The atheist who prayed

[Seismosaurus]

The following is a perfectly true in every detail. It's nothing Earth shattering or even particularly interesting, but I thought I would relate it and this seemed an appropriate place.

I've been going through a somewhat difficult time recently. A friend betrayed me, and a loved one chose to side with him against me - and then made me accept his betrayal and forgive him (though he had not apologised and had in fact made it clear that he wasn't particularly sorry). I've been alternately angry and depressed about this for a week or so.

The other day another friend bumped into me and said she would "add me to the prayer list". I thanked her, and she said something about not having a lot of pull in that area recently. I told her that as a non-believer I didn't even try praying myself.

She challenged me to do two things :

1) Sometime when your in a quiet spot and nothing is going on just sit for a few minutes and let your heart open to him; just allow him to touch you. Just sit there quietly and just be open to it.

2) Again when its quiet and nothing going on, just sit down and tell him what is going on in your life. Details and how you feel whats bugging you and whats good about things, just like your talking to a friend and telling them you problems.

I've tried something like this before, but thought what the hell, it's been a long time, so I agreed to give it a go. I went to a quiet room in the house and sat there; no music, no TV, nothing, for about five minutes, just relaxing. Then I opened up a monologue in my head. I didn't write it down or anything but it was along the lines of :

"god, I know I'm not a believer in you really, and perhaps I have no right to ask this of you, but I am going to ask anyway. I am going through a difficult time lately, as I guess you know. I'm not asking you to fix it, I'm not asking you to turn the world on its head for me. I'm told you have a plan, and I'm not going to presume to second guess you on that. But I'm down, I'm unhappy, and I'd be really grateful if you could give me some sort of sign that things can be okay. I'm not asking for a booming voice from the sky or anything, just... some feeling inside, some hint of your strength or support. Thanks."

Nothing.

I went and entertained myself for a bit, then came back before bed and relaxed a little again before doing my second assignment. I explained in more detail what had happened, and just talked about this and that inside my head for a bit.

Nothing.

Does it prove anything? No, not really. I don't doubt that a believer can say that I wasn't really being honest or open - maybe suspecting that my thinking was "this won't work, and then I'll be even more sure that there isn't a god!"

I know I cannot prove to anybody that that is not the case. All I can do is give my own word, for whatever that might be worth, that this was an absolutely genuine attempt to open myself up to some higher force. I am open to the possibility that there is a god and maybe he just decided the answer was a resounding "no", or maybe he's just pissed at me for being an atheist all this time or whatever.

So no answers. No proof that anything is there, no proof that it isn't. Like I said, nothing that will shake the world, just a little true story about an atheist who prayed.

 

[KingMerv00]

A few years ago, I did the same thing. Same results.

 

[ChristineR]

I do this all the time. I come from a religious background, and often find myself surrounded by prayer, and often have the chance to give God a little reminder of my existence.

According to a certain subset of humanity, we don't exist. We are liars. Sort of like psychics, except we don't make any money at this. There's not much you can say to those people, except that if they really wanted to help us, they could start by believing we exist.

 

[l0rca]

I tried it a long time ago too. I've also offered my soul and eternal service to Satan if he would appear to me. A few moments later I felt entirely silly about it... then I did it the right way: I asked Satan if he could make a hot chick appear and make wild sex with me. I felt less silly, but was left unsatisfied.

 

[Azure]

If you're looking for 'proof' you're not going to find it.

Especially through prayer.

 

[pgwenthold]

Don't tell us, tell that to the chick who Seismo referenced:

"The other day another friend bumped into me and said she would "add me to the prayer list"."

 

[sphenisc]

I tried it a long time ago too. I've also offered my soul and eternal service to Satan if he would appear to me. A few moments later I felt entirely silly about it... then I did it the right way: I asked Satan if he could make a hot chick appear and make wild sex with me. I felt less silly, but was left unsatisfied.

She just prayed harder than you did...

 

[slingblade]

If you're looking for 'proof' you're not going to find it.

Especially through prayer.

Well, that's stupid.

Funny thing: my kids know exactly who I am.

I never hid myself from them after they were born and demanded that they seek me out. I never threatened them with the removal of my presence from their lives if they didn't believe in me without seeing me. I never threatened to punish them forever if they disobeyed the mom-they-never-saw-but-had-to-take-on-faith-alone.

No, my kids know exactly who I am. And they love me as I love them.

I was always there to help them, even if the best help I could give was to do nothing, and let them learn on their own. Even better, I taught them how to think, so they could learn to help themselves.

I never said to them: I gave you this brain that thinks and reasons, because I want you to completely ignore it and believe in something for which thought and reason are anathema. What would be the point in that? "Here's a fork; now eat your broth?" No. It's stupid, nonsensical.

If god is supposed to be our heavenly father, he's an absentee parent and should be locked up for gross neglect. But frankly, the more logical answer is that religion is a control-system, and some folks are more than willing to let others control them.

Shame, that.

 

[Seismosaurus]

If you're looking for 'proof' you're not going to find it.

Especially through prayer.

I described my motives, and looking for proof was not amongst them. This was NOT a "test" to see if god was there or not, it was an honest plea for help. And no, the fact that none was forthcoming does not prove that there is no god there.

 

[KingMerv00]

I described my motives, and looking for proof was not amongst them. This was NOT a "test" to see if god was there or not, it was an honest plea for help. And no, the fact that none was forthcoming does not prove that there is no god there.

Ah, well I prayed twice so I could say that I honestly asked God to show me his presence. A subtle change in emotion or a minor sign would have been enough. Nothing happened either time.

