The case against Dr. Paul

[Richard Masters]

I love the progression...

1) Ron Paul is winning the internet polls!! The people are finally being heard!!! The common man is wise so Paul is nifty!!!
2) Ron Paul got ripped off in New Hampshire. He really is popular and stuff.
3) Ron Paul got trounced in Florida. People are morons.

And you are basing this on the comments of one individual?

 

[gambling_cruiser]

Do you really believe the LIHOP/MIHOP nonsense about Pearl Harbour?

 

[Drudgewire]

The same could be said about you. If you are not willing question the "facts", or make comments more meaningful than generalizations by labeling everything a CT, then you probably shouldn't be taken seriously.

Yeah, labeling conspiracy theories conspiracy theories? On a skeptic's forum that has debunked said conspiracy theory about a thousand times?

We should all be ashamed of ourselves.

 

[dudalb]

Do you really believe the LIHOP/MIHOP nonsense about Pearl Harbour?

Sadly, a lot of Libertarians do.
That is one reason why,though I have a lot of sympathy with the idea of limited government,I am not a Libertarian.

 

[Dr. Lao]

I love the progression...

1) Ron Paul is winning the internet polls!! The people are finally being heard!!! The common man is wise so Paul is nifty!!!
2) Ron Paul got ripped off in New Hampshire. He really is popular and stuff.
3) Ron Paul got trounced in Florida. People are morons.

You left out the next one.

The "joos and neocons stole this election from us!!!"

 

[leftysergeant]

Dollar lost 95% of it's value?

Does that mean that we are way poorer as a people than we were in 1908, or is this part of the usual assertion that all inflation is bad?

That is the whole lesson learned, that controlled inflation can help an economy through a rough patch...

Inflation is only good if wages rise with prices. When inflation increases because some moron decides to borrow money from the next three generations to create the illusion that we are well off, it hurts everybody, long-term.

When the man controlling the money supply thinks that it is his job to keep working people worried about their employment prospects if they don't go along with the corporate program, we have a problem.

The Fed needs to be reigned in, but not by abolishing it and letting the corporations decide the monetary policies for the country, which is what Libertarianism would lead to.

 

[Corsair 115]

I think we can all agree here that the US government knew that the direction they chose would lead the USA to war and they didn't mind the slightest.

Why do you leave Japan's actions out of the picture? Or was the slapping a trade embargo on Japan in response to its brutal military occupation of China not a legitimate U.S. action?

The government was ready before Pearl Harbor, but after Pearl Harbor, the public was ready and that's what this is all about, PH's significance.

Yes, allowing five of one's capital ships to be sunk or otherwise put of action, and allowing three others to be damaged, allowing many fighter and patrol aircraft to be destroyed and the airfields damaged, and allowing some 2,400 personnel to be killed, yeah, that's the government being ready!

 

[Suddenly]

Inflation is only good if wages rise with prices. When inflation increases because some moron decides to borrow money from the next three generations to create the illusion that we are well off, it hurts everybody, long-term.

When the man controlling the money supply thinks that it is his job to keep working people worried about their employment prospects if they don't go along with the corporate program, we have a problem.

The Fed needs to be reigned in, but not by abolishing it and letting the corporations decide the monetary policies for the country, which is what Libertarianism would lead to.

I tend to agree, although I think Libertarians would mostly let mining companies determine monetary policy, with the fixation on pretty metal and all.

If nothing else, it isn't that inflation is always good, as it is that deflation is far worse. A dollar that is worth more tommorrow than today would cripple the economy...

 

[Suddenly]

Yes, allowing five of one's capital ships to be sunk or otherwise put of action, and allowing three others to be damaged, allowing many fighter and patrol aircraft to be destroyed and the airfields damaged, and allowing some 2,400 personnel to be killed, yeah, that's the government being ready!

That is just what they want you to think. In reality the army and a crew of scientists managed to poke a hole in space/time and bring an aircraft carrier back from the '80s to stop the attack, but just before they were about to launch FDR ordered them to reverse the process and send the carrier back to real time. The army had things under control until then.

(Or am I confusing reality with a movie again?)

 

[dash]

Dollar lost 95% of it's value?

Does that mean that we are way poorer as a people than we were in 1908, or is this part of the usual assertion that all inflation is bad?

That is the whole lesson learned, that controlled inflation can help an economy through a rough patch...

We're speaking hypothetically. The true periods of explosive economic growth in the USA were when we had a strong, stable currency. Constantly devalued currency (leading to price inflation) sends the wrong signals to businesses and consumers alike. It's like a narcotic. It lets us think we have a higher level of prosperity than we actually have.

Savings are what allow for wise investments in, for example, innovative new businesses. With the USA savings rate so ridiculously low, investment comes from the government and from the banking bureaucracy. It's not conducive to real progress. Face it, the USA has become a socialist empire.

