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Cont: The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

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bluesjnr said:
Just to avoid the same confusion I experienced. He was beaten to death during a training exercise by these 4 officers, one of whom was under investigation, by him, for gang rape.
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That's not correct. He was had pushed for an investigation of four officers for gang rape when a victim came forward and pushed it up the chain as there was refusal to do so. One of those officers was at the training where he was killed. The claim of the police is that one trainee dropped him on the ground while holding his neck, and that caused a stroke or something. This is not supported by independent autopsy information (although the police corner obviously doesn't agree). The ADE was never deployed either.
 
tyr_13 said:
That's not correct. He was had pushed for an investigation of four officers for gang rape when a victim came forward and pushed it up the chain as there was refusal to do so. One of those officers was at the training where he was killed. The claim of the police is that one trainee dropped him on the ground while holding his neck, and that caused a stroke or something. This is not supported by independent autopsy information (although the police corner obviously doesn't agree). The ADE was never deployed either.
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Do forgive me, it was this bit from your link that confused me.

dead cop was investigating a gang rape by four cops at least one of whom was there when he was beaten to death.
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Aridas said:
To poke at something a bit less violent than most of what's posted here... Apparently, police arrested a guy for having put up an obvious parody of them Facebook page for a day. Skipping over a bunch of things, The Onion has filed a very serious, yet also a parody, amicus brief in defense of freedom of speech.
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The odd thing is that he spent time in jail. One can see a case where passing off your web site as a genuine police web site might be an offence. One can understand that if the police believed he had committed an offence he would be arrested and interviewed and if the prosecutor thought there was a criminal act then a trial would be reasonable (he was found not guilty). What seems odd is he spent four days in jail, this would in most of the world be a situation where he would never have been in jail.

I suspect this represents an issue with the US practice of plea deals, the police / prosecution probably felt by strong arming him, jailing him and threatening him with a trial he would do a deal. The use of plea deals has become a threat to justice.

https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-...justice-system-its-time-to-suck-the-venom-out

https://www.fairtrials.org/campaigns/plea-bargaining/
 
Planigale said:
The odd thing is that he spent time in jail. One can see a case where passing off your web site as a genuine police web site might be an offence. One can understand that if the police believed he had committed an offence he would be arrested and interviewed and if the prosecutor thought there was a criminal act then a trial would be reasonable (he was found not guilty). What seems odd is he spent four days in jail, this would in most of the world be a situation where he would never have been in jail.

I suspect this represents an issue with the US practice of plea deals, the police / prosecution probably felt by strong arming him, jailing him and threatening him with a trial he would do a deal. The use of plea deals has become a threat to justice.

https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-...justice-system-its-time-to-suck-the-venom-out

https://www.fairtrials.org/campaigns/plea-bargaining/
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I think the issue with plea bargains affects police behaviour. With only 3 - 5% of crimes actually dealt with through a judicial system the rest dealt with by extra judicial plea deals the police rarely have to actually make a case that will stand up in court. They and the prosecutors can exagerate the strength of the case, ramp up bail requirements and hold people in jail, threaten unfeasibly severe penalties to strong arm a deal.

I saw the re-election website of a DA, claiming a 100% conviction rate. My first thought was that was a good reason to not vote for this person. anything 100% is suspect either she was only prosecuting sure fire things, and letting some guilty people get away because she could not be sure of a conviction or the trial system was rigged. Now I realise that very few cases would ever reach trial.
 
pgwenthold said:
Can we put this into the "media parroting copaganda" category?

The 15 year old Amber Alert victim shot by the police in San Bernadino ("San Berdue" according to Fletch).

Sheriff says she was "involved in the gun battle" and media shares his baseless claim that she shot at the police.

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1575875978961686528

Oh by the way, the only gun recovered from the scene was a rifle that was in the pickup with the father. Moreover, the media even reported the fact that the only gun recovered from the scene was a rifle that was in the pickup with the father. And they still swallowed the story that she was "involved in the gun battle" and parroted the claim that she shot at the police.

But now, in a "stunning twist" to the story, it's likely all ********.

Really? They are just coming around to that?

Everyone who heard the story from the start knew that. Except, apparently, for ABC7.
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Jon Oliver's latest episode was devoted to crime reporting and the media (mainly local news) taking absolutely everything the local police department's press officer releases at face value.

