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Texas Tea

Ziggurat said:
I told you why they charge different rates. I never claimed or suggested that there was anything wrong with them charging different rates. So why did you ascribe to me a position I never expressed? Why did YOU evade that question?
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So that means the politics in Texas aren't 'bad', and people agree with them?

I chose not to engage you on the 'demand is the only factor' (it isn't), or about how U-haul isn't the only company, etc. No, that's all irrelevant. How does that tie into the complaint in the op? If I went to a popular beach and complained that the flies were terrible, would a valid response be to point out that the water salesman is selling at more than a dollar a bottle?

Why does Chewbacca live on Endor?
 
tyr_13 said:
So that means the politics in Texas aren't 'bad', and people agree with them?
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I already answered your question, starting with post #30. You may be interested in following up with posts 32, 35, and 37, but there's no point in answering your question again if you can't even address the answer I gave the first time.

If I went to a popular beach and complained that the flies were terrible, would a valid response be to point out that the water salesman is selling at more than a dollar a bottle?
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The valid response would be that you still chose to go to the beach.
 
Ziggurat said:
I already answered your question, starting with post #30. You may be interested in following up with posts 32, 35, and 37, but there's no point in answering your question again if you can't even address the answer I gave the first time.
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What answer? It still has nothing to do with the op's complaints. If you agree that it doesn't actually address what was said in the op, as a generous reading of your posts would say, then you agree that you simply are posting red herrings.



The valid response would be that you still chose to go to the beach.
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Which doesn't mean that the flies aren't bad.
 
tyr_13 said:
What answer? It still has nothing to do with the op's complaints.
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It's got a lot to do with the OP's complaint. I already explained why.

Which doesn't mean that the flies aren't bad.
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It means that they aren't bad enough to keep you from going to the beach.
 
AlBell said:
Please explain why you believe that's the 'actual issue at hand'. It isn't.
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So, an issue raised falsely, presented with an absurd argument, by another person, to which I replied in context, is not the "issue at hand"?

That is obviously false and an attempt to misrepresent context.
 
Ziggurat said:
It's got a lot to do with the OP's complaint. I already explained why.
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Which was stretching. You claim it has a lot to do with it, but really it doesn't. You said.

It means that people think Texas is a good place to live. Whether or not they like Texas politics, it's pretty clear that they don't share Tricky's perspective.
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This isn't actually a valid conclusion to draw from the 'data' you presented, and doesn't address Tricky's complaints in the least. Remember that Tricky seems to argue that the politics are bad and are getting worse. In fact that they're going to get a lot worse. So the politics might not be keeping people away right now, but that doesn't mean the politics aren't a problem, that they aren't getting worse, or that they don't share Tricky's perspective. Tricky shares his perspective and lives in Texas. It's absurd to claim that because someone lives in or moves to Texas they must not share his perspective therefore.



It means that they aren't bad enough to keep you from going to the beach.
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The flies are getting worse, but that's not actually a problem because people are still here? It's still a red herring combined with a type of appeal to worse problems. Just because it isn't enough to make one leave or stay away, doesn't invalidate or lessen the criticism.
 
tyr_13 said:
Which was stretching. You claim it has a lot to do with it, but really it doesn't. You said.



This isn't actually a valid conclusion to draw from the 'data' you presented, and doesn't address Tricky's complaints in the least. Remember that Tricky seems to argue that the politics are bad and are getting worse. In fact that they're going to get a lot worse. So the politics might not be keeping people away right now, but that doesn't mean the politics aren't a problem, that they aren't getting worse, or that they don't share Tricky's perspective. Tricky shares his perspective and lives in Texas. It's absurd to claim that because someone lives in or moves to Texas they must not share his perspective therefore.





The flies are getting worse, but that's not actually a problem because people are still here? It's still a red herring combined with a type of appeal to worse problems. Just because it isn't enough to make one leave or stay away, doesn't invalidate or lessen the criticism.
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Bah. You're making things up in an imaginary world, not even in the real world. We've got 60,000 some jobs expected to need to be filled just in the fracking operations in Eagle Ford in South Texas in the next two years.

That's an average of 80k per man.

Pop all those internet word soap bubbles you want, people are moving here every day.
 
tyr_13 said:
This isn't actually a valid conclusion to draw from the 'data' you presented
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Yes it is. When people think somewhere is a bad place to live, they leave. We see that not only within the US, but across the globe. That's why one could conclude (correctly) that communism was worse than capitalism without needing to know much at all except which system had to kill people to keep them from leaving.

and doesn't address Tricky's complaints in the least.
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Sure it does. Tricky is worried about Texas, and what politics there will mean for the state. But what exactly do those politics mean? Are you claiming that politics will start driving people out of Texas? Because until that happens (as it already has in Detroit, for example), well, the politics really aren't that bad. Particularly relative to the rest of the country.
 
theprestige said:
I call it people being paid to do useful work, and people earning their pay by doing useful work. Why? Do you call it a government handout?
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AlBell appears to be the one implying it is a handout. At least, he did not respond directly to my question on that point. My position on the matter would be the same as yours.
 
