Cont: The Biden Presidency (3)

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Skeptic Ginger said:
:rolleyes:
You know the answer to this. Do you thinks the rest of us don't?


This is from the insurrection thread where it was off topic.

I don't understand why after these things have come up for the gazillionth time, people keep repeating this crap but never address the rebuttal points.

Regarding reducing emissions, you answered your own objection,


Re Biden going to Saudi Arabia, that is not to get more oil from OPEC for the US. We have enough oil. Gas and oil prices are a global matter. In case you need a reminder, the US has not nationalized oil companies. Oil companies respond to world prices.
The pipeline has zero to do with gas prices.

Oil companies have multiple leases they are not yet drilling.

The US exports more oil (as refined products) than it imports.

We get very little oil from OPEC. And we do get a lot of oil from Canada

A Ban on U.S. Crude Oil Exports Would Not Lower Gasoline Prices at the Pump
The problem is the global supply is decreased with blocking imports from Russia. Biden went to Saudi Arabia to convince them (OPEC actually) to increase production. But the US doesn't need Saudi oil. Only 5% of our imports come from Saudi Arabia.

US Oil imports and exports

So how about addressing the real cause of the increase in gas prices: world gas and oil prices. Because as a capitalist country (I'm not complaining) oil companies sell their products like gas and diesel to countries that pay more than the US market does. And currently exports have increased.

Europe trying to stop importing Russian oil is the current issue and in case you need another reminder Russia invading Ukraine happened after the 2020 election. Are you suggesting Biden should have anticipated a need to boycott Russian oil? :rolleyes:

If right-wingers weren't drenched in Biden bashing propaganda maybe they could honestly address the problem. Are you against sanctions on Russia? Should Biden be addressing the EU countries and asking them not to boycott Russian gas and oil?

At least be honest. It's a global problem, not simply a US problem. And Russian sanctions are a major reason for oil prices increasing.
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Holy Mary! Biden ran on a platform vowing to destroy the oil industry and yet he has no culpability for high gasoline prices? You must be used to surrounding yourself with idiots if you can honestly expect ANYONE to buy what you're selling!

I'll let you in on a little secret, everyone knows.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Holy Mary! Biden ran on a platform vowing to destroy the oil industry and yet he has no culpability for high gasoline prices? You must be used to surrounding yourself with idiots if you can honestly expect ANYONE to buy what you're selling!

I'll let you in on a little secret, everyone knows.
Click to expand...

Everyone knows what? I read a comment on Facebook the other day that seriously said "**** the experts--go ask the people pumping $5.00/gal into their tanks what the issue is" as if the "common sense" of people flooded with constant anti-Democrat propaganda since the last pres election is supposed to be reliable information.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Holy Mary! Biden ran on a platform vowing to destroy the oil industry and yet he has no culpability for high gasoline prices? You must be used to surrounding yourself with idiots if you can honestly expect ANYONE to buy what you're selling!

I'll let you in on a little secret, everyone knows.
Click to expand...

You're a socialist/communist? I never would have guessed.
 
theprestige said:
What about executive orders?

He managed to figure out a way to do something about nicotine in cigarettes, without having to wait for Congress to put a bill in front of him.

Otherwise, it seems like the problem isn't that he made a promise he didn't even bother trying to keep; rather the problem is that he made a promise he and everyone else knew he couldn't keep and had no business making.
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Cigarettes are managed by the FDA. What agency manages abortions?
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Holy Mary! Biden ran on a platform vowing to destroy the oil industry and yet he has no culpability for high gasoline prices? You must be used to surrounding yourself with idiots if you can honestly expect ANYONE to buy what you're selling!

I'll let you in on a little secret, everyone knows.
Click to expand...

Citation, please.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Holy Mary! Biden ran on a platform vowing to destroy the oil industry and yet he has no culpability for high gasoline prices? You must be used to surrounding yourself with idiots if you can honestly expect ANYONE to buy what you're selling!

I'll let you in on a little secret, everyone knows.
Click to expand...

Care to point out the specific things that Biden's done that you think are meaningfully affecting gas prices at present? I've yet to hear any actually reasonable points for Biden actually being bad on that front. I'll point at just a couple though, for reference.

Keystone? Heh, for all the right wing yammering about that, that pipeline would have done nothing for gas prices even if it were already finished and working. The US doesn't use the fuel that it would have been used for.

