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The Buddha Was Wrong - Reloaded

Perhaps you can read the pali canon with sutra after sutra on how life is suffering, rebirth is reality and nirvana is the way out. Much less of a retarded rant than my little booklet.
 
onemind said:
No, it is an anticipation for the predicatable quoting from that chapter :)

I dont feel the need to debunk pureland, amitabha or bodhisattvas any more than i need to disprove unicorns and am happy to leave mahayanans to it because they are beyond reason hence closing the chapter advising them to keep reciting..
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You seem to have conflated a small sect of Mahayana Buddhism (Pure Land School) with the entire of branch of Buddhism known as Mahayana.
 
Not at all. We can extend to zen or any other mainstream mahayana school and examine their tenets.

If you actually read the first chapter that it is not my aim to explore every single sect of buddhism and have created a classification system with 3 broad all encompassing groups to avoid the scotsman fallacy.

And pureland is hardly a small sect of mahayana buddhism, it is one of the largest schools within mahayana.
 
onemind said:
Not at all. We can extend to zen or any other mainstream mahayana school and examine their tenets.

If you actually read the first chapter that it is not my aim to explore every single sect of buddhism and have created a classification system with 3 broad all encompassing groups to avoid the scotsman fallacy.

And pureland is hardly a small sect of mahayana buddhism, it is one of the largest schools within mahayana.
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Here's Zen's tenet's: Sit Down And Shut Up..... that's it.

Apologies for calling Pure Land 'small', it's big.
 
Sit Down And Shut Up..... that's it.
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No, that is a cheesey cliche that white people like to use to excuse their ignorance of zen tenets.

Edited by prewitt81: 
Comment removed.


Be civil and polite.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: prewitt81
 
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After years of scientific study
on meditation, it has shown to be extremely unreliable and can
even worsen the effects of depression, anxiety and other mental
disorders in some people with extreme cases ending in suicide.
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Evidence? That is not what I have been told. Heck, the Wellness Center here offers mindfulness meditation.

Too often insane acts by so called masters who are detached
from day to day life are seen to be all knowing and wise. An
attempt to make the attached students let go of their worldly
concerns. Such detachment, seen as wise in Buddhism, is little
more than fundamentalist nihilism.

...

Detachment, non self and other anti life insights born of
meditation are little more than madness and does not always
lead to opening ones heart and generating great empathy and
compassion for all sentient beings.
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This is really representative of a lot of what you have to say, in that it is ignorant ranting.

What Zen teacher tells you to be attached from everyday life? Living your life in the moment (See Dogen's Time Being) is a key aspect of Zen.

Detachment is from sensual pleasure, and non self makes you appreciate the fact that you are no more important than, or seperate from, anyone else, which makes you act more compassionately.

So what to say about the Lotus Sutra, reciting Amitbha Buddha
to be born into pure land, and the various other religious
practices found in Mahayana? I mean really people, must I say
anything? If this stuff doesn’t scream out religious cult meme
bull **** I don’t know what does. My only advice to Mahayana
Buddhists would be, don’t smoke crack.
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Yes, we all know that religious texts must be literal and make use of no metaphors.

Getting back to the goal of Buddhism outlined in the Nirvana
chapter, Buddhism came about as a solution to the problem of
continuous rebirth. This begs the question, what the hell are
secular Buddhists on about? They outright deny the reality of
rebirth as mere superstition and yet still call themselves
Buddhists and follow the eightfold path. I hate to break it to you
secular Buddhists but you guys are retarded. It’s like denying
the existence of god as mere mythology but calling yourself a
roman catholic for the free sip of wine and piece of bread each
week in church. It’s a huge investment for trivial returns.
But wait, by practicing right speech, right livelihood and
refraining from rape, murder and theft they get the huge returns
of a peaceful way of life and staying out of jail. Well guess what,
99% of the people on this planet are smart enough to see the
benefits of abiding by common sense human conduct, there is
nothing Buddhist about it. Secular Buddhism is like Atheist
Christianity. A compete oxymoron adopted by middle class
yuppies who like the label as a fashion accessory to go with
their new Ipod.
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And you are using only one view of rebirth and nirvana. Those crackpot masochistic Zen buddhists can have an entirely secular view.

I discussed my doubts many times with my various Buddhist
teachers and friends throughout the last few years of labeling
myself a Buddhist and was met with mixed reactions. Some
were keen to point out the Kalama Sutta and told me my
questioning methods were wise and what the Buddha
recommended. However, I met strong resistance from the
dogmatic Buddhists, especially of the East. Many of those types
reminded me that doubt in the Buddha’s teachings was one of
the 5 hindrances to meditation. So here we have the Buddha telling us to have doubts in his teaching until verified for
ourselves but having doubt would impede finding out for
ourselves. Just one of many contradictions of simple minded
Buddhist philosophy.
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Actually, the bad kind of doubt is "corrosive doubt", which is basically just unhelpful doubt that won't get you anywhere in the Buddhist path, like doubting that enlightenment is possible.

I really didn't see the point of your book. If you asked me, I would say that what makes a person a Buddhist is belief in the four seals, and you should have talked about emptiness, non-self, etc. as opposed to just ranting about people or groups of people.

Your paper wasn't so much that the Buddha was wrong, but that Buddhists are wrong.
 
It would be better if there were more background to what you’re actually criticising. Now it just seems like ranting about something obvious, although that obvious thing is left unexamined. Basically it leaves a Buddhist with perhaps the following sense: “I’m sorry you feel that way”; and a non-Buddhist like me with… “Now I know how you feel”.

