The 9/11 Truther Credo

pagan said:
To wrap it up. We don't have any theory. We have strong suspicions that certain elements within the Bush adm were responsible. But, we don't have any proof. One thing that we are absolutly certain of, is that the official story is false, and that is enough.
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In other words you do have a theory: a theory that somebody from the US Government was responsible. This is a positive claim and you must back it with evidence. If you don't have evidence for the full story, you must provide sufficient evidence to justify further inquiry.

You can't say because x doesn't make sense y must have occurred. This is a God of the Gaps argument.

Furthermore, we don't have to justify, to you or anyone else, the evidence-based conclusions about what happened on 9/11 (based not on a single government story but on many investigations and studies worldwide), because the world continues to function on the basis that these conclusions are fundamentally correct: there is consensus.

You have to convince the world that your version is correct and you're doing a terrible job so far. Ultimately, we don't care if you're convinced or not because you're insignificant.

What is annoying, though, is that the truther "argument" is constructed from inaccuracies, misrepresentations and downright lies and that some people are taken in by this. It is to counter this despicable behaviour (lying for "truth") many of us try and expose the nonsense that passes for CT "thought". Nobody likes a bunch of scam artists and, even if they aren't significant enough to make a difference in the big scheme of things (and, believe me, you aren't), it is for the people who are befuddled and exploited by this big lie, and the people who are pained by the accusations you make, that we call you out on your BS.

You have nothing, you are nothing, and we will continue to show this to the world.
 
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pagan said:
Please orphia, are you stalking me?

As I've stated a few times already. We truthers don't have A THEORY. So we don't have a theory to defend. We've a lot of suspicions and guesses. But, we try to avoid speculating, it would not be in our interest to do so.

On the other hand, you guys have a theory to defend. The official conspiracy theory that is. Dubya's little faerie tale? And what a silly little story it has turned out to be.
It has been disproved and debunked by the truther community long time ago.


We truthers with our limited resources cannot prove what happened.The only way to find out what took place on 9-11 is to have a new investigation, as independent as possible from the Bush adm. That is our goal. In order to reach that goal we scrutinize the official story. The one you so ardently try to defend.

I can understand that you feel a bit frustrated. It is not a very nice position to be in, to have to defend Dubya's silly story.

To wrap it up. We don't have any theory. We have strong suspicions that certain elements within the Bush adm were responsible. But, we don't have any proof. One thing that we are absolutly certain of, is that the official story is false, and that is enough.
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Got no facts and no theory! Just do not like W. Great. This make you the most wrong. You know it is wrong because you think it is wrong. (try facts)

You need no debunking you are just plain wrong out of the box. Wrong for up to 5 years. No proof just plain lies. (try facts)

I need no theory. I passed my physics class in high school and college. I need no official story to tell me how the WTC fell. I need no official story to tell me how flight 93 buried itself in the ground. I need no official story to tell me flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon. I found all the information and calculations myself. I can do my independent investigation with little to no help.

I did cheat on flight 93 buried in the ground. I was an Air Force pilot and I went to accident investigation school and that is what happens to planes when they hit the ground over 500 mph! That takes care of that. Darn all the woowoo truthers are so dumb they think it should look different they are wrong. Not sure why they try to make up stuff and show pictures of slow speed crashes when flight 93 was a high speed crash; do you?

Being in the Air Force helps me know the truthers telling lies about NORAD are wrong. Too bad NORAD never was stood down. Not sure why truthers are so dumb they believe this crap.

WTC falling is exactly how it would happen when someone speeds into the building with a jet. Sorry the design was not made for that speed and fuel entering the building. A slow speed crash would have deflected a lot of plane and fuel outside the building. Wrong on all count I have yet to see a truther present facts.

At least you come right out and say you have nothing. Yet you fail to realize most rational people understand 9/11 and how it happened. You must be nuts or just hate W so much your rational mind has taken a vacation. Good luck, no theory, no facts.

Sorry the official story is backed up by facts. I have never heard W's version. W being a pilot he understands a little more than you. Since there are only a handful of engineers and pilots who are dumb enough to make up stories and try to mislead people I do not think anyone should be worried truthers will start hanging rational people.

To wrap it up truthers with no facts and theories are the dumbest truthers to be found. They just want to investigate the most investigated event in history; maybe they can not read 10,000 pages of NIST, or the countless other independent studies all over the world by engineers and other who are improving the world by studying the tragedy of 9/11. What are you doing but failing to find facts published by so many different source you can not put together a simple theory or factual statement on 9/11.

No you just say W did it and save a lot of reading and research. You have an F in research, and an F in reading comprehension.
 
Pagan,

If you don't have a theory, and you don't have any proof, then why don't you shut the f*** up?

Actually... please congratulate yourself... you are about to be the first person on my Ignore List. Don't flatter yourself too much - I've never tried manually ignoring someone before and I'm interested in the experiment. I think I'll keep the option of allowing threads you start to be visible. But I've seen too many twoofers tie themselves in knots despite many rational people's best efforts.

About 10 years ago I went through a stage of believing a lot of weird things, and I was vocal about them and received ridicule, but one day I came to the conclusion that none of them added up to a realistic theory. I hope you find some truth one day.

I just don't care enough about fundamentally negative, holocaust-denying, paranoid ignoramuses such as you to follow every step you take towards backing yourself into a corner and committing Death by Moderator.