 
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After community leaders in a neighborhood in Kansas City in mid-September began trying to call media attention to what they said was a series of recent disappearances and killings of young Black women that seemed to be centered around a specific area, the Kansas City PD made their own press announcement strenuously denying the reports, calling them "completely unfounded rumors" - a statement that was simply accepted and promoted by most local and national media.

Last week, police in Kansas City were called to a home by the residents after a young Black woman wearing latex lingerie and a padlocked metal collar showed up at their door begging for help. She had, she said, been kidnapped in early September in the particular area community leaders had tried to raise awareness about and had been held, tortured, and raped over the last month in the basement of a house she had just escaped from, and said she'd had "friends" there who had been killed by the kidnapper. She had injuries consistent with her claims of torture and was able to lead police the house, which was verified to have some kind of torture-chamber in its basement.

A man, Timothy Haslett, Jr, was arrested and so far has been charged with the kidnapping and torture of the woman who was found. There's no information from police yet as far as murder victims having been found or investigated; but it's early in the process yet, and given how every other statement the victim made has been corroborated by direct physical evidence it is at least a good possibility that she was telling the truth about the kidnapper having other victims who were killed.

Police have defended their initial statements denying the disappearances the local leaders had been expressing concerns about were happening, essentially reiterating that if they don't have a formal police report of a disappearance on file then it effectively hasn't happened and there's nothing wrong with calling public concerns unfounded under those circumstances.
 
Checkmite said:
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Police have defended their initial statements denying the disappearances the local leaders had been expressing concerns about were happening, essentially reiterating that if they don't have a formal police report of a disappearance on file then it effectively hasn't happened and there's nothing wrong with calling public concerns unfounded under those circumstances.
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I would bet that the cops are skilled at discouraging formal police reports: "You have to wait 48 hours," "You have to be a family member," "How do you know she's not on vacation?," "Maybe she just doesn't want to see you," etc., etc. And of course there's always "Ya know, you better be right. Filing a false report is a serious crime...".
 
Bob001 said:
I would bet that the cops are skilled at discouraging formal police reports: "You have to wait 48 hours," "You have to be a family member," "How do you know she's not on vacation?," "Maybe she just doesn't want to see you," etc., etc. And of course there's always "Ya know, you better be right. Filing a false report is a serious crime...".
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Probably not so much that as a general aversion.

Once we hit the point where a community as a general rule believes calling the cops will do more harm than good everything spirals into absurd places. This is a pretty good example of that sort of thing.

It's telling that the police bring up the lack of reports as a defense as if that is not ultimately totally their fault.

The people they are supposed to protect see them as only existing to make things worse. To the extent of not formally reporting disappearances. Which kinda implies it's more plausible to them that the cops are somehow in on it than being helpful in stopping it.

Which seems insane if you come from a background where cops mostly served your interests and not from one where the cops saw themselves as a hostile occupation force
 
pgwenthold said:
Can we put this into the "media parroting copaganda" category?

The 15 year old Amber Alert victim shot by the police in San Bernadino ("San Berdue" according to Fletch).

Sheriff says she was "involved in the gun battle" and media shares his baseless claim that she shot at the police.

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1575875978961686528

Oh by the way, the only gun recovered from the scene was a rifle that was in the pickup with the father. Moreover, the media even reported the fact that the only gun recovered from the scene was a rifle that was in the pickup with the father. And they still swallowed the story that she was "involved in the gun battle" and parroted the claim that she shot at the police.

But now, in a "stunning twist" to the story, it's likely all ********.

Really? They are just coming around to that?

Everyone who heard the story from the start knew that. Except, apparently, for ABC7.
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That's EXACTLY why I didn't take the "Oh there's more to that story dontcha think LOL LOL" bait when I first shared the story.
 
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Darat said:
Marshall Project with an interesting story, priority is sniper rifles and tactical helmets for a town of just over 100,000 people. Is the USA really that dangerous?

...How A Suburb Spent COVID Relief Funds on Sniper Rifles, Tactical Helmets and Police Bonuses....
....
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The ridiculous militarization of the U.S. police over recent decades has been written about extensively. But in this case, the story says:
But it did not stop the city council from making purchases of $2 million for the police department, including sniper rifles and ballistic helmets as well as bonuses for police officers.
....
The biggest change the council made to the ARPA budget was to increase police bonus pay from $600,000 to $1.8 million.....
The council also reallocated funds for new equipment purchases: ballistic helmets, riot gear, sniper rifles, detention unit cameras, a radio tower camera system and a police dog.
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It sounds like they spent $2 million on a lot of stuff, of which rifles and helmets were a small part. And helmets aren't just for shootouts; they'd be worn in any kind of crowd control situation.
 