Ziggurat - I've asked to have the whole discussion about why people emigrate be split off to a more suitable forum.

I would be interested in any comments you have about the political contest referred to in the OP, if you have any.
 
mhaze said:
Bah. You're making things up in an imaginary world, not even in the real world. We've got 60,000 some jobs expected to need to be filled just in the fracking operations in Eagle Ford in South Texas in the next two years.

That's an average of 80k per man.

Pop all those internet word soap bubbles you want, people are moving here every day.
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That doesn't address anything I said. Point out what I 'made up'.

Ziggurat said:
Yes it is. When people think somewhere is a bad place to live, they leave. We see that not only within the US, but across the globe. That's why one could conclude (correctly) that communism was worse than capitalism without needing to know much at all except which system had to kill people to keep them from leaving.
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Appeal to worse problems, a fallacy. Just because something isn't bad enough doesn't mean some subset of that can't be bad and a problem worth addressing, and getting worse. 'People leaving' isn't the only possible adverse effect from a problem. You also make the jump from 'politics being bad and suggesting doing bad things' to, 'bad place to live'. Goalpost moving.

So why does Chewbacca live on Endor?



Sure it does. Tricky is worried about Texas, and what politics there will mean for the state. But what exactly do those politics mean? Are you claiming that politics will start driving people out of Texas? Because until that happens (as it already has in Detroit, for example), well, the politics really aren't that bad. Particularly relative to the rest of the country.
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Appeal to worst problems. Really, this is a foolish line of reasoning on multiple levels. 'This hasn't brought about negative enough consequences yet, so it's not bad enough to discuss.' That's basically what you're saying to avoid discussing any of the actual politics and policies complained about in the OP. That you have to resort to Detroit as an example might tell you how far into the 'appeal to worse problems' line of reasoning you are in.
 
Corsair 115 said:
AlBell appears to be the one implying it is a handout.
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Really? I don't see him implying anything of the kind. Can you point out exactly where he appears to do so?

At least, he did not respond directly to my question on that point.
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Well, to be fair, it's kind of a stupid question. It kind of looks like you're more interested in playing silly buggers over an imaginary difference of opinion, than in having a serious discussion. So it's understandable if he prefers to ignore the question rather than answer it.

My position on the matter would be the same as yours.
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And as far as I can tell, there's no evidence it's any different from Al's position. Do you have any reason to believe that AlBell can't tell the difference between a handout and a job? If not, why ask the question?
 
tyr_13 said:
That doesn't address anything I said. Point out what I 'made up'.
.....
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No, I admit that. I didn't address the nonsense about "politics are getting worse" because it was clearly just a statement by another to the effect that "elections are not going for my candidate".

I don't think people move because of politics of one sort or another, in most cases. They may move because of the EFFECTS of those such as more or fewer jobs or opportunities, more or less of a pro-business attitude, more or less taxes, presence or absence of state taxes. A lot of the people moving to Texas are bent to the liberal side politically.

But just give us some time, we'll educatify them.
 
Texas is about to elect a Tea Party senator? No sweat -- my state has a socialist senator; the two of them will just cancel each other out. You're welcome.
 
Ziggurat said:
I never claimed it was. But it's not keeping people away, and it's not driving them out.
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We don't really know that. We just know that whatever effect it has is minor and is overshadowed by other drivers. It could very well be that the growth would be greater if Texas wasn't so supportive of Tea Party ideals (and also possible that it would be lesser).

That is the great challenge with social science - isolating the variables to truly test a hypothesis.

As an example, I can take myself personally. While I do not really like what I hear about the politics of Texas, that is not what is preventing me from moving to Houston. I would not want to live anywhere on the gulf coast because it it is just too damn humid for my tastes (I can barely stand the humidity here in Indiana). Yet all that being said, if I could earn significantly more there than I could here, I would still consider it. However, I would also take a pay cut to move back to Nevada or California, some nice, dry states
 
theprestige said:
Really? I don't see him implying anything of the kind. Can you point out exactly where he appears to do so?
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Well, I did, hence my question, asked for clarification so as to get a better handle on this view. That is sort of the point of a dialogue, isn't it, when there are perhaps differences or uncertainties on certain items?


theprestige said:
Well, to be fair, it's kind of a stupid question. It kind of looks like you're more interested in playing silly buggers over an imaginary difference of opinion, than in having a serious discussion.
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AlBell's the one who brought up the idea of jobs over handouts. It is not reasonable to ask exactly what that means? Hence my question, which provided an example of the government providing jobs. It's not my fault if the comment to which I responded was phrased in a way that seemed to me to be vague and imprecise.
 
Stellafane said:
Texas is about to elect a Tea Party senator? No sweat -- my state has a socialist senator; the two of them will just cancel each other out. You're welcome.
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Thanks. Is your socialist senator having fun watching all those UHauls driving out of his state?
 
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