Cont: Texas bans abortion. Part 2

Well, health care workers, as mandatory reporters, are required to report certain kinds of illnesses and injuries: indications of child abuse, for example, or gunshot wounds or some contagious diseases. If some nurse thinks abortion is murder, I guess she felt justified in calling the cops. But the cops should have said "No crime here" and moved on. As the woman was charged and locked up, I suspect she has a false arrest suit brewing against them.

I know that some things must be reported. But whether or not a nurse (or whomever it was) personally thinks/believes abortion is murder is not one of them since that is not the law in Texas. Therefore, it's quite likely a HIPAA law was violated.
 
Unless I’m mixed up, this was posted on Twitter, indicating all charges are being dropped.

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Yeah, I thought this might happen:


Calls for HIPAA Lawsuit Follow Dismissal of Charges Against Lizelle Herrera


Herrera was arrested after she had a miscarriage and divulged some information to hospital staff, who went on to report her to the police—leading critics of Texas' abortion policies to argue the arrest stemmed from a HIPAA violation.

Attorney and legal expert Tristan Snell wrote: "Sure sounds like Lizelle Herrera should consider suing the bejesus out of: — the hospital and its staff, for HIPAA violations and possibly for malicious prosecution — the sheriff's office and its staff, for false imprisonment and 42 USC 1983 federal civil rights claims."

Others, however, pointed out that the issue could be legally complicated. Texas has some of the strictest anti-abortion laws in the Untied States, banning most abortions, and HIPAA carves out some exceptions for reporting to law enforcement.

One of those exceptions includes "when a covered entity believes that protected health information is evidence of a crime that occurred on its premises," according to the Department of Health & Human Services (HHS).

Trouble with this one is that it likely didn't happen on the hospital's premises nor was is a crime.
 
Unless I’m mixed up, this was posted on Twitter, indicating all charges are being dropped.

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51995990496_0680118d77_z.jpg[/qimg]

I notice the pre-emptive strike of claiming that the "Starr County Sheriff's Department did their duty in investigating" this matter. However, investigating and ARRESTING Ms. Herrera for MURDER are two different things. Their investigation, if done competently, would have shown she did not commit a crime under TX law.
 
If this version is correct (inducing her own abortion by herself and getting reported by hospital staff), I can't see how this is not gross medical malpractice on the part of the providers. Specifically whoever did this if it was an individual decision should never work in healthcare again; or if it was an institutional decision heads should roll there.

Going to the hospital for medical treatment and having this outcome should be criminal. This will have consequences. People will die when they begin to get the idea that you need to avoid hospitals lest you be charged with murder.

Sounds like a HIPAA violation to me. $250,000 fine for revealing private medical information.
 
Sounds like a HIPAA violation to me. $250,000 fine for revealing private medical information.

Not saying it shouldn’t be, but I’m pretty sure I know of at least one state where Emergency Rooms are required to report gunshot wounds to the police. If that’s the case, it appears there may be exceptions to HIPAA for suspected criminal activity.

Edited to add: Took about a minute to come up with this HIPPA exclusion:

Law Enforcement Purposes. Covered entities may disclose protected health information to law enforcement officials for law enforcement purposes under the following six circumstances, and subject to specified conditions: (1) as required by law (including court orders, court-ordered warrants, subpoenas) and administrative requests; (2) to identify or locate a suspect, fugitive, material witness, or missing person; (3) in response to a law enforcement official’s request for information about a victim or suspected victim of a crime; (4) to alert law enforcement of a person’s death, if the covered entity suspects that criminal activity caused the death; (5) when a covered entity believes that protected health information is evidence of a crime that occurred on its premises; and (6) by a covered health care provider in a medical emergency not occurring on its premises, when necessary to inform law enforcement about the commission and nature of a crime, the location of the crime or crime victims, and the perpetrator of the crime.”
 
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You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride.

Obviously imprisoning these women as murderers is the preferred consequence for these right wing freaks, but dragging women who get abortions through the public square on trumped up charges is not a bad consolation prize.

The process is a punishment in itself, even if it doesn't result in any conviction.
 
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You can beat the wrap, but you can't beat the ride.

Obviously imprisoning these women as murderers is the preferred consequence for these right wing freaks, but dragging women who get abortions through the public square on trumped up charges is not a bad consolation prize.

“Rap”

But a few multimillion dollar lawsuits against municipalities for false arrest might tamp down their enthusiasm for such Handmaid’s Tale tactics.
 
“Rap”

But a few multimillion dollar lawsuits against municipalities for false arrest might tamp down their enthusiasm for such Handmaid’s Tale tactics.

There isn't a great track record of this working. Cities often pay out the lawsuits and keep chugging along with the same illegal policing strategies.
 
There isn't a great track record of this working. Cities often pay out the lawsuits and keep chugging along with the same illegal policing strategies.

That is just because the cities really don't have control over what the police department decides to do. So if some cops want to keep doing that, the city is in for a huge bill.
 
There isn't a great track record of this working. Cities often pay out the lawsuits and keep chugging along with the same illegal policing strategies.

Or they successfully claim sovereign immunity. Virginia Beach, VA successfully got away with a case where a garbage truck driver joyriding on the beach ran over someone and killed him. They can kill whoever they want if they do it in a city truck.
 
Again "Hey guys we just learned that the rules of man aren't the laws of physics and at the end of the day you can get away with anything until somebody stops you" is something the Right is super-comfortable with pushing the envelope more and more on.

