• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The Best Movies You've Never Seen

Jane Espenson (writer/producer on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Gilmore Girls, Battlestar Galactica, et al) has a pretty good blog dedicated to offering advice on getting into writing for television. (www.janeespenson.com) It's focused on comedy writing, but has some good advice on finding agents, etc., that may be useful.
 
Jane Espenson (writer/producer on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Gilmore Girls, Battlestar Galactica, et al) has a pretty good blog dedicated to offering advice on getting into writing for television. (www.janeespenson.com) It's focused on comedy writing, but has some good advice on finding agents, etc., that may be useful.
Nice link, ZB. I'll bet Jane's a riot in real life, fun to be around.

I just did a comedy, and will be doing another as my 4th film, with the Western in between.

I'm not looking towards TV writing but things can lead there. One never knows. Shoot, I'll probly hafta get cable or a dish or something and start watching the TeeVee again first. :eek:

The toughest thing is that break. Virtually impossible to attain. Especially if you write, because good writing requires solitude, no distractions, none of that noisy schmoozy stuff. I think after the Western - which will take most of the summer - I'll start hitting the L.A. circuits.

The rule is: Absolutely NO ONE wants to read your stuff. Not nobody, not no how. That's what a writer is up against. And then if they do read (a miracle), they can't wait to tell you how putrid you really are.

So you laugh a lot, and you remain sane. And you keep writing.
 
I've just completed my second feature-length screenplay and am now flinging it, and the first script, into the moviemaking machine for considered perusal. Or just to see if anyone even notices them. Odds? No one will. And for all I know - maybe both scripts are appallingly putrid and deserve their projected indifference. But on to my point.

Years ago I knew a young screenwriter in my apartment complex and we became friends. He gave me two scripts he'd written and I raced through them both. That's because they were really good. Original, creative, interesting, good characters, the whole nine yards. Afterwards I asked him, rhetorically: "Why am I reading these scripts in my little apartment? Why have I not already seen these on the big screen?". Of course he did what everyone does. Hiked his shoulders, a shake of the head, a sardonic little grimace.

What unknown screenwriters do, such as myself, is write what are called "spec" scripts. For "speculation". No one asks us to write them, there is no outside investment, absolutely no guarantee that it will ever be sold. Because you're unknown, you're really stuck with doing original material. A lot of movies you see are adaptations of books, short stories, novellas, magazine articles and so forth. It's easier writing those movie scripts. Adapting is really just tweaking material that has already been tested and approved. But we new writers don't generally get to do that. You need permissions and approvals for adaptations - lawyers, negotiations, compensations and so forth. Those are the haunts of literary agencies and established writers.

So it is actually an upside that a "spec" screenwriter has to create something entirely new, front to back. Something fresh and unique, that the moviegoing public hasn't quite ever seen before. New stories, new twists, new angles on characterizations.

And yet Hollywood hardly wants that. What they want is Jackass 2, Spiderman 3, Charlie's Angels 4. As gigantic corporations have swallowed up the entertainment industry, they've brought their guaranteed bottom-line and feet of clay and play-it-safe concepts into the moviemaking mix. Remake it. Sequel it. Comic-book it. They've gotten more and more away from what moviemaking actually is: Simple storytelling. Nothing more than people using their imaginations to relate a unique story in an interesting and engaging manner.

Anyway it's time to get started on the next script. Just throwing ideas around in my head at this point, vague general thoughts. Like with the first two scripts. I'll enjoy it. And my work may very well be substandard. It will be original though. But I've seen great work from new writers out there. And I definitely believe that some of the best stories you haven't heard or seen - you never will. Because like no other time in its history, Hollywood is moving away faster from the concept of moviemaking as art. As great, original storytelling.
I'm a script reader, and I have been for a couple years. I also have written around 6 scripts and I'm working with a producer on a low-budget project, and I've been offered a spot as a featured screenwriting columnist online. (should've taken it but the site was non-user friendly and got on my nerves)

Couple things I want to say...

1) I strongly suggest you hold off on sending the scripts out. It takes about 5 years or 600 pages before you really start figuring out how to write, if you haven't already been a novelist or some other type of writer. If you take the time to really figure out what you're doing and you work REALLY hard, you will stand out from the sea of crap.

2) Another thing you have to recognize about Hollywood is that it's filled with unoriginal writers and unoriginal producers. They are not looking for a script that is good in and of itself. They don't know how to judge actual quality. They are looking for a script that is very similar to something that is commonly accepted as good. HUGE difference there, and it will explain a lot of weird behavior you'll read about by studios and prodco's.

