The Biblical Realities of Hell

[Ladewig]

What if you steal from your parents or kill them or anything, just because it's listed as an assault crime or murder doesn't diminish it as something less or more than dishonor.

Let's review what was said up to this point.

What an incredibly poor argument and even worse defense of said argument.

-All laws are based off the Ten Commandments

-Oh yeah? Prove it.

-Three laws are based off the Ten Commandments. The other Commandments are just good suggestions. I won't even mention the thousands of laws that have nothing at all to do with the Ten Commandments. See I proved it!

How smart you are but to God they are all civil.
What happens if you beat up your mother, is that not dishonor?
Do we have a law against it today?
Only God can judge the things we don’t in ways we can't.
We could get into the divorce issues that are in the law about adultery and who wins the judgments.
But I would rather not.

First, you keep referring to civil law when you mean to say criminal law. They are two different things in the U.S. justice system.

Second. The point at hand is whether or not our criminal laws are based on the Ten Commandments. You mentioned assault laws in the context of attacking a parent. The only possible conclusion is that you were asserting that assault laws are based on the commandment to honor your parents. That position, of course, is thoroughly ridiculous. Even if that commandment never existed, western democracies would still have laws against assault, and assault laws cover people other than one's parents.

When the absurdity of your position was pointed out, you repeated your position with the laws against theft and murder. The laws against theft and murder have absolutely nothing to do with honoring or dishonoring one's parents. Mentioning these laws in a discussion concerning how the commandment of honoring one's parents might be a source of law is untenable.

Lastly, the stupidity of the claim that the Ten Commandments form the basis of modern U.S. law is crystal clear when one looks at all the valuable laws that God ignored when claiming to be the very font of all morality

The U.S. has laws
against rape,
against assault,
against slavery,
against racial discrimination,¹against sexual discrimination, ¹against killing enemy combatants and taking their virgin children to be one's bride

___________________________________
Aside: I am at a loss to understand how the most basic and important moral framework provided by God, Himself, managed to miss these concepts. It is as if the writer of those commandments were merely a bronze age scribe imagining what a mythological being might say if he existed.​

Furthermore, the U.S. has laws
guaranteeing the right to worship idols
guaranteeing the right to not keep the sabbath holy
guaranteeing the right to put other gods before the God of the Bible
guaranteeing the right to take the Lord's name in vain

Thus, it is concluded that the Ten Commandments are not in any possible way, the source of U.S. law.

.......................
1) these actually are civil laws. All the previous ones are criminal laws

 

[edge]

Let's review what was said up to this point.






First, you keep referring to civil law when you mean to say criminal law. They are two different things in the U.S. justice system.

Second. The point at hand is whether or not our criminal laws are based on the Ten Commandments. You mentioned assault laws in the context of attacking a parent. The only possible conclusion is that you were asserting that assault laws are based on the commandment to honor your parents. That position, of course, is thoroughly ridiculous. Even if that commandment never existed, western democracies would still have laws against assault, and assault laws cover people other than one's parents.

When the absurdity of your position was pointed out, you repeated your position with the laws against theft and murder. The laws against theft and murder have absolutely nothing to do with honoring or dishonoring one's parents. Mentioning these laws in a discussion concerning how the commandment of honoring one's parents might be a source of law is untenable.

Lastly, the stupidity of the claim that the Ten Commandments form the basis of modern U.S. law is crystal clear when one looks at all the valuable laws that God ignored when claiming to be the very font of all morality

Just because you won't believe or accept the Christ doesn't mean you are not part of God or have a part of God in you.
Morality is part of God that we all have in us from birth unless you are lacking
a conscience, which I doubt even when a person is a criminal.

The morality that you have, even as a nonbeliever, comes from God.
The problem comes from not listening to it or realizing where and what it is.

So if you say that you are morally superior with out believing the bible, that might be true but where does your superiority come from?

And again Just like the Hebrews we have added to them or taken away.

The U.S. has laws
against rape,
against assault,
against slavery,
against racial discrimination,1
against sexual discrimination, 1
against killing enemy combatants and taking their virgin children to be one's bride

I already stated what I thought about their addendums to the originals.


This is, (below)... where we are failing God, but nothing has changed this is to bolster freewill and protect you from the radicals, and that's good but it doesen't make it right with God now does it?

You say:

Furthermore, the U.S. has laws
guaranteeing the right to worship idols
guaranteeing the right to not keep the Sabbath holy
guaranteeing the right to put other gods before the God of the Bible
guaranteeing the right to take the Lord's name in vain

Thus, it is concluded that the Ten Commandments are not in any possible way, the source of U.S. law.

