The 9/11 Conspiracy Facts

Again you are doing the simple OTer tactic of muddying the issue. If you di that, you wont lose, but no one wil win. And thats all you want,.
Pot meet kettle
Lets look at what you say anyway. Those comments, while they are just a fraction of my point about foreknowledge, are very stark.
Again, foreknowledge of what? Something may happen at some point in time somewhere in the US or abroad. Yeah, real foreknowledge specifically related to what happened on 9/11.
They elicited zero response from Bush et al. This is criminal negligence.
So the continued pressure on the Taliban to hand over OBL is not a response? So what should have been done?
You, and your ilk, have found it unable to even touch the hem of this section. Not even the hem. What hope do you have of challenging the totality?
What challenge? It's already done and you have provided nothing that would show that all those threats pointed to the unprecedented hijacking of airplanes and flying them into buildings.
Its just like the PNAC doc- I have eviscerated Gravy's LC guide on PNAC- you guys had no hope of that either.
Only in your own mind.
I will wait for someone to challenge the totallity of foreknowledge, and then, as with the PNAC section, the thread will come to its own conclusions.
Since the only conclusion of the PNAC doc is that it has nothing to do with 9/11, WOT and Iraq, this will have a similar conclusion.
 
Here is the August briefing notes.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/images/04/10/whitehouse.pdf

Note the last section states that the FBI is conducting over 70 operations to investigate this. So 70+ investigations is "doing nothing"? What else should the President have done based on the information in this briefing? Closed all the airports? Evacuated New York city? Nuked the middle east? The fact is,given the information that the President had there was nothing else that could have been done by the president. You could argue that the FBI didn't do a good job of investigating (although this is a needle in the haystack investigation at best), but something was being done. Once again you have failed to prove your point and have yet to provide any "facts"
That is not the August briefing notes. That is the 6th August PDB. Very different. Multiply that by 40, and you have an idea of what Bush was getting.

They are conducting 70 OBL related investigations. This means nothing. What were they investigating? Bush knew there were AQ terror cells in the US, he had been told in July. This was not investigated. All reports on such were ignored. He was told of the threat of plane hijackings. Not one thing done to lower the probability of this occurring. Tighten airport security. Cockpit doors. Track down the AQ agents. There is no report of this being ordered, or done.

To state that to get 40 days of warnings of an OBL terror threat, and do nothing about it 40 times, is not criminally incompetent... boy, a dank cesspit the OT mind is.
 
I for one would like to know what, SPECIFICALLY, mjd thinks Bush or the government should have done in response to those forty, at best vague, incompletely investigated, PDBs.

Speaking as someone who works in the intel community, I can tell you right now that none of those contained any ACTIONABLE intelligence and they all required further investigation, which was being carried out by various intel agencies, so I'm of the opinion that Bush did exactly what he should; sit back and wait for more specific information. It is neither his nor the intel agencies fault that more specific information did not come to light prior to the events of 9/11. And I don't know about you all, but regardless of the tragedy of that day, I'd rather have our government responding with a well-thought-out, detailed plan, with contingencies taken into account, than a half-baked, premature response to a nebulous threat that would have the potential for causing even MORE harm than the threat itself.

So how about it, mjd? Can you give me SPECIFIC, DETAILED actions that YOU feel the Pres or his government should have carried out in response to those warnings? Remember, I want specifics; not your typically vague, seemingly arrogant response that I see from you on a constant basis. List them out, one by one, and I'll let you know if they're even slightly workable based on the information given in those PDBs. I'll be waiting.

ETA: The definition of actionable intelligence, in terms of the military and government, is as follows:
You havent read the PDBs. You dont know what they say. An investigation would uncover that. Do you not want that?
 
1. i read the report and it does not say he did nothing X 40

2. you were the one who tried to use specifics and claim that the 40 PDB warnings were about attacks inside the US and that tenet and bush had something to hide when they said they did not discuss these threats



















































now i hate to cherry pick but you asked me for quotes related to what i put in my post, what you really should have done was read it yourself and see if you agreed

in my summary, there were very few warnings of domestic attacks and none of them mentioned specifics and none could be corroborated as having enough evidence

most of the intel related to AQ attacks overseas and operations were launched to try and head this off

even if there had been enough intel on attacks within the US it seemed that the agencies were not prepared because no-one thought it would happen, arrogance and incompetance but nothing to say that warnings were deliberately ignored so that the attacks could go ahead which is your contention
1. Watch (for doing nothing x40)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zK-te3Y0m5A

2. I never claimed the warnings were all about attacks inside the US. I said inside the US and on US interests. Very clearly. Let's look at some of what your quotes say, in any case:

he thought there were terrorist cells within the United States, including al Qaeda.

Bin Ladin supporters were planning an attack in the United States using "high explosives.

report about a cell in Canada that an anonymous caller had claimed might be planning an attack against the United States

these briefings discussed general threats to attack America and American interests

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, that he was recruiting people to travel to the United States to meet with colleagues already there so that they might conduct terrorist attacks on Bin Ladin's behalf.

the possibility of attack in the United States could not be discounted

There was a clear disparity in the levels of response to foreign versus domestic threats. Numerous actions were taken overseas to disrupt possible attacks

al Qaeda sleeper cells were likely in the United States

"informed the FBI that an extensive network of al Qida 'sleeper agents' currently exists in the US."

In sum, the domestic agencies never mobilized in response to the threat. They did not have direction, and did not have a plan to institute. The borders were not hardened. Transportation systems were not fortified. Electronic surveillance was not targeted against a domestic threat.State and local law enforcement were not marshaled to augment the FBI's efforts. The public was not warned.

Boy oh boy, I think you just debunked yourself! You shoudl have just let it lie...