Cancelling a couple oil and gas lease sales? The oil and gas industries already have immense amounts of unused land leased to work with and it would take time to get things running even if they actually did actively develop it immediately. Maybe in the long run, you could make an argument for the Biden Administration driving up gas prices, but not really for the current prices. Even then, of course, there's more to be said on that issue if one wants to get into more detail, like a 2020 (Trump Era) court decision that would have blocked some of that leasing anyways.

Russian invasion of Ukraine related things? You could blame Biden for not pointedly rolling over like Trump almost certainly would have, I suppose, or for not dramatically escalating the dangers of far more serious catastrophes by not approving direct assaults on Russian forces. You can blame Biden at least in part for sanctions. All that's sorta pointless, though, so long as Biden's actions and aims are quite justified, which they do seem to be.

On the other hand, of course, Biden's done what he actually can do to reduce demand for gas, by the look of it, which is exactly the opposite of what Republicans seem to be actively working to do, in general, with seemingly all of Biden and the Democrat's efforts to reduce consumption met with staunch Republican opposition.

Biden's also released a notable amount of oil from the strategic reserve and rallied other countries to do similar.

Additionally, it's worth remembering some background factors like... that the oil and gas companies have largely already gotten the easiest to access oil and gas out and average cost of extraction just keeps gradually going up. Also, that oil and gas companies aren't all that eager to actually ramp up production, especially after that stretch of negative oil prices during pandemic.

All in all, the Biden blame looks very much like partisan farce, from here. Lots of sound and fury for remarkably little substance. For Trump, there was actually more of a case - he personally drove up oil prices repeatedly and unnecessarily with his words and actions and actually outright bragged about raising oil prices, among other things, but clearly, bashing Biden is the way to go, without regard for actual merit.
 
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Aridas said:
Care to point out the specific things that Biden's done that you think are meaningfully affecting gas prices at present? I've yet to hear any actually reasonable points for Biden actually being bad on that front. I'll point at just a couple though, for reference.

Keystone? Heh, for all the right wing yammering about that, that pipeline would have done nothing for gas prices even if it were already finished and working. The US doesn't use the fuel that it would have been used for.

Cancelling a couple oil and gas lease sales? The oil and gas industries already have immense amounts of unused land leased to work with and it would take time to get things running even if they actually did actively develop it immediately. Maybe in the long run, you could make an argument for the Biden Administration driving up gas prices, but not really for the current prices. Even then, of course, there's more to be said on that issue if one wants to get into more detail, like a 2020 (Trump Era) court decision that would have blocked some of that leasing anyways.

Russian invasion of Ukraine related things? You could blame Biden for not pointedly rolling over like Trump almost certainly would have, I suppose, or for not dramatically escalating the dangers of far more serious catastrophes by not approving direct assaults on Russian forces. You can blame Biden at least in part for sanctions. All that's sorta pointless, though, so long as Biden's actions and aims are quite justified, which they do seem to be.

On the other hand, of course, Biden's done what he actually can do to reduce demand for gas, by the look of it, which is exactly the opposite of what Republicans seem to be actively working to do, in general, with seemingly all of Biden and the Democrat's efforts to reduce consumption met with staunch Republican opposition.

Biden's also released a notable amount of oil from the strategic reserve and rallied other countries to do similar.

Additionally, it's worth remembering some background factors like... that the oil and gas companies have largely already gotten the easiest to access oil and gas out and average cost of extraction just keeps gradually going up. Also, that oil and gas companies aren't all that eager to actually ramp up production, especially after that stretch of negative oil prices during pandemic.

All in all, the Biden blame looks very much like partisan farce, from here. Lots of sound and fury for remarkably little substance. For Trump, there was actually more of a case - he personally drove up oil prices repeatedly and unnecessarily with his words and actions and actually outright bragged about raising oil prices, among other things, but clearly, bashing Biden is the way to go, without regard for actual merit.
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That's a canned response. While it's perfectly true that "A President does not control gas prices." (Which is the Left's "spin" to defend record high gasoline prices.) That excuse is for the low information small minded disciples of Leftist energy policies that target fossil fuels. After all "The President" didn't physically raise the price himself at your local gas station, he doesn't "own" it or "work" there. Hence the "root" of the spin. So that brings us into the more relevant fact that it is also perfectly true that a President's policies on energy absolutely affect the price of gasoline and other energy sources in many ways in the real World. Some examples of policies that can, and have affected the current price of gasoline is that on day 1 of the Biden Admin Leasing on Government help lands was halted, all prior Executive Orders put in place by former President Trump to increase US energy production were revoked. It's all contained within Biden's Executive Orders that are easy to obtain by searching them out online for those who wish to educate themselves. For example on Wednesday January 27, 2021 President Joe Biden signed a series of executive orders that prioritize climate change across all levels of government to "put the U.S. on track to curb planet-warming carbon emissions."

