Cont: The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

[erlando]

Police chief trains his cops to shoot for the legs first.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/georgia-police-chief-aims-to-shoot-not-kill/

Don't worry. The resident lethal force enthusiasts will be along shortly to tell him that shooting for the legs doesn't work. (aka here we go again)

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Don't worry. The resident lethal force enthusiasts will be along shortly to tell him that shooting for the legs doesn't work. (aka here we go again)

I remain skeptical. Historically we see new "less lethal" techniques promising the reduction of use of force and police killings, in reality they are more often just used as new and creative ways to brutalize people.

When Tasers were first introduced, they were advertised as a way to reduce more dangerous types of force, perhaps even as a substitute for guns in certain applications. In reality cops just use these devices as a convenient and fast way to take control of people they are trying to arrest. They've become an "easy button" for incapacitating people and have done little to decrease harm. They are routinely abused as pain compliance tools in ways that are totally inappropriate and wildly dangerous.

Cops might say they're going to start shooting people in the legs to save lives, but I don't buy it. I imagine such a policy would increase total numbers of police shootings and fatalities, not decrease.

 

[bonzombiekitty]

I remain skeptical. Historically we see new "less lethal" techniques promising the reduction of use of force and police killings, in reality they are more often just used as new and creative ways to brutalize people.

I remain skeptical because, IMO, barring some rare outliers, if you are shooting someone you have concluded your life is in imminent danger and you need to ensure that threat stops, so you aim for center mass.

If going for a harder to hit target (the leg), then I question your threat assessment. The issue is not what you are aiming for, it's with your decision to shoot in the first place.

 

[Babbylonian]

I remain skeptical because, IMO, barring some rare outliers, if you are shooting someone you have concluded your life is in imminent danger and you need to ensure that threat stops, so you aim for center mass.

If going for a harder to hit target (the leg), then I question your threat assessment. The issue is not what you are aiming for, it's with your decision to shoot in the first place.

Yes. It's an excuse to open fire more often for worse reasons...and, hey, if they hit the unarmed suspected shoplifter in the head, well, it's an honest mistake in a high-stress situation.

 

[Darat]

Yes. It's an excuse to open fire more often for worse reasons...and, hey, if they hit the unarmed suspected shoplifter in the head, well, it's an honest mistake in a high-stress situation.

I agree with your points but it is still good to hear a senior police officer that wants to kill fewer citizens!

 

[Bob001]

Yes. It's an excuse to open fire more often for worse reasons...and, hey, if they hit the unarmed suspected shoplifter in the head, well, it's an honest mistake in a high-stress situation.

Not necessarily. Read the link. The chief contends, with support from research from other countries, that the traditional "aim at center mass" instruction results in a higher percentage of lethal outcomes. He contends that shooting for the legs, abdomen and pelvis will result in a more survivable wound. He doesn't try justify opening fire in more circumstances.

 

[Babbylonian]

Not necessarily. Read the link. The chief contends, with support from research from other countries, that the traditional "aim at center mass" instruction results in a higher percentage of lethal outcomes. He contends that shooting for the legs, abdomen and pelvis will result in a more survivable wound. He doesn't try justify opening fire in more circumstances.

Yes, and other countries also often only arm their most highly trained officers and don't train those officers that police work is equivalent to war.

Sorry, but I have zero trust in our police. None. Nada. Until we find a way to start from scratch (I've suggested before a 10-year process of replacing all current officers with new ones, properly trained) I never will.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I remain skeptical because, IMO, barring some rare outliers, if you are shooting someone you have concluded your life is in imminent danger and you need to ensure that threat stops, so you aim for center mass.

If going for a harder to hit target (the leg), then I question your threat assessment. The issue is not what you are aiming for, it's with your decision to shoot in the first place.

Didn't we already go through this with European forces that are trained to shoot to incapacitate rather than for center of mass?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

LONG BEACH, Calif. (CNN) - A California family is demanding answers after a school safety officer shot and critically wounded an 18-year-old woman. The victim has lost all brain function and will be taken off life support, her family says.

Manuela “Mona” Rodriguez, 18, was expected to be disconnected from life support over the weekend, said her family at a news conference Friday. Her organs will be donated. She leaves behind her 5-month-old baby.

Her family’s attorney says Rodriguez was shot in the head Sept. 27 by a school safety officer outside of the Millikan High School campus in Long Beach, California. The 18-year-old, who was not a student at the school, was fighting with a 15-year-old girl when the officer intervened.

Police say Rodriguez then got in the front passenger seat of a grey sedan, and as the vehicle accelerated quickly, the officer fired at it, hitting Rodriguez.

https://www.kswo.com/2021/10/04/woman-18-shot-by-school-safety-officer-being-taken-off-life-support/

Cop charged with murder

BREAKING: Long Beach school safety officer Eddie Gonzalez charged with murder in the shooting of 18-year-old Mona Rodriguez.

https://twitter.com/JamesQueallyLAT/status/1453476341525868544?t=ZUGKXpbPr2pOalJIO_-3gQ&s=19]

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Karen calls 911 on some homeless guy with a dog panhandling for money, cops show up, arrest him, and taze the dog which promptly flees into traffic and is killed by a car.