Enjoy your life,

Orphia.
 
pagan said:
As I've stated a few times already. We truthers don't have A THEORY. So we don't have a theory to defend. We've a lot of suspicions and guesses. But, we try to avoid speculating, it would not be in our interest to do so.
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I count at least three lies here.
  1. You do have a theory. However, if you formulate it, you know it will look stupid and contain thousand times more "anomalies" and contradictions than the standard theory. Also, it will not account for all the facts, but only for an arbitrary selection of facts, factoïds, exagerations and outright lies.
  2. You don't have suspicions and guesses. What you do have is ignorance of the laws of physics, of structural engineering, of the functioning of NORAD, FAA, ...
  3. All what "truthers" say is actually baseless speculation.
pagan said:
On the other hand, you guys have a theory to defend. The official conspiracy theory that is. Dubya's little faerie tale? And what a silly little story it has turned out to be.
It has been disproved and debunked by the truther community long time ago.
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Two more lies here.
  1. The standard theory is no fairy tale, but backed up by serious studies and by countless investigations (official, academic, journalistic).
  2. The truther community hasn't disproved anything.
pagan said:
We truthers with our limited resources cannot prove what happened.The only way to find out what took place on 9-11 is to have a new investigation, as independent as possible from the Bush adm. That is our goal. In order to reach that goal we scrutinize the official story. The one you so ardently try to defend.
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We defend the truth, the real truth. Backed up by evidence (that's why we defend it). You just invent "facts", ignore most facts, in order to satisfy your misguided ideology.

pagan said:
I can understand that you feel a bit frustrated. It is not a very nice position to be in, to have to defend Dubya's silly story.
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There is nothing frustrating in defending a theory backed up by facts. A theory that has the backing of 99.9% of the scientific community.

pagan said:
To wrap it up. We don't have any theory. We have strong suspicions that certain elements within the Bush adm were responsible. But, we don't have any proof. One thing that we are absolutly certain of, is that the official story is false, and that is enough.
Click to expand...
To wrap it up, you have nothing but your prejudice.
 
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orphia nay said:
Pagan,

If you don't have a theory, and you don't have any proof, then why don't you shut the f*** up?

Actually... please congratulate yourself... you are about to be the first person on my Ignore List. Don't flatter yourself too much - I've never tried manually ignoring someone before and I'm interested in the experiment. I think I'll keep the option of allowing threads you start to be visible. But I've seen too many twoofers tie themselves in knots despite many rational people's best efforts.

About 10 years ago I went through a stage of believing a lot of weird things, and I was vocal about them and received ridicule, but one day I came to the conclusion that none of them added up to a realistic theory. I hope you find some truth one day.

I just don't care enough about fundamentally negative, holocaust-denying, paranoid ignoramuses such as you to follow every step you take towards backing yourself into a corner and committing Death by Moderator.

Enjoy your life,

Orphia.
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That's just fine by me orphia.:)

I will not spend that much time on this forum. The more serious debates are happening on other forums.

But, I will probably drop in now and then and make a few "naughty" critical that is, posts.

Because, remember we truthers are the real sceptics and you guys are the true believers.
 
Heck yes. No two Truthers even believe the same thing about 9/11. They attack one another far more we could ever do--calling one another government shills, traitors, morons, drug fiends, etc. They throw people out of their forums like a bunch of Stalinists. Their organizations constantly split in two and go to war with one another. It doesn't get much more skeptical than that.
 
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pagan said:
That's just fine by me orphia.:)

I will not spend that much time on this forum. The more serious debates are happening on other forums.
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What, like the Loose Change forum?

Start a serious debate then. Pick an aspect of 9/11 - present your theory and a source and we'll get right to it.

Because, remember we truthers are the real sceptics and you guys are the true believers.
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Skepticism is based on facts and being skeptical of theories that defy those facts. You are skeptical of the official story - but you have nothing to base that on. Other than "OMFG WTC7 LOOKED LIKE A CD WTF!"

We're skeptical of you because you have failed to produce any kind of peer-reviewed report (The official story has presented many), you have failed to present common information (the Official story is solid fact). You're can't believe each other - what makes you think that we'll believe you?
 
pagan said:
That's just fine by me orphia.:)

I will not spend that much time on this forum. The more serious debates are happening on other forums.

But, I will probably drop in now and then and make a few "naughty" critical that is, posts.

Because, remember we truthers are the real sceptics and you guys are the true believers.
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Let me translate this:

I have no evidence to present.
I don't want you guys and galls to wipe the floor with me all the time, so I retreat to friendly "truth"-forums where sceptics are automatically banned.

(Freely provided by Firestone Translation Services Ltd)
 
pagan said:
Thank you, very interesting indeed!

Is this some kind of manual you anti-truthers use when trolling in honest truth seeking debates?

I must say, I don't envy you. We 9-11 truthers have a much easier job. All we have to do, is to find the truth.:)
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I suspect this task is much more difficult than you think it is.
 
pagan said:
I will not spend that much time on this forum. The more serious debates are happening on other forums.
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Hmm? You mean the one where the others all think thad David Irving - convincted anti-semite and proven liar - is a hero? Yes, I think we know all about the kind of people that frequent them, thank you very much.
 
pagan said:
That's just fine by me orphia.:)

I will not spend that much time on this forum. The more serious debates are happening on other forums.
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And what forums would those be? Surely not the ones where any dissenting view is immediately silenced by suspensions, bannings, and deleted posts?

That won't happen here.
 
When I was in Scotland in 2001, the weather was absolutely gorgeous! It wasn't foggy or rainy for the 4 days that I spent there...
 
mattlodder said:
I think that'd be an interesting political science graduate study - how did the word 'liberal' cease to have any real meaning in US politics? It's really absurd.

Our third biggest part are called the "Liberal Democrats", and most European countries have a Liberal party. Canada does too, doesn't it? It describes a very sensible, historically important and credibly defensible form of political engagement. It's so strange to see how the word's used in America.
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Here in Spain the world 'liberal' always meant the opposite to conservative. Since a few years ago, 'liberal' is now a term vindicated by the conservatives.
 
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