I wonder what you are thinking right now?


All those last rights are a guarantee to freedom of choice and that’s all.
It all amounts to we have the same problems with Gods’ commandments as they had.
We added to them and we took some away.
Like I said, “the commandments are a base.”

Again you are so far off topic it’s actually kind of funny.


The whole point was that the bible and atheists are in agreement when it comes to what hell is, nothingness after death.

No answer for this though?

So if you say that you are morally superior with out believing the bible, that might be true but where does your superiority come from?

I believe it comes from the beginning.
Along the way we added and changed it we took away from it and added what was accepted in all the cultures that ever existed, or not accepted.

The mistake is to think that God had anything to do with addendums of the times.
Obviously they come from different cultures.
Nothing-new here.

Some revived suicide victims describe arriving in a kind of prison or dungeon and they felt that they would have to remain there for a very long time. They recognized that this was their punishment for violating the established law, which requires that each person must suffer his share of sorrows here on earth. Having willfully thrown off the burdens placed upon them, they usually find out that they must carry even more in the world to come. Only God decides when a person has matured for eternity.

Want a link because this is what is known about N.D.Es, science today.

These are the kind of stories that are told all based on reward and punishment.

O.B.Es. Describe what is universally told by people experiencing the spirit without judgments, or on it’s own, some are purposefully caused and some just happen on there own.


These are all life changing events.
Some that experience hell either say they were in total darkness or are shown what their judgment is going to be.

 

[Belz...]

People in here who are confused about hell

I'll say. Some people think it actually exists.

 

[Craig4]

Bolding by me:
By man but not by God.
There are exemptions even in the bible, but we are talking about where there are not as in one of the spouses are cheating.
In other words anything you do that upsets your parents.
Anything you do to upset God.

The point is also, that many will avoid prosecution of mans' laws but you won't be able to avoid it when God judges a person.
Judgement could be that you accept the fact that you are not perfect and know when you were wrong, so that all may be saved.

Prove that Moses heard anyone's voice from the burning bush.

 

[Pup]

Just because you won't believe or accept the Christ doesn't mean you are not part of God or have a part of God in you.
Morality is part of God that we all have in us from birth unless you are lacking
a conscience, which I doubt even when a person is a criminal.

The morality that you have, even as a nonbeliever, comes from God.
The problem comes from not listening to it or realizing where and what it is.

Just because you don't understand or accept information about the development of human behavior, doesn't mean you don't derive your sense of morality from the same place everyone else does. A sense of morality is part of the behavior that made us and similar animals successful at surviving in cooperative groups and it's bred into all of us at birth, unless a person has a mental disability, which is rare even among criminals.

The morality and also the tendency toward a belief in mythology comes from our evolutionary heritage, whether a person thinks it does or not.

The problem comes when a person refuses to accept that, and believes the mythology is true regardless of the evidence.

 

[Ladewig]

Just because you won't believe or accept the Christ doesn't mean you are not part of God or have a part of God in you.
Morality is part of God that we all have in us from birth unless you are lacking
a conscience, which I doubt even when a person is a criminal.

The morality that you have, even as a nonbeliever, comes from God.
The problem comes from not listening to it or realizing where and what it is.

There is no evidence that my morality comes from God. None. Your constantly asserting that my morality comes from God is not evidence.

So if you say that you are morally superior with out believing the bible, that might be true but where does your superiority come from?

My moral superiority comes from my insistence that killing innocent people is wrong. If one has the power to punish only the guilty and one chooses instead to punish the innocent and the guilty, then one is a moral abomination. God could have killed Pharaoh's son, instead God killed the firstborn of everyone in Egypt down to the firstborn of the prisoner in the dungeon.

My moral superiority comes from my insistence that slavery is always wrong.

My moral superiority comes from my insistence rape is a more harmful crime than covetousness and thus should be listed in any code of morals.

My moral superiority comes from my insistence that racial bigotry is always wrong.

All those last rights are a guarantee to freedom of choice and that’s all.
It all amounts to we have the same problems with Gods’ commandments as they had.
We added to them and we took some away.
Like I said, “the commandments are a base.”

Again you are so far off topic it’s actually kind of funny.

I am responding to your claim! If you want to call that off topic, you may; but I consider responding to ridiculous claims by the OPer is always appropriate in religion threads. You believe that the Ten Commandments are the base of U.S. law. They are not. I and other posters have shown logically why they are not. You continue to claim that they are because of your desire to believe that your God is important and that without your God, morality would collapse. The Ten Commandments are not the base of U.S. law in any possible sense.

