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The DeSantis gambit

Might be because about 8% of their labor force is undocumented/illegal. When 8% of your entire labor force has no legal recourse for unsafe work environments, overtime pay, benefits etc, it tends to depress all wages.



Nationwide its about 4.4% of the labor force is thought to be illegal, so Florida is damn near twice the average.
Yet according to my quick google search, California and Nevada both have a higher percentage of illegal immigrants in their work force, yet both have a higher per capita GDP than Florida.

ETA: higher household income too. So you can have both a high number of illegal immigrants working AND high wages.
 
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I'd rather have incompetent morons running a democracy than a wise benevolent sage-king...looks like my wish was granted! But the consolation is that there's yet to be a wise benevolent sage-king, at least one that lasted more than a week before being murdered to death. So...yay? Go Team Human! We, uh, could be worse? Yeah, let's go with that motto.

OK, we have had our dose of cool, hip, nihilistic angst for the week....


Is that what Winston Churchill was doing when he offered his opinion about democracy? (Much the same as TM's, just more succinctly.)
 
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People aren't moving to FL because of its politics and DeSantis' right wing idiotic policies. They're moving for reason unrelated to politics:

1) great weather
2) no state income tax
3) robust job opportunities
4) work from home ability
5) lower cost of living

“I hate being cold,” says Kathy Bonini, 42, who grew up in Pennsylvania but moved to Florida in 2011. “Everybody loves sunshine and palm trees.”

Nancy Sikes-Kline, mayor of the Florida port city of St. Augustine, agrees.

“You know, we call ourselves ‘the sunshine state’ and I think that that makes a big difference,” Sikes-Kline says when asked why people relocate to her state. “I think, at the very core, it's just this wonderful weather that we have. The sunshine.”

Florida is known for attracting older, retired Americans. But more than 700,000 people of all ages moved to the state between April 1, 2020, and July 1, 2022. That was during the COVID-19 pandemic, a time when many remote workers could live wherever they wanted.

Economist Sean Snaith says there are factors other than the weather that draw people to Florida, including a robust labor market and the fact that, unlike most U.S. states, Florida has no state income tax.

“Depending on where folks are moving from, that might be an extra 8, 9, 10% of your pay that you get to keep that previously went to pay state taxes or other local taxes,” says Snaith, an economics professor at the University of Central Florida and director of UCF’s Institute for Economic Forecasting.

An analysis of Census data shows that people within the United States who move to Florida most frequently come from New York, Georgia, Ohio, Pennsylvania and California.

“Time to kind of get out of California with the wildfires and the high cost of living,” says Florida resident Aaron Dan, 36, who moved from the West Coast in May 2021, during the pandemic. Dan, who works in real estate, sees more opportunities for land development and commercial leasing in Florida.

“You can get a lot more for your dollar around here, lower taxes, obviously,” he says. “So, I think just the cost of living is very attractive as well as the opportunity for growth.”

“Unless there's some sort of a dramatic change to, you know, the environment, politically, economically,” Snaith says, “I just don't see any kind of factor that would take us off this course that the state's been on for a long time.”
 
OK, we have had our dose of cool, hip, nihilistic angst for the week....

Oh, that's not nihilism. Nihilism is pointing out that we're all mortal and absolutely nothing we or anyone does or has ever done matters in the slightest.
 
People aren't moving to FL because of its politics and DeSantis' right wing idiotic policies. They're moving for reason unrelated to politics:

1) great weather
2) no state income tax
3) robust job opportunities
4) work from home ability
5) lower cost of living
2, 3 and 5 are very much related to politics.
Of those items, the only one where there is direct political control is that of income tax (and as someone mentioned, this may only be possible since they are usually a net recipient of federal funding).

While the government can have a LITTLE impact on the other options, the effects are overwhelmed by non-political factors....

The "robust job opportunities" seem to be at least partly a result of:
- General economic growth
- Tourism, which benefits from favorable weather and decisions by companies like disney to locate there decades ago
And even then, Florida's unemployment rate is only ranked 13th. Ok, its in the top half, but its still pretty mediocre.

Even an incompetent boob like meatball Ron can mess things up and still see the economy grow.

And the cost of living may be lower in florida (compared to some places like NY and California) but that has as much to do with population density as anything else. Plus, while the cost of living might be lower, the average income and per capita GDP are also lower in florida. You may not be better off if you can by a house cheaper, but also see a corresponding decrease in your paycheck.

From: Business Insider
...the median home value in Florida had risen 22% over the prior year, per Zillow data, compared to an 12% nationwide increase over the same period. ... a 2019 Joblist study that compared wages to cost of living ranked Florida last out of all 50 states in terms of affordability.

I suspect there are probably a few people who get suckered in... they THINK they will be better off in Florida (No income tax! Cheaper housing than New York! It will be like my winter vacation but only year round!) but find the reality very different once they get there and find "hey, I'm only earning half as much".
 