Some Christians claim that God would reveal himself if you honestly ask. Thought I'd give it a try in the name of science.

 

[Macoy]

When friends rip you off, all they're doing is showing that they weren't real friends at all. I think it's better to learn about "unfriends" as soon as poss. god's like that, too

 

[l0rca]

She just prayed harder than you did...

Ha!

Next time I pray though, I'm praying to The Dude. Now, he abides.

 

[Azure]

I described my motives, and looking for proof was not amongst them. This was NOT a "test" to see if god was there or not, it was an honest plea for help. And no, the fact that none was forthcoming does not prove that there is no god there.

I really don't know what to say.

I've encountered many atheists who have done the old prayer thing...and when God didn't instantly answer their prayer...they went on the old, 'see, told you God doesn't listen' path.

Personally I don't think prayer is something that gets an answer overnight...or in an instant.

 

[wolfgirl]

I really don't know what to say.

I've encountered many atheists who have done the old prayer thing...and when God didn't instantly answer their prayer...they went on the old, 'see, told you God doesn't listen' path.

Personally I don't think prayer is something that gets an answer overnight...or in an instant.

Yeah, but plenty of xians have told us that if we would just honestly open up our hearts to their god, he would come in and fill their hearts with some sort of feeling or emotion or something that they would know that he was with them. They proclaim that this is how they found their god, that once you've experienced the joy of having him in your heart, you can never deny his existence.

Now here come these people who are saying they have honestly tried to open their hearts to him, but no love, no joy, no overwhelming feeling or sense of his presence came to them. They weren't asking for some sort of gift, like a new car or something, they were just asking for a sign that he was there, that he was listening, that he cared, that he loved them like we are told that he loves all of us. And yet they felt nothing.

That's why some people don't believe in him even if they want to.

(Personally, the only time I have prayed in decades was when my mom was on her death bed. I silently spoke to god, asking him that if I had been wrong all this time and he actually existed, to please not take out his anger at me on my mother and punish her after her death. I have no way of knowing the results.)

 

[wolfgirl]

I've been going through a somewhat difficult time recently. A friend betrayed me, and a loved one chose to side with him against me - and then made me accept his betrayal and forgive him (though he had not apologised and had in fact made it clear that he wasn't particularly sorry). I've been alternately angry and depressed about this for a week or so.

I know how painful it can be to be betrayed by your friends. I went through a horrible betrayal myself many years ago. I remember listening to the song "I Am a Rock" over and over, like a mantra, believing that that was the way to keep from being hurt again. It actually did help me for a while, allowing me the time to heal. But I learned that, like most things, it got better with time. Some of the friends who I thought had betrayed me actually came back, and I learned that they had been confused and misinformed at the time. Others, well, they weren't really my friends anyway. Those who really mattered are still around. I hope that you will be able to move past your pain and anger. Just give yourself time.

In the meantime, sing with me...

A winter's day
In a deep and dark December;
I am alone,
Gazing from my window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow.
I am a rock,
I am an island.
I've built walls,
A fortress deep and mighty,
That none may penetrate.
I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain.
It's laughter and it's loving I disdain.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

Dont talk of love,
But I've heard the word before;
It's sleeping in my memory.
I wont disturb the slumber of feelings that have died.
If I never loved I never would have cried.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.

 

[The Great Hairy One]

I've never seen the need to pray, and I've never done it myself. Seems like a waste of time, really. I agree with Azure that regardless of the result, it doesn't prove anything. And I also agree with Wolfgirl - many christians have told me that if I "open my heart" or some such rubbish, that Jesus or their version of a god-idea will contact me.

Seems like a contradiction to me.

Cheers,
TGHO

 

[Azure]

Yeah, but plenty of xians have told us that if we would just honestly open up our hearts to their god, he would come in and fill their hearts with some sort of feeling or emotion or something that they would know that he was with them. They proclaim that this is how they found their god, that once you've experienced the joy of having him in your heart, you can never deny his existence.

I think prayer is a bit different from what you just said.

Still, you have a point. Like I said before, and I think it applies here too...its a due process. From what the Bible says, prayer doesn't get answered overnight.

Now here come these people who are saying they have honestly tried to open their hearts to him, but no love, no joy, no overwhelming feeling or sense of his presence came to them. They weren't asking for some sort of gift, like a new car or something, they were just asking for a sign that he was there, that he was listening, that he cared, that he loved them like we are told that he loves all of us. And yet they felt nothing.

And yet, I know people who profess that they felt God.

How much truth you can put into that, I don't know.

That's why some people don't believe in him even if they want to.

Fair enough. I certainly understand where you're coming from.

(Personally, the only time I have prayed in decades was when my mom was on her death bed. I silently spoke to god, asking him that if I had been wrong all this time and he actually existed, to please not take out his anger at me on my mother and punish her after her death. I have no way of knowing the results.)

Which is understandable.

 

[Macoy]

As soon as our ancestors had a couple of carcasses in the frost-hole,and their first chance to take a breath from running away from sabre-tooths, up pops Fred Flintstone in a shark suit offering to take it away for a while and then come back with a group of furry ladies and enough penguin oil to lubricate the glaciers.

They haven't looked back.

 

[Azure]

As soon as our ancestors had a couple of carcasses in the frost-hole,and their first chance to take a breath from running away from sabre-tooths, up pops Fred Flintstone in a shark suit offering to take it away for a while and then come back with a group of furry ladies and enough penguin oil to lubricate the glaciers.

They haven't looked back.

Huh?

 

[l0rca]

Seriously, it went right over me too.

Add some line breaks and you'll have Pound rolling in his grave.