 

[HghrSymmetry]

.... That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever seen in one of your posts. ....

The probability is that it won't remain in the top spot for long.

The morality and also the tendency toward a belief in mythology comes from our evolutionary heritage, whether a person thinks it does or not.

The problem comes when a person refuses to accept that, and believes the mythology is true regardless of the evidence.

Ironically , that very same evolutionary pre-disposition towards specific compartmentalized irrationality may blind the individual from realizing it in the first place.
It may be the foundation, with cultural molding/training greatly reinforcing the belief system.

 

[Elizabeth I]

Morality is part of God that we all have in us from birth unless you are lacking a conscience, which I doubt even when a person is a criminal.

I believe that if you will look at the research you will learn that a seat of conscience has been found in the brain, somewhere in the frontal lobes. If that area of the brain is severly injured or destroyed, the individual in question will lose his/her conscience.

And again Just like the Hebrews we have added to them or taken away.

I already stated what I thought about their addendums to the originals.

Along the way we added and changed it we took away from it and added what was accepted in all the cultures that ever existed, or not accepted.

The mistake is to think that God had anything to do with addendums of the times.
Obviously they come from different cultures.
Nothing-new here.

For the one-thousandth time, how do you tell the difference between the "God stuff" and the "added by people stuff" in the Bible?

Note to Edge: "the stuff I don't like was added by people, all the other stuff is from God," is not an objective or appropriate criterion.

 

[dafydd]

People in here who are confused about hell

No.It is impossible to be confused about something that doesn't exist.

 

[Paulhoff]

People in here who are confused about hell, I think this makes it clear and it is what I have been saying about it.

Once again edge, until you prove a hell, there is no being confused about hell.

Paul

 

[dafydd]

Edge,are you confused about Never-Never Land,The Land Of Oz and Middle Earth?

 

[Cactus Wren]

Don't worry. Witch hunting is one of the few human superstitions that did go out of fashion.

You think so?

 

[Oualawouzou]

Morality is part of God that we all have in us from birth unless you are lacking
a conscience, which I doubt even when a person is a criminal.

You know, that's an argument that annoys me quite a lot ever since I became a father. Could someone explain why, despite that God-given morality, children still need to be taught that stealing is wrong, that sharing is good, that hitting people is a big no-no, that pulling the cat's tail is mean, that lying is dubious at the best of time and that a Sky Daddy willed us all into existence? It's almost as if they were born not with what humans call "morality", but with an array of instinctive behaviors aimed at strengthening their place in their group hierarchy...

 

[Tricky]

You know, that's an argument that annoys me quite a lot ever since I became a father. Could someone explain why, despite that God-given morality, children still need to be taught that stealing is wrong, that sharing is good, that hitting people is a big no-no, that pulling the cat's tail is mean, that lying is dubious at the best of time and that a Sky Daddy willed us all into existence? It's almost as if they were born not with what humans call "morality", but with an array of instinctive behaviors aimed at strengthening their place in their group hierarchy...

Yeah, but they sure seem to be born with an innate sense of fairness, because they will let you know in no time flat (even at a very young age) that whatever you're doing is NOT FAIR! This sense of fairness will be engaged at just about any sort of point where people are treated differently, whether it is division of treats, differing bedtimes, or unequal punishment.

 

[AdMan]

Yeah, but they sure seem to be born with an innate sense of fairness, because they will let you know in no time flat (even at a very young age) that whatever you're doing is NOT FAIR! This sense of fairness will be engaged at just about any sort of point where people are treated differently, whether it is division of treats, differing bedtimes, or unequal punishment.

Sounds like the Golden Rule is pretty innate. How could that be, without God???

 

[Tricky]

Sounds like the Golden Rule is pretty innate. How could that be, without God???

It's certainly widespread, though hardly universal. It's not part of the Pirate Code. (Though the PC is really more "loose guidelines".)

 

[devnull]

Nup, not innate either - unless my 2 year old son wants his sisters to hit him on the head with a toy.

 

[AdMan]

Nup, not innate either - unless my 2 year old son wants his sisters to hit him on the head with a toy.

Hmm. Might be fun.

 

[AdMan]

Nup, not innate either - unless my 2 year old son wants his sisters to hit him on the head with a toy.

This is interesting--when does the "Golden Rule" feeling first manifest itself in a child? I'm thinking it's not much beyond 2 or 3.

 

[devnull]

This is interesting--when does the "Golden Rule" feeling first manifest itself in a child? I'm thinking it's not much beyond 2 or 3.

Im not sure it would without training.