I am not sure why the well-deserved criticism of DeSantis and company has turned into general Florida bashing, but there has been some misinformation posted here.

For workers, the decrease in cost of living for someone to move to Florida is likely to exceed the reduction in salary.

https://www.salary.com/research/cost-of-living/compare/new-york-ny/orlando-fl

While home prices have risen in Florida, they still tend to be lower than other states.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/median-home-price-by-state

And Florida is no where near the top of states dependant on Federal Funding. It's actually ranked about 30th.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700

Florida was a good place for companies to consider until the state showed its willingness to attack its largest employer.
 
This has already been discussed. Despite the framing of the story, there's no evidence of an actual connection. The cancellation was due to internal Disney issues, and it's going to hurt Disney because the move (these weren't going to be new employees, but employees moved from California to Florida) was going to reduce costs, something they desperately need right now..


Wrong!

Disney the said the project was no longer viable due to "changing business conditions". That's just corporate speak for 'the governor of the state that we built an immovable giant sprawling theme park in, is a raging fascist idiot and we'd rather not expand our presence there at this time'

The connection between Disney's cancellation of this project and the ongoing feud with Meatball Ron has been confirmed by sources, with the New York Times reporting from two sources who were briefed on the decision... "the company's battle with Mr DeSantis and his allies in the Florida legislature figured prominently into Disney's decision to cancel the Lake Nona project"

Boom!

Meanwhile, California's Disney attraction Disneyland just announced it'll be investing 253 million dollars annually by overhauling their Anaheim Resort with new attractions,
shops, restaurants and entertainment so while Meatball Ron is trying to drive Disney out of business in Fliroda, California is drawing in business... and that's a point California governor Gavin Newsome is driving home. he tweeted "Disney, the door's open to bring back those jobs to California, the state that actually represents the values of your workers"
 
People aren't moving to FL because of its politics and DeSantis' right wing idiotic policies. They're moving for reason unrelated to politics:

1) great weather
2) no state income tax
3) robust job opportunities
4) work from home ability
5) lower cost of living

You forgot 6) there's a lot of idiots out there who think straight up nazism is a good political philosophy to run a government.

Oh, and of the people who are moving to Florida because of "no state income taxes" over 99% will find that the 10% foregone from their pay packets will return them many multiple of that 10% in benefits, simply because of benefits of scale. But, as I said, there's a lot of idiots out there.
 
Sorry, Disney is the "largest single-site employer" in Florida. Walmart is the largest employer.

The point is, though, that DeSantis has attacked and continues to attack one of the largest employers in the state for no reason other than vindictiveness. That is surely going to scare away businesses looking to move to or expand in Florida.

If DeSantis didn't have national ambitions and wasn't such an ass by nature, I could believe it was all on purpose to keep companies, like Disney, from bringing more liberal employees into the state.
 
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It does seem like a poor long-term plan. Disney is of course already there, and not in a position to leave, but any company that is thinking of entering Florida, either physically or fiscally, must now consider the basic fact that the state government can and will attempt to control its non-business conduct by passing new, targeted laws.

The conservative voter base traditionally votes for the "leopards eat your face off" party, blithely assuming their faces exempt, but I think the collective wisdom of corporations and their lawyers is likely to be a bit more savvy.
 
Watching Trump and DeSantis compete for the GOP nomination reminds me of a Monty Python sketch.
 
From: Business Insider
...the median home value in Florida had risen 22% over the prior year, per Zillow data, compared to an 12% nationwide increase over the same period. ... a 2019 Joblist study that compared wages to cost of living ranked Florida last out of all 50 states in terms of affordability.

I suspect there are probably a few people who get suckered in... they THINK they will be better off in Florida (No income tax! Cheaper housing than New York! It will be like my winter vacation but only year round!) but find the reality very different once they get there and find "hey, I'm only earning half as much".

High costs of living in some of the more booming parts of the country are driving a lot of people looking for cheaper states to live in.

I don't know how much of Florida's lower housing costs is because of any policy or just a fact of having lots of available room. Growing is easy until it isn't. Urban planning rapidly becomes more critical as the population increases.

If the people running Florida had any sense they'd look around at the congested and expensive messes that are so common in major metro areas of the US and start planning ahead on how to avoid this. If Florida's population keeps growing it's only a matter of time before they face a similar housing crunch and other growing pains.
 
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And Florida is no where near the top of states dependant on Federal Funding. It's actually ranked about 30th.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/donor-states

Florida is #3 on the "taker" state list for 2023 receiving $51 billion more in Federal spending than it pays in taxes.



While home prices have risen in Florida, they still tend to be lower than other states.

This is offset by high insurance costs, or worse the inability to even buy insurance as many insurance companies are leaving the state altogether.
 

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