‘She was just doing her job’: Homeless vet loses service dog during arrest for panhandling

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/10/27/i-just-wanted-to-die-homeless-veteran-loses-service-dog-during-arrest-for-panhandling/

Protecting and serving by terrorizing the human wreckage of our forever wars, #backtheblue

 

[shemp]

I used to have a default position that police officers were ok until they proved they weren't. Now my default is that police officers are violent ******* pigs until they prove otherwise.

 

[shemp]

New York State trooper charged with murder after ramming family's car, killing 11-year-old girl

A New York State trooper has been charged with murder and manslaughter in the death of 11-year-old Monica Goods, Attorney General Letitia James announced Wednesday. Christopher Baldner is accused of ramming a car with four members of the Goods family inside, flipping the car and killing Monica while on duty in December 2020.


The attorney general's office said Baldner was in his police car when he stopped Tristan Goods for speeding in Ulster County just before midnight on December 22. He was going to visit family for Christmas and had his wife and two daughters, who are 11 and 12 years old, in the car with him. During the stop, Baldner administered pepper spray into the Goods' car and Tristan Goods sped off, the indictment said.

The trooper followed the family's car, ramming into the back of their car twice before Goods' vehicle flipped multiple times. Monica Goods was ejected from the car and died, the attorney general said.

 

[Bob001]

New York State trooper charged with murder after ramming family's car, killing 11-year-old girl

Another successful application of the pit maneuver.
https://pursuitresponse.org/limitations-pit-maneuver-police-pursuits/

 

[Checkmite]

Louisiana man who had life savings seized by DEA agents without being charged with a crime, wins legal battle to get the money returned

Kermit Warren, a New Orleans man, brought nearly $30,000 cash with him in his carry-on luggage on a flight to Columbus, Ohio last November, intending to buy a tow truck there. The money represented his life savings, and as he had lost his shoe-shine job due to the pandemic, he wanted the truck to supplement a new living collecting and selling scrap. The sale of the truck was not completed, however; and on his way through the airport to catch his return flight, he was stopped by DEA agents who seized the money when he panicked and gave unsatisfying answers to their questions about it, including one false offhand remark about having been a former police officer. Warren was never charged with anything at any point - or even arrested - he was allowed to continue on his flight; but the money was summarily confiscated. It has taken him and his lawyer all year to prove his innocence to a point that satisfied the government enough to order the return of the money.

Law enforcement at all levels of government are empowered to seize money and property found during "investigations" that never lead to charges, under the argument that even if an actual crime is never found and nobody is ever charged with anything, there are certain amounts of cash money and/or certain ways of carrying it that law enforcement officers "just know" can only reasonably be explained by drug criminality and any other reasoning given by someone in possession of such an amount is inherently absurd and dishonest (an argument that has been made unironically by some in this very forum, it must be said); and thus, the money can be unilaterally declared criminal proceeds without any known crime attached to it and seized by law enforcement authorities.

Since the money is at once "criminal" in nature but not technically "evidence" in any case, the agency that seizes the money is not required to keep it, but (with some superficial restrictions that vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction) is generally free to spend that money however they wish.

 

[Aridas]

Louisiana man who had life savings seized by DEA agents without being charged with a crime, wins legal battle to get the money returned

Kermit Warren, a New Orleans man, brought nearly $30,000 cash with him in his carry-on luggage on a flight to Columbus, Ohio last November, intending to buy a tow truck there. The money represented his life savings, and as he had lost his shoe-shine job due to the pandemic, he wanted the truck to supplement a new living collecting and selling scrap. The sale of the truck was not completed, however; and on his way through the airport to catch his return flight, he was stopped by DEA agents who seized the money when he panicked and gave unsatisfying answers to their questions about it, including one false offhand remark about having been a former police officer. Warren was never charged with anything at any point - or even arrested - he was allowed to continue on his flight; but the money was summarily confiscated. It has taken him and his lawyer all year to prove his innocence to a point that satisfied the government enough to order the return of the money.

Law enforcement at all levels of government are empowered to seize money and property found during "investigations" that never lead to charges, under the argument that even if an actual crime is never found and nobody is ever charged with anything, there are certain amounts of cash money and/or certain ways of carrying it that law enforcement officers "just know" can only reasonably be explained by drug criminality and any other reasoning given by someone in possession of such an amount is inherently absurd and dishonest (an argument that has been made unironically by some in this very forum, it must be said); and thus, the money can be unilaterally declared criminal proceeds without any known crime attached to it and seized by law enforcement authorities.

Since the money is at once "criminal" in nature but not technically "evidence" in any case, the agency that seizes the money is not required to keep it, but (with some superficial restrictions that vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction) is generally free to spend that money however they wish.

On that note...