Here’s one example from the meditation chapter: "Detachment, non self and other anti life insights born of meditation are little more than madness and does not always lead to opening ones heart and generating great empathy and compassion for all sentient beings."

But you don’t really go into details why you feel that way; the reader is left clueless, guessing why you make those conclusions. Perhaps it requires much more familiarity with Buddhism than I have, if one is to infer what you’re alluding to.
 
Now we are talking :)

All fair comments and i am inclined to agree with you. I admit i am no writer and realise that it will take a lot more than 50 pages to get into the gory details of how i came to various conclusions. The second edition is in the works containg references to all scientific studies, buddhist texts and thorough explanations for various conclusions which i only covered superficialy in this short text.

I was hoping for a genuine critique like the 2 above so I see how it appears from other peoples side and will refine it as i go. Granted calling people retards is not the most constructive way to build a useful dialetic :P

I was unsure as to who my target audience should be. Current buddhists who already know what things like the kalama sutta is or the difference between insight and concentration meditation ect or for non buddhists requiring an explaination of concepts before tackling them. I decided to go for current buddhists because i figured non buddhists wouldnt be interested in reading about buddhism anymore than i am interested in reading about islam. Although, there could be a market for it but it could be seen a biased to teach people buddhism then kill it. I would probably be accused of making a strawman and be insulted for my lack of true understanding of dhmarma ect ect but this is unavoidable dealing with buddhists who think of themselves as jedi knights who have it all figured out :P

And yes, i just read it again from start to finish and it does sound like a rant. I change topics randomly from paragraph to paragraph without smooth transition and thorough explaination. Perhaps consider the first edition as more of a brain dump that will be ironed out for hard copy.

Thanks for comments and I will tackle them in more detail in the morning. Must sleep :P

Cheers
 
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onemind said:
No one has problems calling muslims and christians retarded
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I do, but please continue.
but every apologetic under the sun has a big cry about the validility of devas, hungry ghosts,
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Stuff to be sceptical of for sure.
rebirth, nirvana, karma,
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depends on the flavor of the buddhist
hell realms,
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I would only say hell exists as a condition on earth.
ect ect. Who care about the spelling of ect?
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I don't know, were you a spelling wonk in the past?
It is like dealing with pedantic librarians on this forum. Every other forum on the net where this is being discussed has a reasonable level of debate but you guys just want to bitch and moan. Ryokan, you are a retard. It is not your fault. But jesus.
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Funny how you don't want to discuss or debate, you just want people to agree with you and then call them retards when they don't.
 
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onemind said:
No, it is an anticipation for the predicatable quoting from that chapter :)

I dont feel the need to debunk pureland, amitabha or bodhisattvas any more than i need to disprove unicorns and am happy to leave mahayanans to it because they are beyond reason hence closing the chapter advising them to keep reciting..
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There are some pearls in the the muck of the Mahayana, supposedly the buddha berated his disciples for preforming miracles.

But faith based enlightenment, oook.
 
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onemind said:
Perhaps you can read the pali canon with sutra after sutra on how life is suffering, rebirth is reality and nirvana is the way out. Much less of a retarded rant than my little booklet.
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I would disagree but I haven't read more than a little bit. There sure is a lot of suffering for some people.
I take rebirth to mean the recycling of poor choices. But there sure are some who disagree, Thich Naht Hahn, who i really like to read is very vague about rebirth.
 
onemind said:
All fair comments and i am inclined to agree with you. I admit i am no writer and realise that it will take a lot more than 50 pages to get into the gory details of how i came to various conclusions. The second edition is in the works containg references to all scientific studies, buddhist texts and thorough explanations for various conclusions which i only covered superficialy in this short text.
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That bold part is the first thing you've said that I can agree with wholeheartedly. A real writer would not have included four spelling errors in just that one paragraph, or made so many blatant capitalization and grammatical errors. I especially feel sorry for your publisher, if his or her eyeballs haven't ruptured yet. The rest of what I wanted to say was already covered quite nicely by Dr A.

Also no, anyone who came on here and simply said, "All Christians and Muslims are retards!" would not gain instant respect and adulation for their incredibly insightful and well reasoned argument.
 
Microsoft words spell checker takes care of most of it and most publishers have editors to get the rest. Online spelling and grammar is a lot different than getting published.

Itz teh internetz, who givez a
Edited by tim: 
Please don't do that.


As for dancing davids comment, as much as i would like to get into the 10 page debate where you go on about sectarian differences and scotsman fallacies, my book specifically states that it does not look at any particular sect in detail. THere are 3 groups that have been dealt with, the mahayana chapter deals with the religious or superstitious group.
 
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onemind said:
THere are 3 groups that have been dealt with, the mahayana chapter deals with the religious or superstitious group.
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And so unanswerably!

So what to say about the Lotus Sutra, reciting Amitbha Buddha to be born into pure land, and the various other religious practices found in Mahayana? I mean really people, must I say anything? If this stuff doesn’t scream out religious cult meme bull **** I don’t know what does. My only advice to Mahayana Buddhists would be, don’t smoke crack.
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I particularly love the way you debunk those "various other religious practices" without even saying what they are.
 
I give good reason for that.

THey are beyond reason and no amount of debate will change their mind. They are on par with christians muslims and jews which i state at the start of the book i wont waste a minute of my time arguing their madness.

It wouldnt be hard to tackle the philosophical basis of mahayana. But i will waste no time on the religous group.
 
I think you need to reread the membership agreement, onemind.

Onemind was suspended twice for breaking it and being rude, and the last time he was put on probabtion for 6 months. That was a little over 6 months ago.
 
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