Ron Paul? I like his message. The USA is in for a big letdown. Even Ron Paul can't save us. But in the aftermath, a guy like Ron Paul would be much better than anyone else. The answer isn't more government, more regulation, more taxes. It's basically the elimination of the federal government, entitlements, endless war.

Yipe. I don't want to get drawn into a political debate. I just like Ron Paul. He probably won't win, but he still gets my vote. I'm happy to throw it away. For me it's a choice between Ron Paul and Other. They're all the same. Spend in order to get reelected. Ron Paul at least has a perfect voting record. Is it allowed for in the constitution? If no, vote no. Even if the public wants it. I'm sick of the nanny government.

-Dave

 

[Matteo Martini]

Without spending most part of the 500BUSD+per year on the military & associated, every adult American could have saved 2000USD per year in (not having to pay) taxes.

 

[Suddenly]

We're speaking hypothetically. The true periods of explosive economic growth in the USA were when we had a strong, stable currency. Constantly devalued currency (leading to price inflation) sends the wrong signals to businesses and consumers alike. It's like a narcotic. It lets us think we have a higher level of prosperity than we actually have.

Savings are what allow for wise investments in, for example, innovative new businesses. With the USA savings rate so ridiculously low, investment comes from the government and from the banking bureaucracy. It's not conducive to real progress. Face it, the USA has become a socialist empire.

Ron Paul? I like his message. The USA is in for a big letdown. Even Ron Paul can't save us. But in the aftermath, a guy like Ron Paul would be much better than anyone else. The answer isn't more government, more regulation, more taxes. It's basically the elimination of the federal government, entitlements, endless war.

Yipe. I don't want to get drawn into a political debate. I just like Ron Paul. He probably won't win, but he still gets my vote. I'm happy to throw it away. For me it's a choice between Ron Paul and Other. They're all the same. Spend in order to get reelected. Ron Paul at least has a perfect voting record. Is it allowed for in the constitution? If no, vote no. Even if the public wants it. I'm sick of the nanny government.

-Dave

When people hark back to the good old days of the 19th century before the fed made us all into poor slaves to the evil commie government, I curse the fact that most history taught in this country is so bad to be criminal. Little is taught about what it was like to be in the bottom rung of society during one of the periodic depressions pre-fed. Mostly it is a crapfest of how great Lincoln was, that America was perfect and never did anything like invade countries to help, say, fruit companies keep a strong hold on labor... nah... Just that we bravely launched a war against Spain to, well, take over their territory and so misgovern one of them that it went communist...

Not to mention the nature of state laws and how the poor and minorities were treated before the federal government stepped in to force a basic level of equal protection and due process. Part of this was because the poorer classes were often spilling into violent demonstrations that threatened revolution, so there were laws. It is still on the books here that you cannot fly a black flag...

Just sad.

 

[Suddenly]

Without spending most part of the 500BUSD+per year on the military & associated, every adult American could have saved 2000USD per year in (not having to pay) taxes.

If I didn't have to pay rent this year I'd have saved $7,200.

Only 2K? That makes me think better of the Iraq war.

Thanks...

 

[dash]

Not to mention the nature of state laws and how the poor and minorities were treated before the federal government stepped in to force a basic level of equal protection and due process. Part of this was because the poorer classes were often spilling into violent demonstrations that threatened revolution, so there were laws. It is still on the books here that you cannot fly a black flag...

I just don't like socialism. The American public seems to believe it can get something for nothing. So they get the government to pay for it. Where does the money come from? From devaluing the savings of anyone holding dollars. It's a hidden tax. It's a state operated counterfeiting scheme. Besides which the government borrows money from other nations that have trade surplusses with the US. This certainly can't go on forever. These other countries are going to want stuff of real value, not just pieces of paper. The government can never pay off the huge accumulated national debt. It can only devalue the dollar and make it evaporate. But at what cost?

The federal government can never pay for social security. The baby boomers are starting to retire this year. The federal government is bankrupt! Keep your eye on the price of gold. It's gone up, and up, and up ever since before Bush came into office. The US stock market has stagnated compared to gold and silver, and lots of emerging nations.

The US economy is toast. Socialism doesn't work -- the soviet union proved that. We seem to be slipping into that good night. Oh well. Some things need to be learned the hard way.

Read about Exter's Pyramid and the flight to safety. Read about Kondratieff cycles. The US is in its winter phase. All fiat currencies (paper not backed by anything) have historically always failed, government simply cannot be trusted not to destroy the currency in the effort to get elected.

Anyway just keep your eyes open in the months/years to come. You'll see how it all comes out. The mainstream media is starting to cover the economy a bit.

-Dave

 

[HereticHulk]

Ron Paul supporters fit into at least one of 4 categories:
1. 9/11 Truthers.
2. Anti-Fed/gold standard loons.
3. People who are convinced there is a secret push for a NAU, and that NAFTA is the first step.
4. White supremacists who think Ron Paul's denials vis-a-vis the newsletters and donations come with a wink and a nod.

If there's Ron Paul supporters who don't fit into one of these groups they are few and far between, thus the <5% support for him.


