Merged Texas to arrest international election observers

[theprestige]

Some of the actions. Texas acts like a despot != Texas is despotic.

One thing. Just one thing. Not all things. Not every thing. Not the exact same thing in ever single way.

So you're saying Texas is morally equivalent to North Korea and Iran in one specific thing? Got it. If that's what you want to believe, I'm fine with that.

Just out of curiosity, when you drew that moral equivalence in post 23, what specific action of Texas were you referring to?

I'm guessing this going to go on for pages, right? You will assert over and over what it is I meant and I will assert over and over that you are clearly and obviously wrong.

I don't see why: You believe there's a moral equivalence between North Korea and Texas, and I'm okay with that. We can stop here if you like.

 

[theprestige]

Probably not in the sense of the entire power block in a country being 100% opposed to it one day, then changing their mind to 100% in favour the next day when they learn that america is allowing it. But it may well be a contributing factor that sways some people in government, and there's probably over 100 countries in the world that call themselves democracies but could certainly use supervision in order to verify this. With those countries having elections every 4 years, over a long enough period it may well be the deciding factor on several occasions.

It also just strikes me that it puts the UN in a stronger position to request entry to these countries. If the UN says "if you want a say in UN decisions, or you want aid (or whatever) you best allow us to monitor your elections" then it helps if that other country can't just turn around and say "well, you don't demand that of america, and everyone knows those infidels/capitalist pigdogs/imperial swine are rigging their elections!"

Fair enough. I see your point, and it's pretty sensible (not that you need my endorsement )

One thing I think is interesting is that the US government is actually pretty accommodating in this case. It's not like they've raised any objection to the UN observers. About the worst that has happened is that the Texas State AG has issued a stern warning to the observers regarding state law about observing from a distance of 100 feet or more. This doesn't strike me as much of a weakening of the UN's position with regards to other countries, or as a valid excuse for other countries rejecting UN election observers (it might, however, be a valid excuse for some election districts in other countries issuing stern warnings to UN observers about staying within the law).

Another thing I think is interesting is that "but the US gets special treatment" doesn't always work as an excuse. The UNSC, for example, is a pretty exclusive club, and most UN member nations are expected to abide by the rules and conventions of the organization, even though they will never have a vote (and rarely even a voice) on the UNSC.

 

[RandFan]

So you're saying Texas is morally equivalent to North Korea and Iran in one specific thing? Got it. If that's what you want to believe, I'm fine with that.

I'm saying they are behaving like Iran and North Korea as it relates to working with the UN. Threatening arrests is what despots do.

I don't see why: You believe there's a moral equivalence between North Korea and Texas, and I'm okay with that. We can stop here if you like.

Just as I said. You are going to go on for pages telling me what I meant and I'm going to go on telling you A.) What I said. B.) What I meant.

• I never used the word "moral equivalence". That's your argument by assertion.
• I did not mean that they are "morally equivalent".
• I have only meant that Texas is acting like a despot in this one action.
• I'm claiming that it's A.) unnecessary. B.) Arrogant. C.) A giant red flag.

So keep making false claims about what I said. Keep telling me what I meant. And we can go on for pages. You are wrong.

 

[RandFan]

About the worst that has happened is that the Texas State AG has issued a stern warning to the observers regarding state law about observing from a distance of 100 feet or more.

• An unnecessary and absolutely unaccommodating requirement.
• Threatening arrest is unnecessary and absolutely unaccommodating.
• Sets up a means to excuse abusive behavior by blaming the UN inspectors.
• It's an intimidation tactic common of despots.

The UN has no history of interfering with elections so all of this bluster is troubling. If Texas is confident of their ability to ensure fair elections they have nothing to worry about.

 

[RandFan]

I would seriously like an answer to this question.

If we have faith in our institutions, then why not have transparency?

If the broad light of day could be let in upon men’s actions, it would purify them as the sun disinfects. --Brandeis

BTW: Threatening arrest and requiring inspectors to stay 100 feet away doesn't demonstrate transparency.

 

[CORed]

Now we need to morph that meme into "UN Goons there to arrest Republican voters" and we'll have the polls to ourselves!

Maybe. Then again, maybe the teatards will decide that it's time for a "second amendment solution" and start shooting anybody they think might be a UN goon.

 

[mikedenk]

Actually sounds like a pretty good idea to let UN observers into the solid democracies to set a good example of transparency. I can see why other countries would object to it if they were being told they had to have observers when countries like america or britain or france or wherever have decided to exempt themselves.

Although I'm always down for some UN bashing, I agree with this.

 

[Puppycow]

Texas sparks international row with election observers

Texas authorities have threatened to arrest international election observers, prompting a furious response from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE).

“The threat of criminal sanctions against [international] observers is unacceptable,” Janez Lenarčič, the Director of the OSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR), said in a statement. “The United States, like all countries in the OSCE, has an obligation to invite ODIHR observers to observe its elections.”

Lawmakers from the group of 56 European and Central Asian nations have been observing U.S. elections since 2002, without incident. Their presence has become a flashpoint this year, however, as Republicans accuse Democrats of voter fraud while Democrats counter that GOP-inspired voter ID laws aim to disenfranchise minority voters.