Lastly, always remember that your endgoal is to write something that is funny, exhilarating, scary or somehow downright entertaining, AND IT BETTER MAKE SENSE. Devote your efforts to that. You can be highbrow with smart ideas, but if you're not entertaining on top of it, you'll just get a heap of pretentious junk that accomplishes nothing.

Anyway, I love screenwriting, so if you want to talk more I'm always here.
 
I'm a script reader, and I have been for a couple years. I also have written around 6 scripts and I'm working with a producer on a low-budget project, and I've been offered a spot as a featured screenwriting columnist online. (should've taken it but the site was non-user friendly and got on my nerves)

Couple things I want to say...

1) I strongly suggest you hold off on sending the scripts out. It takes about 5 years or 600 pages before you really start figuring out how to write, if you haven't already been a novelist or some other type of writer. If you take the time to really figure out what you're doing and you work REALLY hard, you will stand out from the sea of crap.

2) Another thing you have to recognize about Hollywood is that it's filled with unoriginal writers and unoriginal producers. They are not looking for a script that is good in and of itself. They don't know how to judge actual quality. They are looking for a script that is very similar to something that is commonly accepted as good. HUGE difference there, and it will explain a lot of weird behavior you'll read about by studios and prodco's.

Lastly, always remember that your endgoal is to write something that is funny, exhilarating, scary or somehow downright entertaining, AND IT BETTER MAKE SENSE. Devote your efforts to that. You can be highbrow with smart ideas, but if you're not entertaining on top of it, you'll just get a heap of pretentious junk that accomplishes nothing.

Anyway, I love screenwriting, so if you want to talk more I'm always here.
Good thoughts, EG.

I think we need to start a new Hollywood. The linchpin barely holding the joint together now is that they haven't yet released a Jackass 3. When that day comes - all the sane creative people out here in Tinsel Town will grind the place into grit underfoot. And build a new Hollywood from the ashes, start the whole damn thing all over again.

In anticipation, I'm working on a talkie about a chariot race in ancient Rome... can my people talk to your people about it next week? LetsHaveLunch?
 
Good thoughts, EG.

I think we need to start a new Hollywood. The linchpin barely holding the joint together now is that they haven't yet released a Jackass 3. When that day comes - all the sane creative people out here in Tinsel Town will grind the place into grit underfoot. And build a new Hollywood from the ashes, start the whole damn thing all over again.

In anticipation, I'm working on a talkie about a chariot race in ancient Rome... can my people talk to your people about it next week? LetsHaveLunch?
There are a lot worse things than Jackass 3. It's definitely "Yet Another Sequel," but Jackass was an original show, that is actually funny and entertaining, and they worked VERY hard to make them. That's more than you can say for most of what's out there.

There are plenty of things that are both UNoriginal AND UNentertaining, that are totally half-assed...and they are trying to literally TRICK the audience into thinking it'll be good, because it looks like something else they enjoyed. That bull**** is what we should be mocking.
 
There are a lot worse things than Jackass 3. It's definitely "Yet Another Sequel," but Jackass was an original show, that is actually funny and entertaining, and they worked VERY hard to make them. That's more than you can say for most of what's out there.

There are plenty of things that are both UNoriginal AND UNentertaining, that are totally half-assed...and they are trying to literally TRICK the audience into thinking it'll be good, because it looks like something else they enjoyed. That bull**** is what we should be mocking.
I guess. I'm a sucker though for good old storytelling and never did buy into the "reality" stuff. At all. Hate, HATER, HATEST. Keeps reinforcing my decision to watch absolutely no television. I keep being righter every day about that.

Anyway I've had it and already phoned in my reservation for Wednesday, next week. The Caterpillar company, one-day rentals. I'm getting me a Caterpillar with the nice steamroller attachment on the front.

So if you know anyone who wants to share the cab with me, let me know. I'll be starting at the border of Malibu, where the Pacific Coast Highway and Sunset Boulevard intersect, and will be working my way east, up Sunset...
 
I guess. I'm a sucker though for good old storytelling and never did buy into the "reality" stuff. At all. Hate, HATER, HATEST. Keeps reinforcing my decision to watch absolutely no television. I keep being righter every day about that.

Anyway I've had it and already phoned in my reservation for Wednesday, next week. The Caterpillar company, one-day rentals. I'm getting me a Caterpillar with the nice steamroller attachment on the front.

So if you know anyone who wants to share the cab with me, let me know. I'll be starting at the border of Malibu, where the Pacific Coast Highway and Sunset Boulevard intersect, and will be working my way east, up Sunset...
I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Whether a show is "reality TV" or not has no effect on whether it is entertaining, original, or made by hard-working people. A lot of reality TV shows are certainly crap, but they are not crap BECAUSE they're reality TV. It's sort of an invalid criticism.

