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Ed The Cuomo Scandal.

I'm aware. Cuomo/Newsom 2028.

I didn't know he was a celestial body, however.

I think the curiousity and attention of the media somewhat coincided with the political winds. There were several prominent Democrats condemning him. Also a pawn sacrifice.

A United States Senator with Franken's ability to communicate is a hardly a pawn.

2028? You might as well be saying the twelfth of never. And what makes you think Newsom would want the number 2 spot?

Thanks for alerting me about the typo though. That's the problem when the typo spell out another word. I fixed it. Again thanks.
 
A United States Senator with Franken's ability to communicate is a hardly a pawn.

The seat would remain with the Democratic Party. I vaguely remember that he was further left and closer to the mold of Bernie Sanders (who is an Independent, not a Democrat- I know), for better or worse, so I don't think much love was lost between Al Franken and the more prominent and mainstream congressional Democrats. As I said before, this was also simultaneous with the controversy over the senate candidacy of Roy Moore who had been accused of being a creep (or worse) toward young girls. Getting off topic, I suppose.
 
The seat would remain with the Democratic Party. I vaguely remember that he was further left and closer to the mold of Bernie Sanders (who is an Independent, not a Democrat- I know), for better or worse, so I don't think much love was lost between Al Franken and the more prominent and mainstream congressional Democrats. As I said before, this was also simultaneous with the controversy over the senate candidacy of Roy Moore who had been accused of being a creep (or worse) toward young girls. Getting off topic, I suppose.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're mistaken about this.

Franken wasn't anything like Bernie. Always a team player and from a midwest farm state. Always good on TV.

Cuomo was always seen having battles with Democrats in a very liberal state. In fact many mainstream Democrats thought Cuomo was a bit of a traitor making deals with the Republican minority in New York.
 
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're mistaken about this.

Franken wasn't anything like Bernie. Always a team player and from a midwest farm state. Always good on TV.

Cuomo was always seen having battles with Democrats in a very liberal state. In fact many mainstream Democrats thought Cuomo was a bit of a traitor making deals with the Republican minority in New York.

I appreciate this more elaborated response.
 
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're mistaken about this.

Franken wasn't anything like Bernie. Always a team player and from a midwest farm state. Always good on TV.

Cuomo was always seen having battles with Democrats in a very liberal state. In fact many mainstream Democrats thought Cuomo was a bit of a traitor making deals with the Republican minority in New York.

I'm probably misremembering Al Franken's rhetoric and record but I think he shouldn't have resigned before the ethics investigation and was pragmatically sacrificed by party leaders.

Like I said before, I didn't know much about Andrew Cuomo before March 2020.
 
I'm probably misremembering Al Franken's rhetoric and record but I think he shouldn't have resigned before the ethics investigation and was pragmatically sacrificed by party leaders.

Like I said before, I didn't know much about Andrew Cuomo before March 2020.

Honestly, I think Cuomo is a jerk. That doesn't mean I think he should go down for this. Just that he has a reputation as an ass hole. Franken has a reputation of being a teddy bear. And Franken wasn't sacrificed. He chose to step down.
 
Honestly, I think Cuomo is a jerk. That doesn't mean I think he should go down for this. Just that he has a reputation as an ass hole. Franken has a reputation of being a teddy bear. And Franken wasn't sacrificed. He chose to step down.

Well, he was under enormous pressure from the entire Democratic leadership. He might have dug in his heels and demanded a formal investigation, but it would have been lengthy and probably embarrassing. At least he got credit for taking responsibility. And as the evidence piles up about Cuomo, it looks like he's way more than a jerk. Concealing the evidence about covid deaths is probably criminal, and multiple women are accusing him of far worse behavior than the claims against Franken.
 
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Cuomo needs to do some prison time for killing old people. Who cares if he pinched a few buttocks?
 
Cuomo needs to do some prison time for killing old people. Who cares if he pinched a few buttocks?

If we're sending people to prison for causing old people to die from Covid-19, there's a certain former President that should be at the head of the line. Is this really where you want to go?
 
Cuomo needs to do some prison time for killing old people. Who cares if he pinched a few buttocks?