Biden’s orders directed the secretary of the Interior Department to halt new oil and natural gas leases on public lands and waters, and begin a thorough review of existing permits for fossil fuel development.

In addition to the pause on leasing, Biden also directed the federal government to conserve 30% of federal lands and water by 2030 and find ways to double offshore wind production by that time.

The series of actions kicked off the president’s agenda to reduce the country’s emissions and establish stricter targets under the Paris climate accord, the landmark agreement by nearly 200 nations aimed to mitigate climate change and ABSOLUTELY AFFECTED THE PRICE OF ENERGY. Of course there are many other examples should you wish to review them yourself. Presidential policies on Energy ABSOLUTELY AFFECT THE PRICE OF OIL. Even low information voters can quickly review and compare gasoline prices during the Obama Admin, Trump Admin and Biden Admin to see the correlation of Democrats in Office tied to higher prices at the pump due to Energy Policies that are shall we say "unfriendly" to oil and coal.

Jan 20, 2021 gasoline averaged $2.37 per gallon in the US.
Feb 23, 2022 gasoline averaged $3.53 per gallon in the US. A $1.16 increase before Russia invaded Ukraine.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Regardless of who wrote it, which part of the article would you argue to be untrue?
Click to expand...

*sigh*

A nice start can be found with... what I had just written. Keystone? Yup, they went there, just as one example of what I had already poked at.

More generally, it's no surprise that an article like that came from an organization with numerous ties to Koch Industries. One line summation of the article? "Creepy Biden's declared war on the energy industry!" Err, not really. It could be fair to say that Biden wants to accelerate the transition to more sustainable energy sources and reduce the US' dependence on fossil fuels in general, given the far more serious consequences of not actively working to do so. What they've got there? Pretty much pure oil industry propaganda.
 
Aridas said:
*sigh*

A nice start can be found with... what I had just written. Keystone? Yup, they went there, just as one example of what I had already poked at.

More generally, it's no surprise that an article like that came from an organization with numerous ties to Koch Industries. One line summation of the article? "Creepy Biden's declared war on the energy industry!" Err, not really. It could be fair to say that Biden wants to accelerate the transition to more sustainable energy sources and reduce the US' dependence on fossil fuels in general, given the far more serious consequences of not actively working to do so. What they've got there? Pretty much pure oil industry propaganda.
Click to expand...

Cancelling the Keystone Pipeline project directly increased the cost of energy. How so? First of all the Keystone Pipeline was going to be used to import tar sands from Canada to extract the oil at US refineries. Without that pipeline in place those tar sands have to be moved by truck and are not readily available for oil extraction. The end result is higher transportation costs added in to the refining which increases the price of energy.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Jan 20, 2021 gasoline averaged $2.37 per gallon in the US.
Feb 23, 2022 gasoline averaged $3.53 per gallon in the US. A $1.16 increase before Russia invaded Ukraine.
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Quote shortened, but my response won't be solely limited to the quoted.

First, for the overall thrust of your post, of course the Biden Administration bears responsibility for its actions AND its actions are not completely disconnected from reality. That you seem to think that I was arguing against that is odd. Nor did I claim that the President does not control gas prices, to be clear, even though it certainly is true that he doesn't. Further, I outright acknowledged that a President can affect gas prices, though, which makes much of your outrage in that response... misguided at best, which makes me much less inclined to take your arguments seriously, in general. Going further, as I had also poked at, you look like you are pointedly ignoring everything but the parts of the bigger picture that you think confirm your preferred narrative.

Second, to directly address the quoted - OF COURSE IT ROSE SIGNIFICANTLY! DUH! Demand rose greatly (or recovered to more normal levels as the case may be) as the economy recovered from COVID, which was sped along greatly by the Biden Administration actually doing a good job on the vaccine front. Trying to portray that as just the result of "creepy Biden declaring war on the energy industry" and ignoring everything else is not going to be all that convincing unless one is just letting it pass unchecked through one's filters.
 
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ChrisBFRPKY said:
Cancelling the Keystone Pipeline project directly increased the cost of energy. How so? First of all the Keystone Pipeline was going to be used to import tar sands from Canada to extract the oil at US refineries. Without that pipeline in place those tar sands have to be moved by truck and are not readily available for oil extraction. The end result is higher transportation costs added in to the refining which increases the price of energy.
Click to expand...

