The case against Dr. Paul

[sirtuin]

That to me is significant in itself. The "North American Union" and "NAFTA superhighway" stuff is demonstrably false, and yet Mr. Paul apparently buys into it. This is not good.

These sorts of myths can do real damage to trade if enough folks start believing the myth.

www dot theonion.com/content/node/27842


www dot infratrans.gov.ab.ca/2760.htm


Move along citizens, nothing to see here.


i9 dot tinypic.com/6khkmt3.gif

 

[WildCat]

www dot theonion.com/content/node/27842

Here's your fixed link: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27842

You really linked to an Onion article? Why yes you did!

 

[NeoRicen]

www dot theonion.com/content/node/27842


www dot infratrans.gov.ab.ca/2760.htm


Move along citizens, nothing to see here.


i9 dot tinypic.com/6khkmt3.gif

You ACTUALLY posted a link to The Onion....

 

[mortimer]

www dot theonion.com/content/node/27842


www dot infratrans.gov.ab.ca/2760.htm


Move along citizens, nothing to see here.


i9 dot tinypic.com/6khkmt3.gif

Damn, that huge overpass runs just 60 miles east of my house. Wonder why I never heard of it before. Sneaky Canucks!

 

[Patejdl]

I've got these 3 questions.

1. Is it probable that there is someone in Canada, Mexico or US who beleive in principles similar to the EU and want to apply these principles or just promote them? Let's say normal people, business owners, lawyers, senators or congressmen.

2. Are these principles/ideas such a bad idea?? There definitely are some pros but so definitely some cons.

3. If there was an official non-secretive NAU campaign similar to the style that they do the EU thingm, would you support it??

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Here's your fixed link: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27842

You really linked to an Onion article? Why yes you did!

U.S. Protests Mexi-Canadian Overpass

 

[delphi_ote]

You ACTUALLY posted a link to The Onion....

It's official. The entire internet just jumped the shark.

 

[CaptainManacles]

That to me is significant in itself. The "North American Union" and "NAFTA superhighway" stuff is demonstrably false, and yet Mr. Paul apparently buys into it. This is not good.

These sorts of myths can do real damage to trade if enough folks start believing the myth.

could you demonstrate that this stuff is false?

 

[Corsair 115]

could you demonstrate that this stuff is false?

Let's start with the alleged "NAFTA superhighway." From an article in Maclean's magazine:

In search of the NAFTA highway to hell.

Note that Maclean's is a Canadian magazine, and there are few nations in the world more concernced and worried about its own sovereignty and identity than Canada. So if something was up that threatened our sovereignty and identity, we'd be the first to mention it.

 

[CaptainManacles]

Let's start with the alleged "NAFTA superhighway." From an article in Maclean's magazine:

In search of the NAFTA highway to hell.

Note that Maclean's is a Canadian magazine, and there are few nations in the world more concernced and worried about its own sovereignty and identity than Canada. So if something was up that threatened our sovereignty and identity, we'd be the first to mention it.

thanks

 

[dudalb]

You ACTUALLY posted a link to The Onion....

Hey, I have posted links to the Onion in my time but not as a serious source of information.
I guess there is no bottom to the stupidity of the Paul supporters.
And I love that dash is so enthusiatic about an Authoritarian regime like China dominating the world.

 

[dash]

And I love that dash is so enthusiatic about an Authoritarian regime like China dominating the world.

I will respond to this one.

dudalb, I haven't bothered to respond anything posted by you and your "clique" beyond the first few days, because there is no point. You have labelled me as just another woo spouter, and you don't take my writing seriously. I will write something here, now, because I'm bored and in a talkative mood, and perhaps there is an opportunity to spread some knowledge.

I'd like to take a moment to defend myself. If you look at my homepage you will find my resume, I am an experienced computer programmer, and I've shared a lot of open source linux software. I've also been a vice president and I've had as many as 12 people reporting to me. I'm 41, married with two kids. I'm a real person. I've been a success at life. I'm posting under my real identity. On the other hand, you, WildCat and Suddenly don't seem to have any real identity at all. My guess is you're either in high school or college, but I have no real idea.