'Highway robbers': How a trip to buy farmland ended with police taking all his cash
A Vietnamese immigrant and his business partner are fighting to get back more than $100,000 seized by Oklahoma police who allege that it was drug money.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Newly minted MA state trooper kills motorcyclist while driving drunk at 1:30 AM on the freeway.

Off-duty, newly-graduated state police trooper charged with OUI following deadly motorcycle crash


At Carr’s arraignment, prosecutor Amanda Cascione said Carr and a woman spent the hours before the fatal crash drinking at three Boston establishments. The woman told police Kristopher Carr consumed up to seven drinks during the night, including whiskey, beer, and vodka seltzer. The woman told police she was in the SUV with Carr.

“She indicated the defendant was operating and her memory of the incident is that they were driving south on Route 93,” Cascione said. “She indicated to troopers that the defendant leaned over to attempt to kiss her. And the next thing she remembers happening is the collision and the airbags being deployed.”

https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/off-duty-newly-graduated-state-police-trooper-charged-with-oui-following-deadly-motorcycle-crash/JB62PCPI5RHQ5DMU7LTUT5CIN4/

The rookie trooper was a veteran of a local police force before joining the state police.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Good cops quit

Only Minneapolis police officer formally disciplined for misconduct tied to the department's riot response has left job, Minnesota
She alleged she had long been target of bias in MPD.

Colleen Ryan is an openly gay, liberal feminist who wears T-shirts emblazoned with Ruth Bader Ginsburg quotes.

She's also the only Minneapolis police officer formally disciplined for misconduct tied to the department's riot response last year that prompted repeated allegations of unchecked police brutality.

Ryan's infraction: speaking without permission to a magazine columnist about what she called a toxic, para-militant police culture that breeds dangerous officers like Derek Chauvin.

The 29-year-old quit her job Oct. 21 and left Minnesota a week later for a new career outside the country. Ryan also filed a complaint with the Minnesota Department of Human Rights, alleging her former employer discriminated against her because she's a lesbian who advocated for "women and queer officers" in the workplace. The state is investigating the charge.

https://www.startribune.com/only-minneapolis-police-officer-formally-disciplined-for-misconduct-tied-to-the-department-s-riot-re/600111337/

The only cop formally disciplined for MPD's wildly violent response to anti-police protests was someone who spoke to a liberal journalist.

 

[erlando]

Louisiana man who had life savings seized by DEA agents without being charged with a crime, wins legal battle to get the money returned

Kermit Warren, a New Orleans man, brought nearly $30,000 cash with him in his carry-on luggage on a flight to Columbus, Ohio last November, intending to buy a tow truck there. The money represented his life savings, and as he had lost his shoe-shine job due to the pandemic, he wanted the truck to supplement a new living collecting and selling scrap. The sale of the truck was not completed, however; and on his way through the airport to catch his return flight, he was stopped by DEA agents who seized the money when he panicked and gave unsatisfying answers to their questions about it, including one false offhand remark about having been a former police officer. Warren was never charged with anything at any point - or even arrested - he was allowed to continue on his flight; but the money was summarily confiscated. It has taken him and his lawyer all year to prove his innocence to a point that satisfied the government enough to order the return of the money.

Law enforcement at all levels of government are empowered to seize money and property found during "investigations" that never lead to charges, under the argument that even if an actual crime is never found and nobody is ever charged with anything, there are certain amounts of cash money and/or certain ways of carrying it that law enforcement officers "just know" can only reasonably be explained by drug criminality and any other reasoning given by someone in possession of such an amount is inherently absurd and dishonest (an argument that has been made unironically by some in this very forum, it must be said); and thus, the money can be unilaterally declared criminal proceeds without any known crime attached to it and seized by law enforcement authorities.

Since the money is at once "criminal" in nature but not technically "evidence" in any case, the agency that seizes the money is not required to keep it, but (with some superficial restrictions that vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction) is generally free to spend that money however they wish.

Civil forfeiture is a scandal. How a nation such as the USA has such a practice is beyond belief.

 

[Darat]

Civil forfeiture is a scandal. How a nation such as the USA has such a practice is beyond belief.

In the UK we had to create new legislation to be able to go after the "big" criminals - such as ex-dictators. Sounds like the USA police can simply decide you've too much cash!

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Veteran Inglewood police officer arrested for trafficking narcotics

A veteran Inglewood police officer and a man once approved to be his confidential informant are facing federal drug trafficking charges, according to court documents unsealed on Friday.

John Abel Baca, a 45-year-old Whittier resident and a 21-year veteran of the Inglewood Police Department, was arrested Oct. 21 after a federal grand jury returned a two-count indictment charging him with distribution of cocaine, according to the U.S. attorney’s office for the Central District of California.

Baca’s case was unsealed Friday after his alleged accomplice, 42-year-old South Los Angeles resident Gerardo Ekonomo, was arrested, prosecutors said.

FBI agents carried out a search warrant Thursday at Ekonomo’s home, where they seized drugs buried in his yard, a gun and ammunition inside the residence, prosecutors said.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-10-29/inglewood-police-officer-arrested-faces-federal-drug-trafficking-charges