Cont: The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

[shemp]

Las Vegas police officer committed armed robbery on at least three casinos, using his police-issued gun to intimidate cashiers.



At least he was off duty at the time.

What an idiot! He should have stolen money legally using civil forfeiture laws like other cops do!

 

[Darat]

I may not be keeping up here, but have we yet come across the incident in which the police illegally detained a car passenger, and not getting the results they wanted, pulled down his pants and tased him in the genitals while his kids screamed in the back seat?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/10/us/glendale-arizona-police-stun-gun-taser-lawsuit/index.html

BINGO!

Never thought I'd get that one on my card!

 

[Aridas]

Here's a bit of a tangent with value as a counterpoint to a rather obvious line of cop defense.

Denver Has Sent Mental Health Teams Instead Of Cops Over 2000 Times. No Police Back-Up Needed. Ever.

 

[shemp]

Here's a bit of a tangent with value as a counterpoint to a rather obvious line of cop defense.

Denver Has Sent Mental Health Teams Instead Of Cops Over 2000 Times. No Police Back-Up Needed. Ever.

I wonder how many murders by police officers they've prevented. But no, they're soft on crime!

 

[erlando]

Here's a bit of a tangent with value as a counterpoint to a rather obvious line of cop defense.

Denver Has Sent Mental Health Teams Instead Of Cops Over 2000 Times. No Police Back-Up Needed. Ever.

I'll have "No ****, Sherlock" for 400, Alex.

 

[Checkmite]

This happened recently in a neighborhood of New York with the same results and I think there was someone around who was absolutely adamant that the results didn't mean anything.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Here's a bit of a tangent with value as a counterpoint to a rather obvious line of cop defense.

Denver Has Sent Mental Health Teams Instead Of Cops Over 2000 Times. No Police Back-Up Needed. Ever.

By comparison, here's how San Diego PD responded to an incident of a woman brandishing a knife at a cop trying to serve an eviction:

Sheriff’s officials on Friday released footage of deputies and a police officer shooting and killing a woman last week inside a Little Italy condo complex after she stabbed a police officer during the service of an eviction notice.

The videos show the first deputy almost immediately drawing his gun and threatening to shoot 47-year-old Yan Li when he sees her holding the knife. Later, deputies and officers barge into her unit, and after she charges at them with the blade, several of them shoot her in her doorway as their colleagues fall over each other in the crowded hallway.

A civil rights attorney who viewed the footage said the shooting appeared to be lawful because the woman had attacked the officers and deputies, but questioned and criticized the actions of the law enforcement personnel in the leadup to the shooting.

A member of the public is gunned down and a cop gets stabbed, another job well done!

An emotionally disturbed woman brandishes a knife at a cop before retreating into an apartment. They have the subject cornered, so what's the best response? Barging into the unit forcing a violent conclusion.

40 minutes pass between the initial incident between the woman and the lone officer and when they have assembled a breaching team. Obviously no alternative to violent confrontation that all but guaranteed a member of the public was leaving in a bodybag was considered.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/story/2022-03-11/footage-shows-law-enforcement-fatally-shoot-woman-during-service-of-little-italy-eviction-notice

Social workers? Mental health counselors? That's pansy ****. Guns blazing lets getter dun. Yeehaw, please notify the next of kin.

 

[Dr. Keith]

If they hadn’t acted she may have hurt herself.

 

[Suddenly]

That'll earn a 3 day suspension and fine for a fraction of what was stolen, right?

He robbed a casino in Nevada. The cops sometimes forget that they are only beyond accountability when they are hurting marginalized people.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

New bodycam out of miami cop knocking a handcuffed woman unconscious. The woman was committing the most serious crime, contempt of cop, and was flung facefirst while handcuffed out of the back of a police SUV, slamming her head into the pavement.

The fellow cop on the scene later lied about the incident in an official report. Another covered their bodycam with their hand to obscure the assault.

While the pig in question has resigned, there have been no criminal charges for the assault or perjury.

The CIP staff recommends closing the case against both officers who have left the force and exonerating Bertrand because he returned the incomplete report the same day. The agency did sustain allegations against another officer, Matthew Hall, who covered up his body camera with his hand and failed to unmute his camera in violation of department orders.

The civilian panel has no disciplinary power. It can make recommendations to the police chief based on an independent assessment of whether or not department rules were followed.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article259389239.html

The violent arrest began because the victim flicked cigarette ash on the cop car while passing by on foot. Truly a mystery why members of the public may have a contemptuous attitude of their local heroes in blue.

ETA: A local prosecutor refusing to prosecute unambiguous cases of criminal assault by cops is something that the feds could jump on if the issue of police abuse was something they actually cared about. All uses of excessive force by cops are easily a civil rights violation that make such incidents a federal matter should anyone care to raise a stink.

 

[Disbelief]

Not police specifically, but the judicial system.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-inmates-file-class-action-163200992.html

Under Connecticut’s prison debt law, the state charges people $249 dollars a day, or $90,885 a year, for the cost of their incarceration, the ACLU said, adding that the amount is more than what an in-state student would owe for 2.5 years of attendance at the University of Connecticut, including housing, food and books.

 

[erlando]

Not police specifically, but the judicial system.