He should do time for both if he's guilty of it. Of course that idiot **** president we had until January 20th should do time for rather a number of things.
 
If we're sending people to prison for causing old people to die from Covid-19, there's a certain former President that should be at the head of the line. Is this really where you want to go?

If you could prove the case against Trump in court, I'd say sure. But his responsibility is more diffuse. Cuomo actually ordered nursing homes to accept covid-positive patients, resulting in measurable deaths.
 
If you could prove the case against Trump in court, I'd say sure. But his responsibility is more diffuse. Cuomo actually ordered nursing homes to accept covid-positive patients, resulting in measurable deaths.

They're both responsible for some deaths. We can point to actions by both that definitely increased the infection rate which led to more deaths. Had Trump acted with anything but his own self interest from the beginning, Cuomo may not have even had the chance for his deadly mistakes. On top of that, Trump is responsible for far more deaths than Cuomo.

All I'm saying is if we're going to start holding politicians accountable for Covid deaths, we should start at the top.
 
They're both responsible for some deaths. We can point to actions by both that definitely increased the infection rate which led to more deaths. Had Trump acted with anything but his own self interest from the beginning, Cuomo may not have even had the chance for his deadly mistakes. On top of that, Trump is responsible for far more deaths than Cuomo.

All I'm saying is if we're going to start holding politicians accountable for Covid deaths, we should start at the top.

I don't think the controversy over the nursing home deaths is just the order to house COVID-positive patients there. It's that the Cuomo administration may have illegally misrepresented, altered, or tampered with data provided to authorities or that some data was illegally withheld entirely. Is there any evidence or allegation that the Trump administration did something like this in a way that's legally actionable? Moreover, if the Cuomo administration was submitting incorrect information to the federal government then the Cuomo administration is primarily responsible for the resulting feedback and consequences (garbage in, garbage out).

The Trump administration sent respirators, built temporary hospitals, and, rather quickly, sent a hospital ship (that Rachel Maddow said would never get there). I remember mid-last year when there were questions being raised about how people from nursing homes may have been counted as hospital deaths if they were transferred there after infection. The Cuomo administration could have corrected what they were doing probably without much political consequence if they had been more scrutinized at the time and they could have blamed it on the fog of war that federal and state governments were all experiencing. Instead, the misconduct appears to have been allowed to compound.

Pure speculation follows: this freedom and latitude to compound misconduct upon misconduct was a result of the dereliction and malpractice of a significant proportion of the investigative journalism community who were incurious and who consciously or unconsciously made the cynical political calculation that negative press of the Cuomo administration might disillision enough Democratic voters to affect the presidential election. In contrast, they were and are always very curious about anything having to do with Trump or Republicans.

ETA: The Enron and Theranos scandals are somewhat analogous. The sort of people in financial journalism that should have noticed that these companies were ponzi schemes, lies, or houses of cards didn't notice for years, probably because, on some level, they didn't want to notice. They might have offended someone in the company and lost access. They might have lost the respect or adulation of their peers. An inbred, incestous mess with predictably disastrous consequences.

Another ETA: It seems that Andrew Cuomo's press conferences should have become a mirror of the Trump press conferences where he received relentless, hardball, antagonistic, scornful questions about the administration's COVID response and record. Many would say that this posture toward Trump by the press was warranted but now we're learning, much too late, that it may have been warranted but conspicuously absent with regard to Andrew Cuomo. I remember that he might have gotten one question about the nursing home deaths per press conference and his response would always be variations of "ask the federal government, we followed their guidelines" (in the characteristic measured, confident, assertive style he became nationally acclaimed for) without any aggressive probing or followup.
 
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yeah, if you think about, Trump is actually the victim here. Democrats and journalists are to blame.
 
I don't think the controversy over the nursing home deaths is just the order to house COVID-positive patients there. It's that the Cuomo administration may have illegally misrepresented, altered, or tampered with data provided to authorities or that some data was illegally withheld entirely. Is there any evidence or allegation that the Trump administration did something like this in a way that's legally actionable? Moreover, if the Cuomo administration was submitting incorrect information to the federal government then the Cuomo administration is primarily responsible for the resulting feedback and consequences (garbage in, garbage out).

