Cont: The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

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bruto said:
I agree with the "if." I think it's a big one, though, and I'd want a very good explanation of how the camera was "inactivated" at such a convenient time. I suppose it depends on the camera, but in one recent case (in which cops gunned down a person in a driveway for no good reason and then left him to die) the cameras, though they conveniently neglected to turn them on until after the murder, recorded sound before.

I imagine some of this may never be known, and some will depend on when and whether we see all the alternate video of the event. My cursory reading of the article in the link did not come up with actual video, only stills, so at least so far, we don't know all that transpired, including how the camera got turned off or how the suspect got hold of the taser.

Of course I wouldn't expect you to have any sympathy for the victim. Mine is limited, but not absent. It's customary to justify a cop killing a suspect when that suspect poses a danger either to the cop or the public. It remains to be seen why he appears to have panicked, but it's kind of hard to think even a bad and stupid person, even one with a taser in his hands, deserves to be shot point blank in the head for a misdemeanor traffic charge.
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From the video it looks like the suspect got hold of the taser because the cop drew it it use it but the suspect grabbed his hand and directed the 'shot' into the ground but it's not that clear - for instance the taser seems brightly coloured and I'm not sure a PD one would be, so perhaps it was the suspect's taser. On first viewing though it looked like the cop was holding it and the suspect was trying to direct it away from himself ie trying to avoid being tasered....just rewatched and it's definitely the cop's taser - I paused several times and it's clearly in the cop's hand and he tries to direct it at the suspect who then grabs it to direct it away.

ETA At no time could I see any violence directed at the cop by the suspect. All the struggling was him trying to get away, then trying not to be tasered.
 
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Ethan Thane Athen said:
ETA At no time could I see any violence directed at the cop by the suspect. All the struggling was him trying to get away, then trying not to be tasered.
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Indeed. 100% a "comply or die" killing. The man was resisting, but was not a lethal threat to the cop by any stretch of the imagination.

Remains to be seen if any prosecution comes of this clearly criminal homicide.
 
It's going to be hard to defend the inevitable "he went for my taser", defence when the damn thing had been fired and was only capable of contact arcing.

It's kinda hard to carry out that manoeuvre when you're face down with nothing in your hands and a cop on your back
 
Warp12 said:
I'm pretty sure that doesn't give those being detained and/or under arrest the right to resist violently and grab Police weapons.
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Violet resistance to government and it's agents when said agents abuse their authority was baked into the very formation of the United States.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Indeed. 100% a "comply or die" killing. The man was resisting, but was not a lethal threat to the cop by any stretch of the imagination.

Remains to be seen if any prosecution comes of this clearly criminal homicide.
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Would he be a lethal threat if he grabbed the officer's gun? Would he be a threat if he overpowered the officer? Obviously he is not acting in a rational manner, or he would not be resisting like that in the first place.

I find it amusing the lengths some people will go to in order to deny that these perps had any responsibility in their own demise. Can you imagine watching that video in court, and then proclaiming, "he posed no threat to the officer"? Pure comedy.

In a way you have to laugh at these outcomes. Every time, someone is sure to claim that the result was entirely the fault of law enforcement. They are doing their part to ensure that people like this dead fool continue to act in ways that lead to their own demise.
 
Warp12 said:
Would he be a lethal threat if he grabbed the officer's gun? Would he be a threat if he overpowered the officer?
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Why not ask "would be be a lethal threat if he were the monster from Alien". Why are you appealing to things that aren't real or didn't happen.

Warp12 said:
Obviously he is not acting in a rational manner, or he would not be resisting like that in the first place.
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Not wanting to be tazed seems pretty rational, is it your contention that rational people let themselves be tazed?
 
lomiller said:
Violet resistance to government and it's agents when said agents abuse their authority was baked into the very formation of the United States.
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I often use this defense in court when I am brought up on resisting charges. I keep it handy, along with my sovereign citizen handbook. So far it hasn't worked.
 
bluesjnr said:
It's going to be hard to defend the inevitable "he went for my taser", defence when the damn thing had been fired and was only capable of contact arcing.
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The **** it will be. They'll just lie or demand we talk about alternative universes where something else happened.
 