Under Connecticut’s prison debt law, the state charges people $249 dollars a day, or $90,885 a year, for the cost of their incarceration, the ACLU said, adding that the amount is more than what an in-state student would owe for 2.5 years of attendance at the University of Connecticut, including housing, food and books.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-inmates-file-class-action-163200992.html

Median salary in the US is around $1000 a week. So you're double in the hole for each week you're in prison. Then when you get out you have an enormous debt. And as an ex-convict you might not be able to get a $1000 a week job anytime soon.

This just reinforces my belief that rehabilitation is very, very low on the list in the US. It's all about revenge and keeping people down.

 

[JoeMorgue]

ETA: A local prosecutor refusing to prosecute unambiguous cases of criminal assault by cops is something that the feds could jump on if the issue of police abuse was something they actually cared about. All uses of excessive force by cops are easily a civil rights violation that make such incidents a federal matter should anyone care to raise a stink.

Again this is why I think getting rid of qualified immunity and a federal level law/precedent that gives the Federal Government the right to prosecute law enforcement when state/local level refuse to will give us more actual bang for our buck than playing legal whack a mole with each individual case.

It's the fact that cops are willing to do this on camera, with witnesses, in broad daylight without any fear of reprisals that's the problem.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Again this is why I think getting rid of qualified immunity and a federal level law/precedent that gives the Federal Government the right to prosecute law enforcement when state/local level refuse to will give us more actual bang for our buck than playing legal whack a mole with each individual case.

It's the fact that cops are willing to do this on camera, with witnesses, in broad daylight without any fear of reprisals that's the problem.

No precedent is needed, it's already unambiguously illegal. We see this happen from time to time for higher profile incidents. A recent notable example was when Chauvin and friends were all charged with civil rights violations for excessive force in the killing of Floyd.

I would imagine more staff would be needed to actually take an interest in the many, many cases of police civil rights abuses in this country, but there's no legal reason why this couldn't happen at any moment.

https://www.justice.gov/crt/addressing-police-misconduct-laws-enforced-department-justice

 

[JoeMorgue]

No precedent is needed, it's already unambiguously illegal.

So was lynching but "LOL I just won't prosecute" was why it was a thing.

No matter what the book says everything is legal until someone actually stops you.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

So was lynching but "LOL I just won't prosecute" was why it was a thing.

No matter what the book says everything is legal until someone actually stops you.

Indeed. Seeing as the overwhelming response to years of intense public protest about police abuse was for both major parties to compete with eachother in giving the cops more money, I don't see attitudes changing in the near future.

The tools needed to dismantle the toxic cop culture in this country are all there, waiting to be used. It's a matter of finding politicians who have any interest in doing so.

 

[Suddenly]

Indeed. Seeing as the overwhelming response to years of intense public protest about police abuse was for both major parties to compete with eachother in giving the cops more money, I don't see attitudes changing in the near future.

The tools needed to dismantle the toxic cop culture in this country are all there, waiting to be used. It's a matter of finding politicians who have any interest in doing so.

They aren't, really. Criminal prosecution is not going to make much of a dent because of the burdens involved but even more because the people doing the prosecuting are going to be inherently disinterested being we are sending cops after cops.

Widening the scope of civil liability has the effect of creating a whole bunch of individual watchdog groups made up of lawyers looking to get 1/3 of a fat judgement.

The whole reason big business has spent decades and billions of dollars demonizing plaintiffs attorneys and discrediting personal injury lawsuits in general is because they are extremely effective in deterring economically exploitative misconduct leading to harm. In the big picture those greedy bastards have done more for public safety than the entire law enforcement apparatus.

 

[ponderingturtle]

So was lynching but "LOL I just won't prosecute" was why it was a thing.

No matter what the book says everything is legal until someone actually stops you.

Hey we finally passed federal anti lynching laws. It only took them 100 years.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Also the problem is if you get a civil win against a police force you're probably just getting the money from either a municipal budget or some kind of insurance.

Like can you really sue a Police Force or do you have to just sort of by default sue to town itself on any functional level?

So Officer Cropsky fires 38 warning shots into the back of a wheelchair bound black thalidomide baby and gets sued for 80 million dollars, what the odds that the town's school or roads or fire department or social services are going to eat that cost while the police force gets funding for more AR-15s and tanks to hand out traffic tickets?

Here's an idea. Start taking the money out of officer pension funds.

 

[Suddenly]

Also the problem is if you get a civil win against a police force you're probably just getting the money from either a municipal budget or some kind of insurance.

Like can you really sue a Police Force or do you have to just sort of by default sue to town itself on any functional level?
So Officer Cropsky fires 38 warning shots into the back of a wheelchair bound black thalidomide baby and gets sued for 80 million dollars, what the odds that the town's school or roads or fire department or social services are going to eat that cost while the police force gets funding for more AR-15s and tanks to hand out traffic tickets?

Here's an idea. Start taking the money out of officer pension funds.

It would be like suing any other professional who causes harm. They need insurance and police unions could form a mutual insurance company pretty easily. It would be nice to codify that, really. Force the cops to collectively insure so when they lose the 80M it comes out of their own pockets so maybe they decide to self-police a bit.

The key to all of this is deterrence. It isn't so much the having to pay the occasional whopping judgment that will matter. It is that when immunity doesn't block a suit there is going to be discovery and that discovery is what terrifies police department. They can block FOIA requests way easier than a subpoena.