Executives use invalid criticisms all the time when they try to judge scripts, and I always point it out, so I have to be fair and point it out when non-executives also.
 
I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Whether a show is "reality TV" or not has no effect on whether it is entertaining, original, or made by hard-working people. A lot of reality TV shows are certainly crap, but they are not crap BECAUSE they're reality TV. It's sort of an invalid criticism.

Executives use invalid criticisms all the time when they try to judge scripts, and I always point it out, so I have to be fair and point it out when non-executives also.
No, it's a valid criticism and opinion. Reality TV is crap. All of it. There are no exceptions. The entire genre needs to be pulled out, then trampled on, burned, shot, kicked and finally buried deep in an abandoned salt mine.

I don't include interview shows or game shows or documentaries and so forth. The standard stuff they've always had on TV. I mean the banal tripe that lies to the viewer that what they are seeing is "reality".

Know why it's being pushed so strenuously? Of course you do. It's CHEAP! Cheap to make, produce, write ("write" - yeah, there's a concept). It's easy - there is no hard work involved in reality TV. Maximum profit, minimum investment and overhead. Properly hyped, it is not difficult to convince an American couch potato audience that this is "really good". If they bought that Britney Spears is "really good", then of course they'd buy this reality TV line too.

It's really awful, is what it is. The very definition of putrid. Now that is a strong opinion, I'll grant you. But it is also a valid criticism.
 
Last edited:
No, it's a valid criticism and opinion. Reality TV is crap. All of it. There are no exceptions. The entire genre needs to be pulled out, then trampled on, burned, shot, kicked and finally buried deep in an abandoned salt mine.
Well, you know you're exaggerating and saying things that just aren't true. I'm only interested in an honest, logical discussion, because that's the best way for us to learn about these things.

I don't include interview shows or game shows or documentaries and so forth. The standard stuff they've always had on TV. I mean the banal tripe that lies to the viewer that what they are seeing is "reality".
You're just fooling with definitions so that they fit what you say. Equivocation, if-by-whiskey, etc.

I am not interested in this type of thing.

Know why it's being pushed so strenuously? Of course you do. It's CHEAP! Cheap to make, produce, write ("write" - yeah, there's a concept). It's easy - there is no hard work involved in reality TV.
Cheap does not equal lazy. Cheap does not equal low-quality. El Mariachi was incredibly cheap and it was a good movie that had a lot of work behind it. You're confusing terms and throwing out equivocations left and right. It's both wrong and exhausting for me to read and correct.

Maximum profit, minimum investment and overhead. Properly hyped, it is not difficult to convince an American couch potato audience that this is "really good".
Now you're pulling out the standard elitist "attack the audience" strategy. This will actually only do three things:

1) Pump up your own ego by implying to yourself that you're smarter than everyone else.
2) Make you ignore negative responses to your work by pretending that your work is so great that it's above everyone's head.
3) Free you from ever acknowledging that something you've written might not be working, and thus stopping you from going back to the drawing board and learning more about the craft.

None of those three things do you, me, or the audience any good. If you want to learn, you have to check your ego at the door.

If they bought that Britney Spears is "really good", then of course they'd buy this reality TV line too.

It's really awful, is what it is. The very definition of putrid. Now that is a strong opinion, I'll grant you. But it is also a valid criticism.
That is NOT a valid criticism. Do not claim so again because you are making this conversation a total mess.

A valid criticism of a show would be "it's boring," because that directly effects whether the show is good or not. You cannot have a perfect show if it is boring.

Your criticism is the same as saying "this show stars someone with blue eyes." Whether the star has blue eyes does NOT effect in any way whether it is a good show or not. It is not valid. The genre of a show does not have any direct effect on whether it is entertaining, original, or the product of hard work.

It's exactly that mentality that leads to bad producers rejecting great scripts. They point out things that might correlate to a few bad movies that came out recently, but which, in and of themselves, do not make the script bad.
 
Last edited:
...

2) Another thing you have to recognize about Hollywood is that it's filled with unoriginal writers and unoriginal producers. They are not looking for a script that is good in and of itself. They don't know how to judge actual quality. They are looking for a script that is very similar to something that is commonly accepted as good. HUGE difference there, and it will explain a lot of weird behavior you'll read about by studios and prodco's.
We can at least agree on something.

Michael Moore agrees with me as well, on this point:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=210

Note what he says about Hollywood.
 
We can at least agree on something.

Michael Moore agrees with me as well, on this point:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=210

Note what he says about Hollywood.
I'm not a big fan of Michael Moore, so I usually don't care much for what he says. The part where we disagree is in what constitutes hackwork and bad moviemaking. I know this might be hard to swallow, but Jackass and Jackass 2 are GOOD MOVIES. They are inventive, entertaining, original, and the products of VERY hard work. You want to attack things that lazy, misguided, unoriginal and unentertaining.
 