When a Black guy dies, we get this:
Warp12 said:
As for the dead guy, I have no sympathy for him whatsoever. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Warp12 said:
That is independent of me feeling absolutely zero sympathy for the dead guy.
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When a racist white pedophile dies, we get this:
Warp12 said:
So, we are all in agreement then, the death of this pedo was no big loss?

Which more justifies his death...his prior criminal record, or that he called someone a name?
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Warp12 said:
Still waiting for answers to my question, from those who are celebrating this guy's death.

But I understand the silence.
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So to recap, when a Black guy is killed by the police, let's break out the champagne and then piss it out all over his grave.

But when a racist white pedophile dies, let's have a serious discussion about the moral implications of showing a lack of sympathy for him.
 
Ethan Thane Athen said:
From the video it looks like the suspect got hold of the taser because the cop drew it it use it but the suspect grabbed his hand and directed the 'shot' into the ground but it's not that clear - for instance the taser seems brightly coloured and I'm not sure a PD one would be, so perhaps it was the suspect's taser. On first viewing though it looked like the cop was holding it and the suspect was trying to direct it away from himself ie trying to avoid being tasered....just rewatched and it's definitely the cop's taser - I paused several times and it's clearly in the cop's hand and he tries to direct it at the suspect who then grabs it to direct it away.

ETA At no time could I see any violence directed at the cop by the suspect. All the struggling was him trying to get away, then trying not to be tasered.
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Just one little bit here: It would, I think, be appropriate for the taser to be brightly colored, so as to avoid the mistake (about which we have had a long thread already) of grabbing the gun instead of the taser.

And although I have not watched the video, it does not surprise me in the least to find that the reason the taser is in play here is not that the suspect simply seized it, but that the cop was planning to use it on him. After all, when a suspect is confused and unable to understand what is going on, that's the standard means of correction, isn't it?

I still want to know how the cop's body camera got turned off.
 
To look at another facet of police behavior, you also have to remember they're incredibly lazy when it comes to actually doing police work.

For example, say you're a cyclist who's the victim of a road rage attack where a Jeep wrangler driver drives down the wrong side of the road in an attempt to either kill you in a front end crash or scare you into thinking you're about to die. Hand over helmet camera footage showing this unambiguous crime, which is at least aggravated assault, and the cops will shrug their shoulders and claim it's a "he said, she said" problem that can't be resolved.

Video shows Jeep driver swerving wrong-way into path of bicyclist outside Houston
Deer Park police are not investigating the incident, calling the ordeal a matter of 'he said, she said.'

...

The driver took off further south on Georgia Avenue, driving for about a minute before making a U-turn and heading back north toward the cyclist. By that point, he had pulled out a dose of pepper spray in the event the incident escalated. But his Mace was no match for a two-ton Wrangler.

In the video, the driver of the Jeep makes the U-turn, crosses into the southbound lanes, and comes barreling towards the cyclist to within feet of striking him before turning the wheel.
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https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/deer-park-bicyclist-jeep-road-rage-17084052.php

The cops are not only allowed to hurt you whenever they like, they also won't lift a finger to help you if they don't feel like it.

You might assume that living in a society that wastes so much money on bloated police departments, you might actually get good policing services when you needed them. But you'd be wrong.
 
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Despite so many places having "to protect and serve" emblazoned on their cop cars, it's amazing how many court cases have concluded that the occupants are in no way obligated to do so.
 
bruto said:
Despite so many places having "to protect and serve" emblazoned on their cop cars, it's amazing how many court cases have concluded that the occupants are in no way obligated to do so.
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I think I actually kind of understand why it's that way. Even a well run, properly reformed police department needs the discretion to prioritize. Obviously that discretion can be abused. Are there clear rules that can distinguish that, so that a courtroom could help? Or in that situation do the voters need to replace the leadership?
 
gnome said:
I think I actually kind of understand why it's that way. Even a well run, properly reformed police department needs the discretion to prioritize. Obviously that discretion can be abused. Are there clear rules that can distinguish that, so that a courtroom could help? Or in that situation do the voters need to replace the leadership?
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I can sort of go along with that up to the point of the false advertising.

They should paint over those logos on the cars and replace them with "watch your ass, boy!"
 
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