till 5.30 am. The battery is charges by about 3.30 am, and the hot water tank is heated from 4.30 am and is done before 5.30. At 5.30 I start to export the battery down to 30%. It has to be this early because the sun rises early on a sunny day. (By September I was exporting quite a lot later.) Solar generation started about 6 am, but solar plus the 3.5 kw battery export didn't reach the export cap of 5 kw. (If it had done, the system would have throttled the battery export to continue exporting the solar.)

The inverter is set at "export to 100%" from 7 am, which prevents the battery being charged from the solar, which is exported instead (although it continues to power the house of course.) At about 9.30 am the generation exceeds the allowed export, but instead of capping the generation, the system puts the excess into the battery. Things got a bit cloudier mid-afternoon but I put about 4 kwh into the battery that way before the sun dipped to the point where there was no more clipping, about 4 pm.

It looks as if I turned off the export setting around 3 pm to boil the kettle, although it seems I didn't need to, and didn't immediately turn it back on again, so the battery grabbed a bit more solar at that point. The system was set to turn the export off about 6 pm, to prevent the battery grabbing more solar than need be (if it did it would just be exported again, but there are losses in doing that). After that the house has full access to the battery and cooking and so on can be done without any concern about drawing mains power. You can see a spike of usage about 7 pm when I may have microwaved something.

Later, about nine, the house base load goes up, probably because I turned up the central heating and the boiler uses about 3-500 watts. It was April after all. The battery discharge steepens. Then, some time before 10.15 pm the battery starts to export what it has left, to be empty when the cheap rate starts, and the house can switch over to mains. The battery will fill itself starting at midnight.

It needs periodic tweaking as the sunrise/sunset times vary, and a decision whether to bother at all if the weather doesn't seem likely to be clear. But if it's set up right it can be more or less forgotten without risking more than a penny or two in mains consumption.
 
Well, this thread has convinced me I don't know enough about electricity to ever mess with solar panels.
 
I understand your argument. And it has merit. But this idea we should halt the revolution "until" it can be a revolution for all is exactly what those that are truly wealthy and powerful want you to think.

This is chicken and egg stuff. We electrified America by first running power to the rich and powerful. Specifically the richest man in the world.JP Morgan's
home was the first mansion electrified in 1882. Lots of farms didn't have power until the 1950s. And they didn't get power without government assistance.
Why does it need to be halted? Fund the poorest to adopt the technology and the pricing should plummet etc. (According to economists.)

(And you meant first in the USA?)
 
Well, this thread has convinced me I don't know enough about electricity to ever mess with solar panels.
You don't really need to know much beyond basic principles. It's like anything else- you can tech out and get into all the geeky details, but a basic system is very intuitive.

Like, describe the neural activity and body mechanics involved in lifting a pencil. It would sound so complicated that you'd be afraid to even try. But the tech details don't matter for a simple installation- if you can plug in a toaster, you have most of the knowledge and skillset to be a residential electrician.
 
Why does it need to be halted? Fund the poorest to adopt the technology and the pricing should plummet etc. (According to economists.)

(And you meant first in the USA?)

Sure. Just get the politicians on board. Good luck with that. And in the mean time, what are the rest of us supposed to do?
 
Why does it need to be halted? Fund the poorest to adopt the technology and the pricing should plummet etc. (According to economists.)
Yeah, and if I was wealthy and attractive I'd have a threesome with.....
 
Well, since pounds is the currency both Darat and I use, pounds.
OK, that's $13,400 US dollars. I'm buying 30ea 390 watt panels or 11.7 KW for $2700, A few hybrid inverters, miscellaneous racking, cabling and a used EV and charger.
 
Wise choice. I'm interested to know what Darat would do. Take advantage of the opportunity, or jump on his high horse because someone on the basic minimum wage can't have the same.
 
