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The Buddha Was Wrong - Reloaded

All in all, an annoying read. I think the author needs some formal courses in writing, and some feel for what vocabulary style is appropriate for such a treatise. The style feels very sophomoric, with words like "crap", and overuse of certain terms like "irrelevant". Weak or non-existing arguments...too many grammatical errors to take it seriously. No I'm not a Buddhist.
 
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No, that is a cheesey cliche that white people like to use to excuse their ignorance of zen tenets.

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Be civil and polite.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: prewitt81

Actually it's the central message of the school of buddhism I am a member of: Dogen Sangha. There is a book called sit down and shut up by the head of dogen sangha - Brad Warner.
 
Once a group of monks sat in the meditation hall doing zazen. The roshi of their monastery paced through the hall with the stick he used to enforce discipline.

One after the other, the monks were sleeping. Some slumped this way, some that, some sat propped against each other, snoring. Only the last monk in the row was not sleeping. Instead, he was visibly approching Extreme Ultimate Enlightenment. A blaze of celestial light surrounded him; apparitions of deities encircled him; the music of the Universe could be heard; a Bump of Enlightenment appeared on the crown of his head.

The monk began to levitate, rising toward Nirvana on a miraculous lotus blossom. When he had risen to a convenient height, the roshi struck him a two-handed blow with his stick.

In an instant, the heavenly visions vanished. The light evaporated. The deities disappeared, as did the Bump and the miraculous lotus blossom. The monk crashed to the floor of the zendo, fully awakened from his spiritual state.

“But, but – honored roshi!” cried the monk. “I almost achieved Extreme Ultimate Enlightenment! Why did you strike me? Why did you waken me?”

“Take a nap like the others,” replied the roshi. “It will clear you mind.”
 
I give good reason for that.

THey are beyond reason and no amount of debate will change their mind. They are on par with christians muslims and jews which i state at the start of the book i wont waste a minute of my time arguing their madness.

It wouldnt be hard to tackle the philosophical basis of mahayana. But i will waste no time on the religous group.


Truely it is very easy, it comes down to the definition of "the buddha's teachings', since most of the mahayana is based upon post Gautama teachings it has little to do wth the teaching of the alleged historical buddha.
 
onemind,

Lets overlook the mahayana section for arguments sake and discuss rebirth, nirvana and emptiness :P

After years of scientific study on meditation, it has shown to be extremely unreliable and can even worsen the effects of depression, anxiety and other mental disorders in some people with extreme cases ending in suicide.

To begin with, it is certainly true that there are many things in Buddhism which are difficult, if not impossible, to prove. The literal interpretation of rebirth is one of them. I know of no way in which to scientifically prove or verify that this phenomena is at all possible—all of the most convicing evidence I have seen in support of this possibility has been in the form of case studies and first-hand accounts. Nevertheless, rebirth is an important part of Buddhism. In Buddhist cosmology, there are said to be at least thirty-one distinct realms of existence, and existence within the continual round of birth and death is suffering and bondage.

As for the nature of these realms, they are generally treated as either external realms of existence where rebirth is possible due to the ripening of wholesome or unwholesome kamma [it is said those with the divine eye (dibba-cakkhu) can see these beings vanishing and reappearing] or experiences with no external location, i.e., they are mentally fabricated realities based upon wholesome or unwholesome kamma. My personal belief is that rebirth into any of these realms is a possiblity; although, I am also open to the possibility that these are merely methaphorical descriptions of various pleasant and unpleasant mental states.

Pragmatically, I view samara as the potential for the arising of human [mental] suffering, while I view nibbana as the cessation of that potential. Nevertheless, according to Nyanatiloka's Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, samara, literally "perpetual wandering," is "the unbroken chain of the five-fold khandha-combinations, which, constantly changing from moment to moment follow continuously one upon the other through inconceivable periods of time;" although, the only empirical means of proof that I am aware of is the experience of past life memories that can arise from developing deep states of meditative absorption (MN 39).