Last edited:
I'm not a big fan of Michael Moore, so I usually don't care much for what he says. The part where we disagree is in what constitutes hackwork and bad moviemaking. I know this might be hard to swallow, but Jackass and Jackass 2 are GOOD MOVIES. They are inventive, entertaining, original, and the products of VERY hard work. You want to attack things that lazy, misguided, unoriginal and unentertaining.
Lemme guess. You're young and you're male. Oh - and you're also Republican. I think that Republicans delight in viewing crude and painful acts more than Democrats. Maybe.

So then obviously you can't wait for Jackass 3 to come out.

Toilet humor as mainstream. Oh goody.
 
Lemme guess. You're young and you're male. Oh - and you're also Republican. I think that Republicans delight in viewing crude and painful acts more than Democrats. Maybe.

So then obviously you can't wait for Jackass 3 to come out.

Toilet humor as mainstream. Oh goody.
Now you're completely ignoring what I say in favor of trying to make it a personal issue or ad hominem.

Well, I tried.
 
I'd like to see a WW2 movie but from the german perspective. Opposite of saving Privite Ryan it would follow a German unit instead. I'd use whatthey did in hunt for red october: for the first minute the characters speak German but then the actors go into speaking English; that way the audience bonds with the characters better. Interesting movie because it would never be done by the likes of spielberg.

Not very original but different for sure.

Sounds like an interesting idea, perhaps like "All Quiet On The Western Front"

except in WW2, obviously
 
Last edited:
I'd tell you, but I still have hopes of writing the book. :)
 
ConspiRaider,

Many decades ago I attended the World Premier of a less-than-feature-length movie at the Ontario Science Centre here in Toronto. It was called "Crimes of the Future" and involved a doctor at a clinic at sometime in the near future (maybe the year 2000 or so) who provided cures for people who had been damaged by their use of cosmetics.

It was written, produced and directed by a kid with the name of David Cronenberg.

So, there is hope, even though there is no certainty.
 
I guess. I'm a sucker though for good old storytelling and never did buy into the "reality" stuff. At all. Hate, HATER, HATEST. Keeps reinforcing my decision to watch absolutely no television. I keep being righter every day about that.

Anyway I've had it and already phoned in my reservation for Wednesday, next week. The Caterpillar company, one-day rentals. I'm getting me a Caterpillar with the nice steamroller attachment on the front.

So if you know anyone who wants to share the cab with me, let me know. I'll be starting at the border of Malibu, where the Pacific Coast Highway and Sunset Boulevard intersect, and will be working my way east, up Sunset...
I completely understand your frustration. It's not Hollywood, it's not indie, it's not East Asian Cinema, It's EVERYWHERE.

Creativity is really hard to do, and I know you want something really salable on your hands, but it's not going to happen at first. Here's an interesting breakdown for you. Take the top 20 grossing films of all time (I know you're not aiming that high, but bear with me). Take away those: Not part of a franchise, those not based off of previous literature (or, indeed, Disney rides). You have:

Titanic
Finding Nemo.
ET

Your best bet is to write the next Blood Simple or Eraserhead or Down By Law. Something that might spark a cult interest. (sorry if i'm rambling, I've been sick and can't sleep).

Just don't get TOO creative. If I ever have to watch anything like The Cook, The Theif, His Wife and her Lover again, I'll shoot myself.

Oh screw. I just realized that all 3 examples of great indie screenwriting were written by the directors.

Have you ever thought about directing? :o

ETA: If you want a completely unrealistic, but all too true account of getting a movie made with a big part dedicated to scriptwriting, I would suggest picking up the extremely amazing, yet too good for TV show ACTION!, starring Jay Mohr on DVD. Really great stuff.
 
Last edited:
Oh, and someone mentioned the idea of Western Noir. THAT is something that would sure as hell pique my interest, but prolly as a TV script. Still a great concept, IMHO.
 
ConspiRaider,

Many decades ago I attended the World Premier of a less-than-feature-length movie at the Ontario Science Centre here in Toronto. It was called "Crimes of the Future" and involved a doctor at a clinic at sometime in the near future (maybe the year 2000 or so) who provided cures for people who had been damaged by their use of cosmetics.

It was written, produced and directed by a kid with the name of David Cronenberg.

So, there is hope, even though there is no certainty.
Very cool, GIT.

I remember enjoying Scanners. "I would personally like to scan everybody in this room."

And of course The Dead Zone, and others...
 

Back
Top Bottom