You don't really reach the level of success and maturity I've managed to enjoy by believing any crazy thing that comes along. A healthy amount of skepticism is necessary for success. Whatever way my mind operates, it leads to success. Take that into consideration.

Within the past several months I've come to the conclusion the US economy is in the toilet, it's collapsing even as we speak. We're in the middle of a recession which will become a prolonged depression. The details are coming out all the time in the news, they can't be hidden anymore.

But all government officials and most economists say we're doing fine. Inflation is under control, the housing market wasn't a bubble, unemployment is within tolerable levels, the GDP is growing...how can these two conflicting viewpoints be resolved?

Most people choose to trust the government and all the mainstream economists. Propaganda works. That's an important point. But if you are able to gather the bits and pieces together, you can get at the underlying reality of the situation. You can get a coherent picture of the disaster the economy is right now. It is absolutely consistent, it is reminiscent of the 1970's (only much worse) and it fits in with a historical sense. Everything is falling into place. I've touched upon this in some of my postings here. But the reality of the situation is for anyone to believe this dark picture of reality, they'll have to do their own digging and confirmation. It is a difficult task.

The inescapable conclusion is that the american public is being lied to on a horrendous scale. And the deeper you dig, the more lies you find. You find endless, simply endless corruption throughout government. The war on Iraq, the demonization of Iran, the lies about the economy. The whole thing is a massive web of deceipt and lies. Americans are programmed from birth that we're the best, we have the best culture, we're the good guys in every war, our way of life is superior, etc.

The inescapable conclusion is that we're not the good guys anymore We're the bad guys in the world. As a nation we're an immoral monster, completely out of control.

I can read the constitution. I see the laws that are being enforced by the federal government. They're unconstitutional. Yet they exist, and are enforced. The federal judges are not doing their job, they're not knocking down unconstitutional laws. Somehow they've been corrupted. GW Bush has committed endless high crimes and misdemeanors, yet he remains unimpeachable. Ditto for Cheney. All these things are undeniable, and right out in the open, and perfectly visible.

You remark that I relish a change to control of the Chinese dictatorship. But what you don't realize is that if one has already come to the conclusion that our government and media has lied through their teeth, to an unbelievable extent, how can they really know for sure China is an evil empire? China is a socialist dictatorship, supposedly. But the USA is a socialist fascist state. The people aren't in control in the USA, the government is controlled by special interests. Big business. Deep pockets.

I've seen how the Bush administration has demonized Iran, and I know what a complete and utter fabrication this is. I know the real purpose is to prevent Iran from selling their oil for currencies besides dollars, as Iraq was going to do under Saddam. Iran never had a nuclear weapons program as of several years ago, Bush knew this, but he still tried to make the claim we'd better bomb them otherwise they'll get the bomb. He tried painting it like the ongoing trouble in Iraq is really a fight with Iran, taking place in Iraq (because Iran is supporting the terrorists in Iraq by selling them arms and doing training). This "spin" has been exposed as a lie.

So basically I can't trust our government at all. So I ignore them. If they say China is an evil dictatorship, it is meaningless. It doesn't mean China IS one, it doesn't mean China ISN'T one. It's just another piece of information to be ignored. If the question of China being a dictatorship is important, I must determine the truth through some other means besides listening to what the USA government says.

It comes down to this: I know my government is a liar. If the lies end up bringing down the USA from within, then isn't that proof positive "The American Way" isn't the best? If China is able to acquire the USA financially, sort of an economic takeover, isn't that proof that they're superior? As such, shouldn't we look upon this as a chance to learn from them?

Today's world runs on economics, not bullets. The world markets decide success or failure, not wars. The US is caught up in the old way of doing things. China and other countries have realized the future does not involve warfare. They're beating us through economic means. It's a situation the USA has been unable to deal with. Those in the know in our government have just willingly sold out, for personal gain.

So I rejoice not because I love the idea of having to live under Chinese rule, but because I love the idea of a well deserved collapse of a system based on corruption and lies. I love it because I have a very strongly warped sense of justice. The chickens are coming home to roost. And I'm lucky enough to understand the big picture, and am able to take advantage of it in a financial sense.