That's why so much of what they do has the obvious chip on the shoulder "Dare you do something about it wuss" message to it.
 
Again "Hey guys we just learned that the rules of man aren't the laws of physics and at the end of the day you can get away with anything until somebody stops you" is something the Right is super-comfortable with pushing the envelope more and more on.

That's why so much of what they do has the obvious chip on the shoulder "Dare you do something about it wuss" message to it.

It's the grim reality that the right wing in this country has a much more reasonable understanding of how power is actually wielded. Laws ain't real.

How many times can this same kind of story keep happening before liberals wise up I don't know.
 
It's the grim reality that the right wing in this country has a much more reasonable understanding of how power is actually wielded. Laws ain't real.

How many times can this same kind of story keep happening before liberals wise up I don't know.

"Liberals" wised up a long time ago. Unfortunately, the Democratic party is run by cargo-cult "Moderates".
 
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-americans-can-expect-if-abortion-pills-become-their-only-safe-option/


As access to in-person abortion dwindles, medication abortion is more available than it’s ever been. For a long time, the FDA’s regulations said that medication abortion needed to be provided in-person, in a medical setting, but after the rules changed — temporarily at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic and then permanently a few months ago — a crop of abortion-focused telehealth companies sprang up with the goal of making the process as seamless as possible. As a result, it’s now possible to get an abortion in more than 20 states without ever setting foot in a clinic. That also means it’s cheaper.


Anti-abortion lawmakers have realized this and are trying to crack down on the mail distribution of abortion pills in several states. A Supreme Court decision to allow states to ban first-trimester abortion would likely increase those attempts to control supply, since it’s a big loophole: Even if abortion is illegal, someone could order abortion pills from a telehealth company in a state where it’s legal and mail them to a person in a state where it’s not, or order pills from an online pharmacy. Access to abortion pills could undermine the coming wave of abortion bans, and everyone knows it.


[snip]


Pain, as Colwill pointed out, doesn’t necessarily indicate something is unsafe, even though everyone wants to avoid it. But if abortion is banned, people could be taking abortion pills without much medical guidance, and the consequences could be more dire. Several states, including Oklahoma and South Carolina, already have laws on the books that can be used to prosecute people who self-manage abortion. Mary Ziegler, a professor at Florida State University College of Law who studies abortion law, said that because states will find it hard to enforce abortion bans as long as pills can be mailed in discreet packages, more anti-abortion state lawmakers might consider making it a crime to use abortion pills or help someone obtain them.


If that happens, people could end up being prosecuted if they use abortion medications in a state where it's illegal, particularly if they end up going to the hospital. Physically, there's no way for medical professionals to be able to tell the difference between a pregnancy loss induced by abortion drugs and one that happened as part of a miscarriage, Grossman said. And the only way the difference would matter medically is if the patient had induced their abortion with some other substance like an herb concoction, rather than tested, FDA-approved meds.
 
Let's look on the bright side of this: back alley abortionists will have a resurgence. The GOP bringing jobs back!
 
Let's look on the bright side of this: back alley abortionists will have a resurgence. The GOP bringing jobs back!

I guess if people are performing illegal abortions, we must hold the GOP solely responsible...not the scumbags performing the procedures.

Typical. If a woman goes to the ER after a coat hanger abortion, someone will of course place the blame squarely on a conservative lawmaker.
 
It's the grim reality that the right wing in this country has a much more reasonable understanding of how power is actually wielded. Laws ain't real.

How many times can this same kind of story keep happening before liberals wise up I don't know.
While "liberal" has many meanings, as do many things, I must remark that at least in the "right vs. left" area not all left leaners are ignorant of that idea.

Remember, for example, Tipper Gore's campaign against explicit song lyrics, which I seem to recall resulted in a move by retail chains to self-regulate in order to avoid legal issues. It may not have lasted, and of course it depends on how much money you stand to lose, but sometimes it's easier to comply than to fight, even if you win.

Many years ago, I also heard a "Fresh Air" interview with Andrea Dworkin, who, as some might remember, was of the opinion that "pornograpy equals rape" and as such, a great advocate of the transitive property of evil: that if pornography equals rape, then being an agent of its production equals it, and if that, then being an agent of its distribution equals it, and if so, being involved in its sale equals it....and thus, quite openly, she suggested that the way to end the evil of pornography was to file arrest charges against the proprietors of convenience stores and the drivers of delivery trucks for their complicity in rape. e.t.a. This being her response to the fact that cases against the producers of what she considered equal to rape had won their cases when prosecuted. This of course would be obviously a nuisance charge, winnable at any level by the defendants, but she rightly supposed that if done, it would prove so expensive (likely including the deportation of immigrant convenience-store clerks) that it would force self-regulation of the industry, even though the industry itself had fought the fight and won. She openly stated that her crusade warranted the sacrifice of democracy.

This differs only in kind and perhaps choice of victim from the practice of police charging people and throwing them in jail for charges they know will be dismissed, knowing as they do that the victory will damage the lives and livelihoods of their victims anyway, while they continue to enjoy immmunity.

So yes, I think the Republicans have refined this idea and proliferated it and brought it into the mainstream, but they did not invent it.

People are fond of pointing to these Pyrrhic victories as proof that "the system works," but even though lifeboats work, the ship still sinks. The best democracy happens before the trial, not after.
 
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