Bob001 said:
The ridiculous militarization of the U.S. police over recent decades has been written about extensively. But in this case, the story says:



It sounds like they spent $2 million on a lot of stuff, of which rifles and helmets were a small part. And helmets aren't just for shootouts; they'd be worn in any kind of crowd control situation.
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The article says they spent £2 million on purchases. The bonus increase was separate to that. And again is this small town of just over 100,000 people so dangerous you need "more" sniper rifles and tactical helmets?
 
Darat said:
Marshall Project with an interesting story, priority is sniper rifles and tactical helmets for a town of just over 100,000 people. Is the USA really that dangerous?

...How A Suburb Spent COVID Relief Funds on Sniper Rifles, Tactical Helmets and Police Bonuses....

ETA: This might help explain why the bad apples have been allowed to spoil the barrel: We Surveyed U.S. Sheriffs. See Their Views on Power, Race and Immigration
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You never know when you might need a SWAT team to gun down a serial jaywalker!
 
shemp said:
You never know when you might need a SWAT team to gun down a serial jaywalker!
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About 20+ years ago, in Oak Hill, WV, a few cows wandered onto US19 in the middle of the night and decided they liked it there. US19 is a major north south corridor for people in large parts of the northeast rust belt to drive south. It gets a lot of high speed traffic.

So the local cops are called out, general hilarity ensues. Oak Hill is rural but more coal mine and hollow rural than farm rural. So they really didn't have solid plans on what to do.

Well, one of the officers who had just been away on sniper training took the initiative of setting up on an overpass about 300yds or so away. One of the officers trying to shoo the cows was telling me that the guy got on the radio saying something like:

"Clear shot. Permission to fire. Clear shot. Permission to fire. Clear shot. Permission to fire."

Until someone stopped laughing long enough to tell him to go home or at least go try to find a farmer or something.

It's a silly story, but really kind of terrifying.

ETA: I think Oak hill had maybe 8K people at the time. Not exactly a metropolis.
 
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Suddenly said:
About 20+ years ago, in Oak Hill, WV, a few cows wandered onto US19 in the middle of the night and decided they liked it there. US19 is a major north south corridor for people in large parts of the northeast rust belt to drive south. It gets a lot of high speed traffic.

So the local cops are called out, general hilarity ensues. Oak Hill is rural but more coal mine and hollow rural than farm rural. So they really didn't have solid plans on what to do.

Well, one of the officers who had just been away on sniper training took the initiative of setting up on an overpass about 300yds or so away. One of the officers trying to shoo the cows was telling me that the guy got on the radio saying something like:

"Clear shot. Permission to fire. Clear shot. Permission to fire. Clear shot. Permission to fire."

Until someone stopped laughing long enough to tell him to go home or at least go try to find a farmer or something.

It's a silly story, but really kind of terrifying.

ETA: I think Oak hill had maybe 8K people at the time. Not exactly a metropolis.
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If they didn't have the capability to drive live cattle of the highway, I'm guessing they didn't have the capability to haul off dead ones either :rolleyes:
 
Salinas police: Off-duty officer cleaning gun mistakenly shoots self, kills bystander

SALINAS, Calif. - An off-duty officer accidentally shot through his own hand and then hit and killed a 20-year-old man last week, according to the Salinas Police Department.

Santa Cruz officer Francisco Villicana was cleaning his personal gun Friday around 5:45 p.m. near the 1500 block of Antelope Drive when he mistakenly fired the single round that killed Luis Alfredo Ferro-Sanchez, police said.

When officers arrived to the scene they found Villicana with a gunshot wound to his hand, and Ferro-Sanchez to his upper torso. Both were taken to the hospital, where Ferro-Sanchez died.

"This tragic incident is devastating for everyone involved, and we acknowledge many people are grieving," said Santa Cruz Police Chief Bernie Escalante.
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How much you wanna bet that he suffers nothing more than a slap on the wrist?
 
sarge said:
Impossible to prove of course, but I consider it likely that the self-inflicted hand would occurred after he shot the brown guy.
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The officer himself is also brown... but geez I'm skeptical. When that type of accident happens IMO its one of lack of basic knowledge, drugs/alcohol, you weren't actually cleaning it but were showing off.

Did it happen in his apartment or at a gun range? Or out on the street? Forensics can likely tell if it was fired once or twice.
 
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