As an example, in the end of October 2007, just about 4 months ago, I bought silver for about $13 per ounce. It is now $18 per ounce. That is a 38% increase over 4 months. That translates to a 163% annual return. That is no accident. It is perfectly predictable based on a complete understanding of the true economic situation we're in.

How do you explain this economic windfall, actually? Note that it isn't just silver. Gold has gone up a similiar amount. Platinum has recently shot up through the stratosphere, but for different reasons all its own.

Your tactic can't simply be to avoid really delving into the issues I raise, and instead embark on an attempt to discredit me, can it?

I've said this before, no matter what your situation is, you can as an individual profit by the current economic crisis. You can invest, even if you don't have any money saved. All you need is credit. Use your credit card to buy american silver eagles, they're one ounce each, .999% pure. Or gold eagles. Or blocks of silver on E-Bay. Just buy something real and tangible with your dollars before they're worthless. You'll find the value of your purchase will go up, way up, and even if you want to protect your "credit rating" you will be able to by selling part of your purchase back and paying off the balance.

-Dave

 

[Corsair 115]

But all government officials and most economists say we're doing fine.

So most economists are lying? Why? How do they profit from that?

Most people choose to trust the government and all the mainstream economists.

What's the definition of a "mainstream" economist?

You can get a coherent picture of the disaster the economy is right now. It is absolutely consistent, it is reminiscent of the 1970's (only much worse) and it fits in with a historical sense.

Hmmm, let's see, in the latter part of 1982 the unemployment rate was 10.8%, and the prime interest rate was 21.5%. In 1980 the inflation rate was 13.5%.

Those numbers don't seem comparable at all to current values for these categories.

I can read the constitution. I see the laws that are being enforced by the federal government. They're unconstitutional.

So you're a constitutional law authority? Might I enquire as to how many years of experience you have had studying and practicing law which allow you to render such a definitive, authoritative verdict?

I've seen how the Bush administration has demonized Iran, and I know what a complete and utter fabrication this is.

Good news — the Bush administration will be out of office in early 2009.

I know the real purpose is to prevent Iran from selling their oil for currencies besides dollars, as Iraq was going to do under Saddam.

That does not seem to be stopping Iran from selling its petroleum to interested buyers. Nor does it seem to be stopping any other petroleum exporting nation from sellings its petroleum to interested purchasers.

Today's world runs on economics, not bullets. The world markets decide success or failure, not wars. The US is caught up in the old way of doing things. China and other countries have realized the future does not involve warfare. They're beating us through economic means.

And it is not in their interests to see a recession in the United States since it means a decline in their own economic fortunes. The U.S. economy still matters a great deal on the world stage.

As an example, in the end of October 2007, just about 4 months ago, I bought silver for about $13 per ounce. It is now $18 per ounce. That is a 38% increase over 4 months.

As the prospectuses of many a mutual fund state, past performance does not guarantee future performance. This is especially true in commodities.

Gold has gone up a similiar amount.

I recall wry amusement those folks who bought gold in early 1980, when it hit a high of $850 an ounce and it seemed it would only keep going up, up, and up. It was twenty-eight years before that numeric high was reached again. But it's actually much worse than than, since the 1980 high, adjusted for inflation, would be about $2,398 in 2007 dollars.

Looks like anyone who bought gold near or at the high in 1980 still has a long wait before recouping their losses.

 

[dash]

I recall wry amusement those folks who bought gold in early 1980, when it hit a high of $850 an ounce and it seemed it would only keep going up, up, and up. It was twenty-eight years before that numeric high was reached again. But it's actually much worse than than, since the 1980 high, adjusted for inflation, would be about $2,398 in 2007 dollars.

Looks like anyone who bought gold near or at the high in 1980 still has a long wait before recouping their losses.

This argument has been done to death. The truth of the matter is the wise gold investors of the 1970's rode gold up, up, up all the way to the 1980 peak, as more and more people cimbed on board. The early adopters were the ones to benefit the most. Those latest to the table were the ones stuck holding the bag. Only the fools held gold from 1980 to today, the same sort of people that buy google at $700 and ride it down to $350. We're still very early in this particular commodoties boom. Gold and silver have only just started their rise. You make a very good point about the gold price being very low when adjusted for inflation. That means we're nowhere near the top of this run.