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott further fueled the controversy on Tuesday when he sent a letter to the OSCE warning the organization that its representatives “are not authorized by Texas law to enter a polling place” and that it “may be a criminal offense for OSCE’s representatives to maintain a presence within 100 feet of a polling place's entrance.”

 

[SkepticalDrew]

So I'm assuming they are going to arrest the True to Vote people as well? I'm all for no one but county officials and voters being at the polls.

The stupid and the hypocrisy both burn.

 

[theprestige]

I'm confused. Were the observers planning on entering within 100 feet of a polling place, in contravention of Texas law?

 

[Jim_MDP]

I'm confused. Were the observers planning on entering within 100 feet of a polling place, in contravention of Texas law?

I think they have to. I'm not sure, but I think their gig is to hang with the voting location operators and observe the procedures. That's it. Scary huh?

 

[12AX7]

Well here's the image they're trying to portray:

[qimg]http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q195/strido527/troops_zpscb72159b.jpg[/qimg]

OOH!! Scary! Body armor and all. Its such an outrage these are going to be at polling places in the USofA?!!? They'll have to pry my chads from my cold, dead hands, those bastards!!!!!

One of the folks on the thread was kind enough to provide a link, a source. First time for everything I guess.

Here it is from the horses mouth. Looks like its been going on for 10 years. And here's a photo of the acutal massively intimidating and dangerous UN police force, sent to the US to club baby seals and take away our freedoms:

[qimg]http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q195/strido527/reality_zps738bb4c9.jpg[/qimg]

...and these idiots might just win.

These people believe every word of it.

 

[Cylinder]

"The stupid" here is the people objecting to the Txas AG's position. Since the observers are not registered with the state as election workers or voters, they are not allowed inside the polling place. That is a very important protection provided to the voters. Having a blue hat does nothing to change that. Agreements by the federal government changes none of that as well.

In the 2008 election, I served as a poll watcher for my local party the Saturday before the election. The County Judge (in AR that's like the mayor for the county) came by with pizzas and drinks for everyone and wanted to shakes some hands, thank us for our work, etc... A nice elderly lady pointed out that he wasn't allowed in the polling place - basically kicking the judge out of his own courthouse. She had her pocket guide of election statutes and was pretty firm. We had to huddle together on both sides and decided that he could provide the food for the facility but wasn't allowed to linger around to talk to the workers, etc...

If the observers want to work polls, there is a process that has to be followed. In Arkansas, for instance, it allows for equal representation by each major party (having received x% of votes in the last election, IIRC) and the poll workers have to be registered beforehand.

In Arkansas, you cannot assemble or linger within 100 yards of the polling place and you cannot wear, distribute, discuss or display electioneering materials within that perimeter. There always seems to be one or two who are escorted out of the polling place because they think they can stand in line and start talking smack about this candidate or that.

 

[UTLonghorn]

"We demand transparency in other countries elections, but gosh darnit it if we're gonna let those commie election monitors come in and tell us what to do!"

- stereotypical gun toting southerner (I'm Texan so I can stereotype my fellow kind )

 

[theprestige]

I think they have to. I'm not sure, but I think their gig is to hang with the voting location operators and observe the procedures. That's it. Scary huh?

I don't think it's scary. But if it's against the law, they probably shouldn't do it (and probably shouldn't act all fake-butthurt about being warned not to do it).

"We demand transparency in other countries elections, but gosh darnit it if we're gonna let those commie election monitors come in and tell us what to do!"

- stereotypical gun toting southerner (I'm Texan so I can stereotype my fellow kind )

Why stereotype? It's not like nobody knows what the Texas AG actually said. It's not like you can't just judge the merits of what he actually said.

 

[UTLonghorn]

I don't think it's scary. But if it's against the law, they probably shouldn't do it (and probably shouldn't act all fake-butthurt about being warned not to do it).




Why stereotype? It's not like nobody knows what the Texas AG actually said. It's not like you can't just judge the merits of what he actually said.

aww I'm just messing around.

 

[Travis]

Why is it that morons on the internet are always scared about the UN when the UN is about as threatening as a bunch of puppies dying of nitrogen narcosis?

 

[Travis]

I find it amusing that people think Texas would be totally fine with these people being there even if they were officially registered as election workers.

Texas wants to make sure only Republicans True Americans get elected and they aren't going to let something like democracy get in the way.

 

[Puppycow]

"The stupid" here is the people objecting to the Txas AG's position.

Are you aware that the US sends observers to observe elections in other countries? This is just the same thing. They are only there to observe, not to interfere or influence the process. The Texas AG's letter accuses them of trying to "influence or interfere with the election process".

 

[Virus]

"We demand transparency in other countries elections, but gosh darnit it if we're gonna let those commie election monitors come in and tell us what to do!"

- stereotypical gun toting southerner (I'm Texan so I can stereotype my fellow kind )

One of the monitors is actually a Socialist.

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/10/25/un-election-monitor-in-texas-is-a-danish-socialist/