Higher costs for a product that the US doesn't use is not going to shift gas prices in the US. More fuel usage getting the tar sands from point A to point B is more like a drop in a very large bucket for its effects.
 
Solitaire said:
When Obama left office the United States government spent about four trillion

dollars and borrowed about half a trillion dollars per year. Remarkably, stable

over the four years he served.



When Trump left office the United States government spent about seven trillion

dollars and borrowed four trillion per year. And, keep in mind the interest rates

on the debt rising will add a bit more than a trillion dollars in spending per year.



Naturally, when the government goes from 20% of the economy to 40% of the

economy, prices will rise, because everyone competes for the same resources.

I expect the debt will double along with everything else.



We could use the MMT idea of raising taxes 10% across the board, bringing in

two trillion, and cutting government spending by two trillion a year in an effort

to balance the budget.



But I suspect they'll let inflation ride at a 10% rate for a decade.
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Not all budgetary actions have the same impact, however.

Many of them result in even lower revenue than the cuts. Tax cuts being such an example. On the other hand, food stamps and unemployment generate greater returns than their direct costs.

Many of the things poor people need result in many transactions between various entities within short order, each taxed as the money passes along.

Food stamps redeemed at the grocery store, which then needs to restock, which a distribution center has to restock, which a food processor has to make, which has to purchase more input ingredients, which a farmer has to get water/seeds/livestock feed to supply, etc.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Cancelling the Keystone Pipeline project directly increased the cost of energy. How so? First of all the Keystone Pipeline was going to be used to import tar sands from Canada to extract the oil at US refineries. Without that pipeline in place those tar sands have to be moved by truck and are not readily available for oil extraction. The end result is higher transportation costs added in to the refining which increases the price of energy.
Click to expand...

The XL pipeline (the one that was caancelled, the Keystone pipeline is operating) was not going to be operational until 2023, and more realistically 2025. Can you explain how that is the issue causing current higher gas prices?
 
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Chris just hates the Free Market and thinks that Companies should control supply and the demand.
 
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Aridas said:
Higher costs for a product that the US doesn't use is not going to shift gas prices in the US. More fuel usage getting the tar sands from point A to point B is more like a drop in a very large bucket for its effects.
Click to expand...

The original plan called for the extraction of oil from tar sands to triple by 2030. Thus opening up a great source of energy production. It would have been a win with the pipeline. Now it's not economically feasible to move the tar sands because the transportation costs would negate any benefit of processing them.

The cancellation of the Keystone pipeline extension into Canada is just one example of Biden's war on fossil fuels. It guarantees there will be no oil production from Alberta tar sands. Typically when something becomes more rare, it increases in value. Which is exactly why Biden is on his knees to OPEC now trying to get the Arabs to ramp up production.
 
kookbreaker said:
The XL pipeline (the one that was caancelled, the Keystone pipeline is operating) was not going to be operational until 2023, and more realistically 2025. Can you explain how that is the issue causing current higher gas prices?
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The Keystone pipeline project is one example of Biden's failed energy policies. The combination of failures is causing the resulting prices at the pump. You certainly don't gain favor with the Big Oil by going to war with them. Yet every thing Biden has done has put money into Big Oil's pockets and taken money from the consumer's. Rather than easing restrictions to ramp up production the Biden Administration has made exploration and drilling more difficult. Biden cancelled EVERY Executive Order Trump had in place to increase energy production. He added new annual pipeline fees of $10,000/mile for offshore pipelines. Stopped leasing Federal lands completely on day 1 of his Administration.

There will undoubtedly be pains while the US is moving away from its addiction to oil. Everyone knew this whether they admit it or not. 81 million+ knew the price of gasoline would rise due to Biden's approach to fossil fuels and Progressive "Green" energy policies.

The only surprise is those acting surprised and outright denying Biden had anything to do with the current record high price of gasoline. Perhaps it was just bad luck, for another Democrat President once again. One thing I'm certain of is those grifters hired to peruse the internet to sway public opinion away from Biden and record high gasoline prices are working overtime.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Chris just hates the Free Market and thinks that Companies should control supply and the demand.
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Oh come now, you know I don't hate the free market. I've made a good living out of it. I don't care about the price of gasoline either. I'll still drive my gas guzzler if gas goes to $50/gallon.

What I don't like is the price of my steak has doubled. Dang it!
 
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