Your pathetic denial.


Yes, supported with your own quotes made on this very forum.


You, apparently.

Why do you hate America?

 

[WildCat]

I just don't like socialism. The American public seems to believe it can get something for nothing. So they get the government to pay for it. Where does the money come from? From devaluing the savings of anyone holding dollars.

And who "holds dollars"? Do you keep them stashed under your mattress?

It's a hidden tax. It's a state operated counterfeiting scheme.

100% wrong. If you really think that, I'd be happy to take all those worthless counterfeit bills off your hands, I'll even spring for the postage! For some reason, no Ron Paul supporters have taken me up on that offer yet, I wonder why?

Besides which the government borrows money from other nations that have trade surplusses with the US. This certainly can't go on forever.

Why not?

These other countries are going to want stuff of real value, not just pieces of paper.

In that case they're SOL, because the bonds they bought are payable in dollars.

The government can never pay off the huge accumulated national debt. It can only devalue the dollar and make it evaporate. But at what cost?

You tell me... the country seems to be wealthier than at any point in its history. In fact, the US economy today is worth 13 times the value of all the gold in the entire world! Maybe you'll be the first Ron Paul supporter to explain how gold will finance today's economy?

The federal government can never pay for social security. The baby boomers are starting to retire this year.

You may have a point there, but the value of the dollar has nothing to do with it.

The federal government is bankrupt! Keep your eye on the price of gold. It's gone up, and up, and up ever since before Bush came into office. The US stock market has stagnated compared to gold and silver, and lots of emerging nations.

So buy gold and silver if you wish, there's no shortage of people who will happily exchange their gold and silver for those counterfeit dollars you have. But don't come crying to me when the gold market tanks like it always does. At some point, people tire of liking something just because it's shiny and heavy.

The US economy is toast. Socialism doesn't work -- the soviet union proved that. We seem to be slipping into that good night. Oh well. Some things need to be learned the hard way.

Read about Exter's Pyramid and the flight to safety. Read about Kondratieff cycles. The US is in its winter phase. All fiat currencies (paper not backed by anything) have historically always failed, government simply cannot be trusted not to destroy the currency in the effort to get elected.

Wait, now you want all other countries to use gold also? Where will it come from?

Anyway just keep your eyes open in the months/years to come. You'll see how it all comes out. The mainstream media is starting to cover the economy a bit.

-Dave

And for some reason no country is contemplating using shiny metal to base their economy on. Maybe sea shells would be better?

 

[WildCat]

Why do you hate America?

 

[dash]

And who "holds dollars"? Do you keep them stashed under your mattress?

...

100% wrong. If you really think that, I'd be happy to take all those worthless counterfeit bills off your hands, I'll even spring for the postage! For some reason, no Ron Paul supporters have taken me up on that offer yet, I wonder why?

If you have bonds, you hold dollars. The bonds have fixed yields. Some 20 trillion dollars in bonds are held by Americans. When the dollar is devalued, this money evaporates.

This wealth is like a huge croud in a burning building. Some people near the exit can save themselves. Most are going to burn to death. It's a question of whether the place blows up in flames, or whether they just get slowly baked. Either way the vast majority is going to be wiped out.

Regarding the conterfeiting, the point is that by creating more dollars out of thin air, that makes all dollars in circulation worth that much less. That's the essence of inflation.

During the 1971 to 1980 period gold went from some $42 per ounce to up over $800. All the conditions are worse now than then.

I know this is scary stuff, hard for you to believe. It's because the government has been cooking the numbers. The economy is crashing even as we speak. You need to study about economics more -- real economics, not the Keynsian voodoo economics taught in colleges and promoted by the Federal Reserve. Read "Crash Proof" by Peter Schiff. There is no safety in numbers. The middle class in the USA is going to get royally screwed over. It's actually ongoing.

Pay attention to the housing bubble. ARM mortgage defaults. Fixed rate mortgage defaults. They're all ballooning. The derivatives scandals have only just begun. The whole mess is unwinding. Some 400-500 trillion dollars in derivatives are getting wiped out.

Anyway you made a point about gold backing. There is a really good chance precious metals will get accepted as monetary metals again.

I suggest reading Jason Hommel's various essays here:

http://www.silverstockreport.com/ssrarchive.htm
He's a real silver enthusiast, but he's got a lot of useful information on the economy. Take a look at
http://www.europac.net/
Read the articles in the "Economic & Market News" it's a story of doom and gloom. The mainstream media is just beginning to cover this stuff.

In times of economic upheaval, gold will always be remembered.

This stuff is real, I'm not making it up. Do your own research.

-Dave

 

[Matteo Martini]

If I didn't have to pay rent this year I'd have saved $7,200.

Only 2K? That makes me think better of the Iraq war.

Thanks...

If you like to waste your money this way..

 

[Corsair 115]

Socialism doesn't work -- the soviet union proved that.

Really? What about Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the countries of Europe? How are they doing?