The fact is if you understand the whole picture, silver + gold rising is no mystery at all. The conditions that lead to the rise are ongoing, and accelerating. When those conditions cease to exist, the same people that knew when to invest in these things will know to get out of them.

-Dave

 

[Elizabeth I]

You don't really reach the level of success and maturity I've managed to enjoy by believing any crazy thing that comes along. A healthy amount of skepticism is necessary for success. Whatever way my mind operates, it leads to success. Take that into consideration.

Most people choose to trust the government and all the mainstream economists. Propaganda works.

So...we must accept that you are right, the proof being that you are successful? That must mean propaganda is also right because it is successful. ["Propaganda works."]

So I rejoice not because I love the idea of having to live under Chinese rule, but because I love the idea of a well deserved collapse of a system based on corruption and lies. I love it because I have a very strongly warped sense of justice. The chickens are coming home to roost. And I'm lucky enough to understand the big picture, and am able to take advantage of it in a financial sense.

As an example, in the end of October 2007, just about 4 months ago, I bought silver for about $13 per ounce. It is now $18 per ounce. That is a 38% increase over 4 months. That translates to a 163% annual return. That is no accident. It is perfectly predictable based on a complete understanding of the true economic situation we're in.

According to you the country is going to hell in the proverbial handbasket and your reaction is to personally profit by it?

Your highly moral and principled stand on this issue is truly breathtaking. [/sarcasm]

I love it because I have a very strongly warped sense of justice.

"Warped" is certainly the mot juste in this context.

 

[dash]

According to you the country is going to hell in the proverbial handbasket and your reaction is to personally profit by it?

Your highly moral and principled stand on this issue is truly breathtaking. [/sarcasm]

What an odd thing to say.

So, would it be more moral to go broke and into the poorhouse with the rest of the population? To drown with the rest of the poor rats when the ship goes down?

Please explain what one should do, to be moral, in this context? I'm all ears.

-Dave

 

[Suddenly]

I will respond to this one.

I'd like to take a moment to defend myself. If you look at my homepage you will find my resume, I am an experienced computer programmer, and I've shared a lot of open source linux software. I've also been a vice president and I've had as many as 12 people reporting to me. I'm 41, married with two kids. I'm a real person. I've been a success at life. I'm posting under my real identity. On the other hand, you, WildCat and Suddenly don't seem to have any real identity at all. My guess is you're either in high school or college, but I have no real idea.

You don't really reach the level of success and maturity I've managed to enjoy by believing any crazy thing that comes along. A healthy amount of skepticism is necessary for success. Whatever way my mind operates, it leads to success. Take that into consideration.

Success at one thing does not justify claims of experience at another. I hold lives in my hands on an everyday basis and am recognized as an expert in my field. If I pointed to my success and track record as to back my beliefs in something like computer science or physics or anything other than my field of expertise, I'd be rightly labeled a crank. Ron Paul being a doctor is a wonderful example.

My identity is a loosely hidden fact. Anyone who has read my posts can figure out who I am, and those that know my handle over at skepticalcommunity can find out in a hurry. I just don't feel the need to beat people over the head with my credentials as my expertise is only relevant to my field and as such an appeal to my authority is generally not needed as my answers will usually speak for themselves.

Anyway, that I'm in a clique with Wildcat is pretty funny seeing we rarely post in the same threads and when we do we usually disagree....

 

[WildCat]

Anyway, that I'm in a clique with Wildcat is pretty funny seeing we rarely post in the same threads and when we do we usually disagree....

I agree.

 

[dudalb]

Please explain how being a sucessful computer programmer makes you an expert on economics.

 

[dudalb]

So I rejoice not because I love the idea of having to live under Chinese rule, but because I love the idea of a well deserved collapse of a system based on corruption and lies. I love it because I have a very strongly warped sense of justice. The chickens are coming home to roost. And I'm lucky enough to understand the big picture, and am able to take advantage of it in a financial sense.

God,you sound like one of the "heros" in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged.
Having a little Frederick Nietzsche Superman Fantasy, are we?