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Texas: Secede!!

The solution is really a more relaxed federalism with greater powers for the states on social policy.

The only problem is you have a federal charter of rights and a federal supreme court that makes binding decisions - this will always engender conflict as decisions come down on thorny issues like abortion, gay rights, the ten commandments in public buildings etc.
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I'm not sure how you square that circle really.

Part of me thinks though that some form of secession may be the best thing - the United States of Canada/Jesusland joke that makes the rounds is funny but sometimes I wonder whether we'd all be better off in such a scenario.
 
I think that if North America were to be spit up, it would probably be composed of three main areas; the traditional North, including parts of Eastern and Central Canada, the South and parts of the Midwest(this would be Bibleland), and the West, incuding parts of Western Canada.
 
I am now officially saying A PLague On Both Your Houses" in the whole Religion/Secularism debate. Sadly, there is too much intolerence and hatred on both sides and it's drowning out the reasonable middle.
I am in favor of seperation of CHurch and State and hate the Fundies attemtps to undermine that, , but don't want to engage in any great crusade against Religon as the source of all evil either.
 
Euromutt said:
No, but Texas does have a disproportionate influence on the selection of K-12 textbooks, and without Texas, the C/IDers in the other states would have a much harder time pushing their agenda onto the public education system.
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Don't worry. Texas has once again allowed the teaching of science in their science books.
 
I live in Texas... unfortunately.

On the good side, the economy here is good, and they favor a smaller government.

On the bad side, there's horrendous humidity (esp in the SE), heat, fireants and mosquitos. Their seasons are Spring, Summer, Hell, Summer, Fall. There's all the rednecks, country music, and they're well within the bible belt.
 
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Yes, for the time being...
IMax once opted not to show a film on dinosaurs here because they didn't want to deal with a bunch of idiots saying "whudya mean millions of years ago?". And there's also a creationist museum near a dinosaur state park with dino footprints etc that shows "proof" that dinos and humans lived together.

I don't know how long this odd period of reason will last. It's like an ice cube floating unphased in a pot of boiling water. Like Nasa here with engineers who can send people to the moon, who at the same time inexplicably doubt the big bang. Don't ask me... I can't explain it. I'm glad their teaching science again in science class though - if only temporarily.
 
DrBaltar said:
Don't worry. Texas has once again allowed the teaching of science in their science books.
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Not quite...

Consequences of the flawed standards in Texas?
Since the March 2009 decision of the Texas state board of education to adopt a set of flawed state science standards, media coverage has increasingly emphasized the possible consequences. As NCSE previously reported, although creationists on the board were unsuccessful in inserting the controversial "strengths and weaknesses" language from the old set of standards, they proposed a flurry of synonyms — such as "sufficiency or insufficiency" and "supportive and not supportive" — and eventually prevailed with a requirement that students examine "all sides of scientific evidence." Additionally, the board voted to add or amend various standards in a way that encourages the presentation of creationist claims about the complexity of the cell, the completeness of the fossil record, and the age of the universe. The result, NCSE's executive director Eugenie C. Scott commented, was "a triumph of ideology and politics over science."
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I know this is painfully obvious, but if texas left, with all of it's electoral votes.. that would make presidential elections considerably tougher for republicans.

I wonder if bible belters from other states would move there, if it seceded. That would be following the "if you don't like it, get out" to the T.

I'd be ok with losing Texas as a comprimise. The US could split up one of the Dakotas so we'd still have 50 states.. Or just make a North California and South California? Maybe we should do it. Wouldn't it be nice if we both just had our own happy countries instead of all of this endless, partisan, infighting between two extremes?
 
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Looks as if Gov. Perry is playing that time-honored tactic of CYA :rolleyes:

Perry says secession comment misinterpreted
Texas Gov. Rick Perry is dialing back his earlier remark that seemed to suggest he was open to secession, telling reporters Thursday his state is "part of a great union."

"I was kinda thinking that, maybe the same people who hadn't been reading the constitution right were reading that article and they got the wrong impression about what I said," he told reporters as in the Texas State House.

"Clearly, I stated that we have a great union. And Texas is part of a great union. I see no reason for that to change. I think that may not be the exact quote, but that is, in essence what I said," he added. ...
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What a tool.
 
btw, what Perry said was:
Perry said:
Texas is a unique place. When we came into the union in 1845, one of the issues was that we would be able to leave if we decided to do that. My hope is that America and Washington in particular pays attention. We've got a great union. There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, who knows what may come of that.
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He said this to a reporter in response to the angry mob at one of the Tea-parties who were shouting 'suceeed!'. The point of the Tea-parties was to protest all this big government spending that went up by orders of magnitude since Jan 20th that will certainly lead to higher taxes, inflation, higher unemployment, and entitlement programs that will continue be a burden on the economy. On the same day, Perry is also protesting the federal government trying to interfere in state affairs. The 10th amendment protects against this. If you don't stand up to attempts by the federal government to do so, then states will eventually lose the 10th amendment protection. All his posturing is only to drive the point home to Washington that they're stepping over the line.