If you are happy with this level of terror threat (and this is just scratching the surface) metting zero response from the man sworn and elected to protect you, then you too are a criminal negligent, like Bush.
 
To state that to get 40 days of warnings of an OBL terror threat, and do nothing about it 40 times, is not criminally incompetent... boy, a dank cesspit the OT mind is.

Your confusing the issue here. Bush being criminally incompetent regarding terror warning signs during the summer of 2001 is entirely different than Bush Co. being the mastermind behind those who actually did carry out the attacks.

You seem to have the same wrong assumptions as most of your fellow "truthers", which is that everyone who believes the generally accepted version of 9/11 events must be a Bush loving zombie. I'm an American and an absolute Bush hater. I would support impeachment charges against him and Cheney. As evil as those two are, 9/11 was conducted by 19 Islamic terrorists not under Bush's control.
 
They are conducting 70 OBL related investigations. This means nothing.
WTF!?!?!?!? So the fact that they were doing investigations mean nothing? SO what should they have been doing? You are shown that something was being done and you say that nothing was being. Great logic there. Oh I get it, it's not on YouTube, so it's not fact. Gottya.
 
Once any CT falls back on the 'anybody who disagrees with me is a Bush loving zombie' cop out has lost the argument. It's the Godwin's law of woo wooizm
 
MJD, I've read every single one. All forty of them. Kindly do not make assumptions about what I have read, thank you. And given that I am currently working WITHIN the US Intelligence Community and have had some training in what is and is not actionable intelligence, you might want to defer to my knowledge in that arena, as I highly doubt you are working in the IC.

I reiterate my question: What, in your opinion, should the President have done in regards to these vague, incompletely investigated warnings? Please be specific and detailed, list out your response.
 
MJD, I've read every single one. All forty of them. Kindly do not make assumptions about what I have read, thank you. And given that I am currently working WITHIN the US Intelligence Community and have had some training in what is and is not actionable intelligence, you might want to defer to my knowledge in that arena, as I highly doubt you are working in the IC.

Very well said, but something in my experience with mjd leads me to believe that you might be asking a bit much of him here.
 
I have very little argument to that, Jonny; I suppose I have a well of optimism regarding twoofers that if I just try hard enough, they might actually see the light eventually.

It's why I stay. *shrugs*
 
for people who purport to be "skeptics" its more than a little unusual that so many of them are so willing to support the fables of a lie-based organisation like the US government
 
for people who purport to be "skeptics" its more than a little unusual that so many of them are so willing to support the fables of a lie-based organisation like the US government
Where did we say that we believe what the government says? Then again, the people that purport to "seek the Truth" worship the fables of a lie-based organization like the "Truth Movement." Now, please stay on topic.
 
Where did we say that we believe what the government says? Then again, the people that purport to "seek the Truth" worship the fables of a lie-based organization like the "Truth Movement." Now, please stay on topic.

so you don't believe the government's version of what happened on 9/11?
and you're arguing against the 9/11 truthers too, i'm a little confused then about what you do think happened on 9/11
 
so you don't believe the government's version of what happened on 9/11?
and you're arguing against the 9/11 truthers too, i'm a little confused then about what you do think happened on 9/11
I believe what the facts show. It's just that the facts support the "Official Version" of what happened that day. The "Truth Movement" has yet to show a single piece of "evidence" that can't be easily shown to be false.
 
MJD, I've read every single one. All forty of them. Kindly do not make assumptions about what I have read, thank you. And given that I am currently working WITHIN the US Intelligence Community and have had some training in what is and is not actionable intelligence, you might want to defer to my knowledge in that arena, as I highly doubt you are working in the IC.

EVIL GOVERMENT DISINFO SHILL!
EVIL! EVIL! EVIL!:D
 
so you don't believe the government's version of what happened on 9/11?
and you're arguing against the 9/11 truthers too, i'm a little confused then about what you do think happened on 9/11

19 Islamic Extremists hijacked Four Airliners and Flew them into The WTC in New York,the Pentagon In DC,and a field in Pennslyvania thanks to the courage of the passengers.
I don't beleive everything the Goverment says.I believe them on 9/11 because the fact and evidence supports it.
Whearas the Twoofers have not a leg to stand on.
 
I believe what the facts show. It's just that the facts support the "Official Version" of what happened that day. The "Truth Movement" has yet to show a single piece of "evidence" that can't be easily shown to be false.

hmm.. the facts, huh?

8 of the supposed hijackers named by the govt. turning up alive and well in various parts of the world, no arab names on the flight manifests, no dated CCTV of the supposed hijackers in the relevant airports on the relevant day, 5 of the supposed hijackers having a Pensacola military base as the address on their drivers licenses, the 9/11 commission refusing to ask 70% of the questions put forward by family members etc.. etc..
there are as many holes in the official version as there were in the case for the subsequent invasion of Iraq
 
hmm.. the facts, huh?

8 of the supposed hijackers named by the govt. turning up alive and well in various parts of the world, no arab names on the flight manifests, no dated CCTV of the supposed hijackers in the relevant airports on the relevant day, 5 of the supposed hijackers having a Pensacola military base as the address on their drivers licenses, the 9/11 commission refusing to ask 70% of the questions put forward by family members etc.. etc..
there are as many holes in the official version as there were in the case for the subsequent invasion of Iraq

My isn't all of that very interesting.... Maybe you should start a thread and destroy us all with the power of your new and shocking "facts". It's not like we've ever seen a list like that before...:bunpan
 
My isn't all of that very interesting.... Maybe you should start a thread and destroy us all with the power of your new and shocking "facts". It's not like we've ever seen a list like that before...:bunpan

how unsurprising that you don't address the instances I outlined.
I've been on this forum just two days and have never in my life seen so many people imprisoned by dogma, and most of them don't seem to realise it.
 

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