The Amero

[JonathanClement]

You mean a South American Union? There already is one, and they are planning on a common currency. I don't think there's a name for it yet though. Maybe the bolívar?

Woah! Something big like that and zeitgeist COMPLETELY misses it?! Jesus... -_-

 

[Horatius]

And so I end up back at my original point: anyone who knows anything about Canadian politics would realize the NAU stuff is pure fantasy.

Which leads me to a derail I've been thinking about lately. Have any of you seen the mini-series "The Trojan Horse" from the CBC? It starts with the formation of a North American Union, and goes from there.

I expect the CTists to see it as a validation of their beliefs, and the debunkers to see it as a hilarious romp through the finest of the NAU/NWO CTs. They even have a "Thomas Paine's Jet" Moment near the end of part two.


Highly recommended for all members of the CT debate community, regardless of which side you're on.

 

[Corsair 115]

Which leads me to a derail I've been thinking about lately. Have any of you seen the mini-series "The Trojan Horse" from the CBC? It starts with the formation of a North American Union, and goes from there.

I saw the opening of it but found the premise so ludicrously unrealistic I couldn't watch the rest of it.

If the starting point had been more plausible I might have watched more (say, Quebec votes to secede which triggers some sort of constitutional crisis and subsequent national breakup of the country and the admission of provinces to the U.S. — that I could find plausible).

 

[hamelekim]

Uh, no, the NAU does not make perfect sense from a business perspective. Why? Because it all comes down to which nation's rules do you use for this union? U.S. rules? Canadian rules? Mexican rules? Some amalgam of all three? How would that be decided? I'll note that American companies operating in Canada have found that they have considerably lower health care costs than in the United States, and that saves them money (even after accounting for higher tax rates).

It makes sense for multi-national corporations. I didn't say it was best for the countries themselves, or for the small businessmen, unions, etc. How would the rules be decided? I don't know, likely how they are decided with NAFTA, WTO, etc... How do they work in the EU?

We are not talking about a single super country here, although that might eventually occur. I'm just talking about an economic and security union that goes much further.

The fact that US troops can now Enter Canada legally if the Government calls on them is scary. That means that the Canadian government could quell any descention of the Canadian people by calling on foreign help.

You would be naive to base all your policies on a perfect world. Best to look at worst case and go from there. That was what the US Constitution was based on, and it worked until the government started ignoring it.

The SPP is not legislation, nor is it laws, nor rules, nor regulations, nor even solid suggestions. The SPP is nothing more than a discussion group about harmonizing certain rules and regulations between the three countries. That's it. Can you point to even a single thing which has been implemented by the SPP over its three years? You can't because there aren't any, it's all just talk (and talk and talk). Any changes to rules, regulations, and legislation would have to pass through the legislatures of the individual governments.

Of course it isnt' legislation, if it was it wouldn't have passed. It's a way for private business to further errode the economic, political, and military sovereignty of Canada, the US, and Mexico. If you honestly believe that it is just some discussion group you are extremely naive in my opinion.

I guess time will tell who is right in that regard.

(Side question vis-a-vis the Canadian political system: exactly how would legislation be enacted without passing through Parliament? I'm not aware of any such method offhand.)

When it comes to the SPP, the "NAFTA superhighway," and the "North American Union," whatever you do, do not listen to Lou Dobbs. He drones on about this stuff from time to time, and he's completely and utterly wrong, wrong, wrong. (I realized Dobbs was full of baloney a couple of years ago when he strongly implied Canada was just another "cheap foreign labor market" stealing away American jobs.)

Well, Canada used to have cheaper labour due to the dollar, but Canada lost jobs just like the US to mexico and overseas. So what he said was hyperbole. He is right about the NAFTA superhighway though, and the NAU.

The highway is real, the plans are real. It's not hard to make a logical argument for what it will be used for. Cheap labour at Mexican ports bringing goods into the US and Canada.

It's not some big conspiracy, it's just corporations doing what's best for themselves. The fact that politicians are owned by corporations further emphasises the validity of the argument.