As he says, there's no reason to talk about secession at this point. The state and the government sometimes have to remind each other where the line is. But if the federal government continues to violate the constitution in terms of states rights, then why wouldn't the subject of secession come up?
 
MattusMaximus said:
Not quite...

Consequences of the flawed standards in Texas?
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Well *&!%^#!!! So much for that.

If they are going to insist on this strengths and weaknesses stuff, then I would LOVE to see that standard applied to ID. Bring it on. For some reason, they only want to apply made up weaknesses to mainstream science though, and not ID.

Gangularis said:
Maybe we should do it. Wouldn't it be nice if we both just had our own happy countries instead of all of this endless, partisan, infighting between two extremes?
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It would be nice, except for one thing. The two parties are not logically consistent. So in each new half of America, the reigning party would again be bickering.

i.e. Democratic America is about social programs, helping the little guy, accepting our differences, make love not war etc.... These are more like Christian values. The Republican America is all about small government, which means they should keep their 'Religious Right' noses out of the day to day lives of its citizens.
 
MattusMaximus said:
Looks as if Gov. Perry is playing that time-honored tactic of CYA :rolleyes:

Perry says secession comment misinterpreted
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But his comments were misinterpreted. That's what republicans do with what democrats say, and what democrats do with what republicans say. Is this news to you?

In the article you reference, it says "Texas Gov. Rick Perry is dialing back his earlier remark that seemed to suggest he was open to secession."

How does "There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it." translate to "his earlier remark that seemed to suggest he was open to secession"? It doesn't. That is a misinterpretation.

He only brought up secession because a tea-party crowd was yelling for secession. Of course, in liberal news sources, his specific opinion on secession was downplayed and the context of why it was brought up at all was not mentioned. The focus of the media was on him saying it would be considered in the hypothetical case of the government continuing to thumb their nose at the American people. The government can only get away with what it's been doing recently until the next election. Then it will be forced to once again listen to the American people.
 
Footprints in the Sand

One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the state of Texas. Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.

In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand. Sometimes there were two sets of footprints, other times there was only one.

This bothered me because I noticed that during the low periods of my country, when we was suffering from anguish, sorrow or defeat, I could see only one set of footprints, so I said to the state of Texas,

"You promised me Texas, that if we joined with you, you would walk with me always. But I have noticed that during the most trying periods of the country there has only been one set of footprints in the sand. Why, when the country needed you the most, have you not been there for us?

The state of Texas replied, "The years when you have seen only one set of footprints, my friends, is when I carried you"

:D
 
DrBaltar said:
It would be nice, except for one thing. The two parties are not logically consistent. So in each new half of America, the reigning party would again be bickering.

i.e. Democratic America is about social programs, helping the little guy, accepting our differences, make love not war etc.... These are more like Christian values. The Republican America is all about small government, which means they should keep their 'Religious Right' noses out of the day to day lives of its citizens.
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Hence the reason I used the terminology "two extremes".
 
Governor Perry has seceded from Office Depot:
The Texas House Friday voted to drain most of GOP Gov. Rick Perry’s office budget and instead spend the money on community mental health crisis services and veterans’ services.

The move, which came during House debate on a $178.4 billion proposal for the two-year period starting Sept. 1, immediately drew a reference to Perry’s recent comments about Texas’ ability to secede from the union. The comments have drawn national attention and some lawmakers’ ire.

“Two days after the governor threatens secession, the House zeroes out his budget,” said Rep. Richard Raymond, D-Laredo, House Appropriations Committee vice chairman.

...The House action came a day after the Senate rebuffed Perry’s wishes on another matter, by voting for legislation that would allow Texas to take more than half a billion dollars in economic stimulus funds for unemployment benefits. Perry opposes program changes that Texas would have to make to get the money.
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Brainster said:
The folks talking about secession today are every bit as deluded as the folks who were talking about dividing the top part of North America into the United States of Canada and Jesusland.
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The difference was the "jesusland" thing was a wacky internet image somebody made as a joke.

This is the freaking Governor of the state saying this.

Holy cow the GOP has left me so far behind I can't even see their dust cloud. Guys? Guys? I want somebody who'll reign in government but I'm not following you to Crazytown.

Oh, well, maybe sanity will have restored itself in the party by 2020 or so.
 
David Wong said:
The difference was the "jesusland" thing was a wacky internet image somebody made as a joke.

This is the freaking Governor of the state saying this.

Holy cow the GOP has left me so far behind I can't even see their dust cloud. Guys? Guys? I want somebody who'll reign in government but I'm not following you to Crazytown.

Oh, well, maybe sanity will have restored itself in the party by 2020 or so.
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It is certainly fair to point out that Perry's musings take it to a far different level. As it happened, my cousin and I listened to Perry's rant the night before (when secession was not specifically mentioned), and while I love the Tenth Amendment argument, I was appalled at the obvious "or else" way he phrased it.

The GOP is traveling down the wrong road right now. As it is, I'm barely in the party myself, having made the mistake of supporting McCain early; the crunchy cons have not forgiven us for nominating the only guy who had any chance to win.
 
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