Trump, representing the federal government and by his own admission was "misrepresenting" data, withholding it entirely, or outright telling the public the opposite of the factual data. There is no may about that. Given our recent discourse, I'm certain that your choice of information providers is not providing you with a neutral or accurate accounting of the Trump or the Cuomo situations.

The Trump administration sent respirators, built temporary hospitals, and, rather quickly, sent a hospital ship (that Rachel Maddow said would never get there). I remember mid-last year when there were questions being raised about how people from nursing homes may have been counted as hospital deaths if they were transferred there after infection. The Cuomo administration could have corrected what they were doing probably without much political consequence if they had been more scrutinized at the time and they could have blamed it on the fog of war that federal and state governments were all experiencing. Instead, the misconduct appears to have been allowed to compound.

The Trump administration first told states they were on their own for respirators, then actively bid against those (blue) states attempting to purchase their own respirators, and finally simply swooped in and took respirators already paid for by and promised to those states.

Your whitewashed tale ignores what was going on between the Trump administration and the states in the first several months of the pandemic, the months of inaction and counterproductive action that allowed the pandemic to spread so far and bad information to take root in the heads of his followers that they still believe today.

<uninformed speculation snipped>

Another ETA: It seems that Andrew Cuomo's press conferences should have become a mirror of the Trump press conferences where he received relentless, hardball, antagonistic, scornful questions about the administration's COVID response and record. Many would say that this posture toward Trump by the press was warranted but now we're learning, much too late, that it may have been warranted but conspicuously absent with regard to Andrew Cuomo. I remember that he might have gotten one question about the nursing home deaths per press conference and his response would always be variations of "ask the federal government, we followed their guidelines" (in the characteristic measured, confident, assertive style he became nationally acclaimed for) without any aggressive probing or followup.

Yeah, as others have pointed out it takes some real chutzpah to claim Trump is the real victim here.
 
Trump, representing the federal government and by his own admission was "misrepresenting" data, withholding it entirely, or outright telling the public the opposite of the factual data. There is no may about that. Given our recent discourse, I'm certain that your choice of information providers is not providing you with a neutral or accurate accounting of the Trump or the Cuomo situations.

I may be mistaken, but I imagine that submitting misrepresented, altered, or tampered data or withholding data from a federal agency might place Andrew Cuomo and/or Cuomo administration officials in legal jeopardy. That's the point you've chosen to ignore that's relevant to this thread. Trump can be criticized elsewhere.

The Trump administration first told states they were on their own for respirators, then actively bid against those (blue) states attempting to purchase their own respirators, and finally simply swooped in and took respirators already paid for by and promised to those states.

Your whitewashed tale ignores what was going on between the Trump administration and the states in the first several months of the pandemic, the months of inaction and counterproductive action that allowed the pandemic to spread so far and bad information to take root in the heads of his followers that they still believe today.

Trump can be criticized elsewhere but these are fair points.

Yeah, as others have pointed out it takes some real chutzpah to claim Trump is the real victim here.

I don't think I did that but I accept that you perceive it that way. The point relevant to this thread that you've chosen to ignore are the Cuomo administration's specific potential legal jeopardies with regard to COVID data. I'll try to stop mentioning Trump since it distracts from the topic.
 
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I may be mistaken, but I imagine that submitting misrepresented, altered, or tampered data or withholding data from a federal agency might place Andrew Cuomo and/or Cuomo administration officials in legal jeopardy. That's the point you've chosen to ignore that's relevant to this thread. Trump can be criticized elsewhere.



Trump can be criticized elsewhere but these are fair points.



I don't think I did that but I accept that you perceive it that way. The point relevant to this thread that you've chosen to ignore are the Cuomo administration's specific potential legal jeopardies with regard to COVID data. I'll try to stop mentioning Trump since it distracts from the topic.

Yes, I brought up Trump to hilight where threatening to jail politicians who mishandled the Covid response would lead. I can certainly understand why you would prefer we ignore the facts about Trump to focus on mays, mights, and potentials about Cuomo that don't appear to be well grounded in the facts.
 

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