Honestly, I do not believe that rebirth can ever be scientifically disproven until science can at least find a way to rule out the possibility that consciousness can exist outside the body; because as Alan Wallace points out in an interview with Steve Paulson in Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellowships in Science & Religion, "This very notion that the mind must simply be an emergent property of the brain — consisting only of physical phenomena and nothing more — is not a testable hypothesis... Can you test the statement that there is nothing else going on apart from physical phenomena and their emergent properties? The answer is no."

Perhaps consciousness is simply a by-product of electrochemical processes in the brain, but perhaps there is another dimension to consciousness that science has yet to discover. Either way, another important point that is touched upon by Alan Wallace in the same interview is that, “If your sole access to the mind is by way of physical phenomena, then you have no way of testing whether all dimensions of the mind are necessarily contingent upon the brain.” Until science figures out a way to answer questions such as these, I am able to admit that I take certain concepts such as rebirth on faith—faith in the possibility that they are true.

Still, whatever your view of rebirth, nibbana is first and foremost the cessation of [mental] stress and suffering. When asked, "What now is nibbana?" by Jambukhadaka, Sariputta replied, "The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this, friend, is called nibbana" (SN 38.1). It is also stated by the Buddha that nibbana is "the highest bliss" (Dhp. 204). Furthermore, this freedom from suffering is not contingent upon death. The Buddha himself realized nibbana at the age of thirty-six, at which time he preceded to dedicate the remaining [forty-four] years of his life to teaching the path to the end of suffering.

As for the teachings on emptiness (sunnata), my personal opinion is that they are often taken out of context, and coincidentally, far removed from their intended purpose. The view of emptiness that things have no inherent existence, while philosophically complex and seemingly implicit in the teachings on dependent co-arising, actually developed over time. As Thanissaro Bhikkhu explains, "emptiness is a mode of perception, a way of looking at experience" (Emptiness). Moreover, "... the idea of emptiness as lack of inherent existence has very little to do with what the Buddha himself said about emptiness" (The Integrity of Emptiness).

Finally, when it comes to meditation, it is certainly true that mentally unstable people can become even more mentally unstable due to certain meditation practices. That fact alone does not negate to potential benefits of meditation, just as the fact that certain drugs prescribed to mentally unstable individuals can actually increase the likelihood of suicide does not negate the potential benefits of such drugs. I am sure that there are studies which warn against such dangers, but I am equally as sure that there are others which state the benefits, e.g., the study done by Dr. Paul Ekman at the University of California San Francisco Medical Centre.

Jason
 
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Rebirth was once explained to me by a Buddhist, not as a belief in literal reincarnation, but as a concept of renewal. Your body is constantly replenishing itself, replacing the old cells that die with new ones (at various rates depending on the type). The atoms that make you up are likewise being replaced by metabolic turnover. You are constantly learning new things every day of your life, such as right now, hopefully. When you're done reading over this forum for the day, taking in what people have to offer, you will have changed slightly and become a new person in addition to what you were before.

Rebirth doesn't mean that when you die you come back to life. It applies to that which is constantly occurring even right now. As the saying goes, change is the only universal constant.
 
Hiya Onemind!

I fing your definition of the damma to be interesting because you haven't stated the damma, you have talked about rebirth, which is fine thing to be sceptical of. Yet the damma remains as it is, the four truths and the eightfold path.

And in reading the first few chapter this seems to be a repeated pattern, it might seems a sort of straw argument.

Some suggestion:
1. Keep on critiquing.
2. Read more on what you critique, if you want to critique the dharma or nirvana try to address them as they are defined.
3. Citations are helpful.
4. Organization will help the flow of your essay. Try to use an outline, flowchart or note cards, address each point seperately and avoid a shotgun approach.
5. If you want to critique reincarnation, that is great, but don't call it the dharma or nirvana.
6. You might want to actualy ask people on the JREF what they are sceptical of in buddhism, most people are very sceptical and love to talk about thier ideas. Avoid name calling and listen to the comment as they are written. i for example am sceptical of 95% of what passes as buddhism.
 
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