I would point out that the Canadian political system is very different from the American political system. Canada has, for example, strict spending limits on the parties in federal election campaigns (see: Elections Canada's current investigation into overspending by the Conservatives during the last federal election and the political scandal that might turn out to be). We have three national parties (four if you count the Green Party, though it has yet to win a seat in Parliament) plus a strong regional party. That does much to colour how Parliament works since the electorate has more choices, plus the electorate has shown its willingness to decimate political parties if sufficiently displeased (see: 1984, 1993 federal elections).

I'm well aware of the differences between the American and Canadian political systems. I am Canadian, after all.

Furthermore, no Canadian politican ever lost a lot of votes by touting some measure of anti-Americanism.

Lastly, a union won't happen because it'll be Canada and Mexico which will lose their identity and sovereignty, not the United States. It is the U.S. which dominates the continent economically, politically, and culturally. Any union will be on their terms, and no one else's.

And so I end up back at my original point: anyone who knows anything about Canadian politics would realize the NAU stuff is pure fantasy.

If you said that Americans would give up their freedoms for security before 911 you would be laughed at as well. The fact is, people act in typical fashion when under certain kinds of stress.

When the US dollar does collapse it will be a perfect breeding ground to put forward a new currency to replace the USD and to create economic stability in North America. If you think that the US hasn't abandoned the USD then you really need to read more economic news.

Jim Rogers and other wealthy people have moved all their wealth out of USD, that includes Cheney, etc... They know what is coming, they aren't stupid. Most people are stupid though, they follow the nightly economic news. The news that states everything is fine, the emperor is wearing clothes, even though he's naked.

Devaluing a currency when you have no manufacturing base is not going to improve the US economy, there is no where for the US to go but down at this point. The US is in so much debt at this point that Social Security and Medicare/Medicade is unafordable. They can't be paid for and pay the national debt which will be in the tens of trilions of dollars within a decade.

The US government shows no sign of slowing down spending or increasing taxes. All you hear from the republicans is cut more taxes... are they insane? Do they not realize the situtation the US is currently in?

The coming economic collapse will be the impitus for a North American Union and a North American Currency. It's essentially a given.

I'm not going to argue that it will succeed, I'm just arguing that it is the plan, and they are hoping that they can create enough of an economic emergency that it will force people to go along with it, in order to save their wealth.

 

[Arus808]

The coming economic collapse will be the impitus for a North American Union and a North American Currency. It's essentially a given.

sorry, but history has shown that the US, even in an economic collapse, has weathered through and come out successful in the end. This is just another "bump" in the road.

Nothing you have posted supports your claim that the NAU is going to happen. Its NOT a given and its NOT inevitable.

Stop believing the tripe that you have you have been fed.

 

[Travis]

I'm still waiting to hear why the concept of the Amero is bad and evil, at least for Americans, who seem to be the only ones scared of it which is strange since it wouldn't be their currency that would lose value if it happened. Canada, on the other hand, would likely not benefit from it. But in America we'd basically be calling our money by a new name is all.

 

[Corsair 115]

How would the rules be decided? I don't know, likely how they are decided with NAFTA, WTO, etc... How do they work in the EU?

A hell of a lot of negotiation, and given the changes required, it's not something that can be implemented by stealth with no one noticing.

The fact that US troops can now Enter Canada legally if the Government calls on them is scary.

Why? It would require the govenrment of Canada to make that request. Consider the political implications on the government that chooses to do that. There was enough controvery during the October Crisis when Trudeau invoked the War Measures Act.

That means that the Canadian government could quell any descention of the Canadian people by calling on foreign help.

Can you conceive of any remotely realistic scenario where that would be required? Also, see above.

You would be naive to base all your policies on a perfect world. Best to look at worst case and go from there. That was what the US Constitution was based on, and it worked until the government started ignoring it.

Which parts are being ignored? (You may wish to take that discussion to the Politics section since it doesn't apply here unless you can tie it to a conspiracy theory).

It's a way for private business to further errode the economic, political, and military sovereignty of Canada, the US, and Mexico.