It's interesting, I'm reading conflicting reports on energy. One, a McKinsey report saying fossil fuels will still be the dominant energy until 2050. How AI needs etc will require large increases in energy production.

I'm also reading about double, triple junction PV cells. Batteries dropping to prices almost unthinkable just a few years ago. We're also seeing EVs getting cheaper and cheaper. I very much want to buy an EV, more solar panels, and more home battery capacity. I felt sure I was going to buy at least two more 5K server rack home batteries before Christmas. But now I think I should wait until at least next summer and buy sodium batteries

I expect to see dramatic price drops this year. So I'm going to wait until next summer to buy sodium chemistry batteries. Not just because they will be cheaper but because they perform better in cold weather. One of the downsides of lithium batteries is that you don't want to charge them when they get below freezing. And that they lose their charge faster in cold temperatures. In contrast, sodium batteries are fully functional to as low as -30C.

I don't believe it will take anywhere near as long as McKinsey seems to think. I'd guess more like 2040 or sooner.
 
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As far as an EV goes, I had to change my car in 2023 because I had an insurance write-off on my hands, so I decided just to go with the best bargain I could find at the time. Everybody was saying hold on because the technology is improving so fast, and that's fine if you have a car that's running, but when you need a new car you need a new car.

It's quite possible that in another two or three years my MG4 with its 51 kwh LFP battery is going to look like a Reliant Robin, but so be it. And anyway, it will still be the same car I'm very pleased with at the moment.
 
As far as an EV goes, I had to change my car in 2023 because I had an insurance write-off on my hands, so I decided just to go with the best bargain I could find at the time. Everybody was saying hold on because the technology is improving so fast, and that's fine if you have a car that's running, but when you need a new car you need a new car.

It's quite possible that in another two or three years my MG4 with its 51 kwh LFP battery is going to look like a Reliant Robin, but so be it. And anyway, it will still be the same car I'm very pleased with at the moment.
No, when you need a car, you need a car. That makes total sense. I would do what you did. I also don't care much about the looks of a car. So it sounds like you made the right move in my book. 51kwh in the UK fits where you live. Whereas in the Western US it makes less sense. What is the old saying? People in America think 100 years is a long time and people in England think 100 miles is a long way.
 
Well, this thread has convinced me I don't know enough about electricity to ever mess with solar panels.
And its convinced me we should be (as installers) pushing for a LOT more lockouts on consumer access to their settings...

People with zero knowledge of what they are doing have no business fiddling with things that can cause quite a lot of damage
(and so far on this thread the person concerned has made literally every 'electrical newbies' error in the book....)

IF they have been fiddling with the setting I think they have been- then a visit from an inspector from the DNO will be in their future sooner or later....
 
It's interesting, I'm reading conflicting reports on energy. One, a McKinsey report saying fossil fuels will still be the dominant energy until 2050. How AI needs etc will require large increases in energy production.

I'm also reading about double, triple junction PV cells. Batteries dropping to prices almost unthinkable just a few years ago. We're also seeing EVs getting cheaper and cheaper. I very much want to buy an EV, more solar panels, and more home battery capacity. I felt sure I was going to buy at least two more 5K server rack home batteries before Christmas. But now I think I should wait until at least next summer and buy sodium batteries

I expect to see dramatic price drops this year. So I'm going to wait until next summer to buy sodium chemistry batteries. Not just because they will be cheaper but because they perform better in cold weather. One of the downsides of lithium batteries is that you don't want to charge them when they get below freezing. And that they lose their charge faster in cold temperatures. In contrast, sodium batteries are fully functional to as low as -30C.

I don't believe it will take anywhere near as long as McKinsey seems to think. I'd guess more like 2040 or sooner.
If that forecast by McKinsey was done by economists then take it with a grain of salt. Economists think 5 to 7C of warming over 200 years would only knock GDP by 25%. I.e. ~0.14% per year. Why bother doing anything if the effects are lost in the noise?

ETA:
 
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