You are ignoring a whole lot of non-business items which are affected by varying rules in each country. Immigration and tourism, for example. What standards are applicable in terms of identification required in order to enter each country? Suppose one nation's government orders a product recall due to some health or safety issue — what should the other two countries do? How about highway regulations?

Well, Canada used to have cheaper labour due to the dollar, but Canada lost jobs just like the US to mexico and overseas.

No, lots of jobs are still in Canada. The only reason manufacturing in Ontario is hurting is because of the higher dollar and for too many years exporters relied on a favourable exchange rate rather than do other things to make their businesses more competitive.

He is right about the NAFTA superhighway though, and the NAU.

No, he's not. Both are fictions.

The highway is real, the plans are real. It's not hard to make a logical argument for what it will be used for.

No, it's not. Read this Maclean's magazine article to see how the whole "NAFTA superhighway" story is nonsense.

Cheap labour at Mexican ports bringing goods into the US and Canada.

You ought to take a closer look at the figures for which countries are the prime exporters to the United States, and which countries are the prime recipients of U.S. exports.

The fact that politicians are owned by corporations further emphasises the validity of the argument.

I'm well aware of the differences between the American and Canadian political systems.

Your comments thus far do not seem to indicate that, as your quote above would indicate. The fact that Elections Canada monitors and runs federal elections, and that there are strict spending limits in federal campaigns, makes the donations of businesses to political parties of less importance than seems to be the case in the U.S.

When the US dollar does collapse it will be a perfect breeding ground to put forward a new currency to replace the USD and to create economic stability in North America.

Evidence that is will collapse is...? So its value against other currencies is low right now... so what? Take a look at the Canadian dollar's history, it's gone up and down in value against other currencies. When five years ago when the Canadian dollar was worth only $0.63 U.S. why wasn't the Canadian dollar pitched overboard?

Why wouldn't the U.S. dollar experience the same ups and downs? Why is a decrease an automatic sign of collapse (with collapse in this instance meaning a currency which becomes worthless)? What traditionally happens when a currency loses all value? Isn't runaway inflation a typical indicator? What's the inflation rate these days and how does it compare to, say, 1981? While we're at it, how do unemployment and interest rates now compare to those found in 1981?

The major reason for any instability currently can be traced back to the subprime mortgage mess. But that mess is an entirely made-in-America one, a mess created by lax regulations and questionable financial practices. There is no subprime mortgage or housing mess in Canada.

Jim Rogers and other wealthy people have moved all their wealth out of USD, that includes Cheney, etc...

And how do you know that?

The coming economic collapse will be the impitus for a North American Union and a North American Currency. It's essentially a given.

You're ignoring Canadian politics again (and likely Mexican politics as well).

I'm not going to argue that it will succeed, I'm just arguing that it is the plan, and they are hoping that they can create enough of an economic emergency that it will force people to go along with it, in order to save their wealth.

Whose plan? Where is this plan written down? Who wrote this plan? How long has this plan been in existence? Is it updated on a regular basis as economic and political conditions change?

 

[ronpaulisright]

There have been talks about a trans texas corridor and the NAFTA superhighway. Congress knows about it.

corsair, you fail to see the big picture.

 

[dudalb]

Can you conceive of any remotely realistic scenario where that would be required? Also, see above.

An Alien Invasion?

 

[dudalb]

There have been talks about a trans texas corridor and the NAFTA superhighway. Congress knows about it.

corsair, you fail to see the big picture.

I though Ron Paul was in favor of total free Trade?

 

[WildCat]

The major reason for any instability currently can be traced back to the subprime mortgage mess. But that mess is an entirely made-in-America one, a mess created by lax regulations and questionable financial practices.

I'd argue that a good part of it was not lax regulation, but too much regulation. There was a lot of government pressure put on mortgage lenders to loosen up their credit policies so that less well-off people (especially minorities) could buy a home. All in the name of fairness, of course.

 

[beachnut]

There have been talks about a trans texas corridor and the NAFTA superhighway. Congress knows about it.

corsair, you fail to see the big picture.

Do you need glasses? Your OP is funny and you have support from the paranoid conspiracy crowd. One day maturity will hit, lack of knowledge will not be the great asset you seem to enjoy now.

 

[WildCat]

There have been talks about a trans texas corridor and the NAFTA superhighway. Congress knows about it.

Tell us all about it rpir. In your own words, and not via youtube or a link.

I though Ron Paul was in favor of total free Trade?

Sure, just as long as those stinkin' Mexicans and hockey stick wieldin' Canadians aren't involved.

 

[Corsair 115]

There have been talks about a trans texas corridor and the NAFTA superhighway.

How does a highway in Texas become a vast single highway stretching from Mexico to Canada? You could also explain why this new highway is even needed considering that trade is currently able to flow between the three countries quite well without it.

Once more, read this Maclean's magazine article I posted earlier to see how a simple highway project got conflated into some gigantic continental road system.

I'd argue that a good part of it was not lax regulation, but too much regulation. There was a lot of government pressure put on mortgage lenders to loosen up their credit policies so that less well-off people (especially minorities) could buy a home. All in the name of fairness, of course.

I thought it was more the other way around — financial companies wanting more freedom to create various kinds of loan products. Subprime mortgages were aggressively marketed.

What I find curious is how little emphasis there's been on examining all the factors which led to the subprime debacle and what steps can be taken to ensure it doesn't happen again. Most of the discussion by pundits and politicans seems to be about treating the symptoms of the disease without really addressing the underlying causes of the disease.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

When the US dollar does collapse it will be a perfect breeding ground to put forward a new currency to replace the USD and to create economic stability in North America.

Where does this idea come from, that a broken economy can be fixed by simply replacing the currency used? How is that even supposed to work?

If you think that the US hasn't abandoned the USD then you really need to read more economic news.

Odd. I still get paid is USD. My bank still handles my USD transactions. Every company I deal with still accepts USD. Hell, my state even requested and accepted payment in the form of USD just last month.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Gazpacho]

I though Ron Paul was in favor of total free Trade?

People can trade whatever they can throw over the border fence.

 

[Hans]

In reading this thread I'm struck by one factor. It would seem that RPIR is simply repeating what he's been told to believe. It would seem he has been propagandized by videos and websites.

Is he one of these sheeple I've heard about?

 

[jaydeehess]

Come on , ronpaulisright, you made statements concerning Biblical predictions. We all have access to a Bible. Do you not have enough confidence in your beliefs to back them up?
I refer you to post 154 of this thread.

Let's get down to it.
Maybe you'd like to tackle the easy question first, why worry about a NAU if it will be overshadowed by pestilence, plague and the world wide reign of the antichrist?

ronpaulisright, will you be getting around to this anytime soon?

 

[jaydeehess]

For reference rpir, this is what I said in post 154

As I said, I have a good working knowledge of the Bible so perhaps you'd deign to list the passages in which it states, in the interpretation you adhere to, that 2015 is the year that the antichrist will 'takeover'. Furthermore you can also list those passages that are interpreted as meaning that Prince William of the British monarchy is the antichrist.

Please also note that if you are going to simply link to a site in which this is explained I require it first in your own words. Too many times have i been told to "read this", respond to it, and then be told that I was attacking the wrong thing or some such. I do not want the goalposts moved. I want your own consise, best arguement first.

For reference I will be using the New King James version, please let me know what version you will be using.

On the chance that you are incapable of doing that then perhaps you'd care to explain why, if the world will suffer great and horrendous calamity in 7 years, you are so very concerned about the future prospect of the USA losing some of its sovereignty through the adoption of a unified currency in N.America and a closer economic tie with the three largest countries on this continent. Will fighting a NAU and unified currency somehow postpone the antichrist's arrival? If so then would that invalidate the supposed Biblical prediction?

 

[Minadin]

For reference rpir, this is what I said in post 154

Hell, for reference, this is what I said in post 2.

The amero coin you've seen was done by an artist who mints specialty coins as a business. I believe he's actually submitted some winning designs for some of the state quarters, but he's also got some rather humorous submissions on his site, which you may purchase. You may use the search function on this subforum to find threads about it.