Terrorist Attack in Spain - Over 60 dead

Peskanov said:
Hammegk, you are extremist. What can I say? Try to learn about arab countries a bit more. And no, and I don't believe in crusades. They never worked in the past.
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Dead men don't set bombs. What would you like me "learn about arab countries" that you think I don't know. Re the Crusades, didn't they have some effect on getting some arab conquerors to leave Spain before the negotiations for your complete surrender had even begun?


Grammatron, terrorist should be captured and prosecuted. I guess you would like me to support the idea of invading libia, yemen, sudan, or any other country with fundamentalism. No, I don't.
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Stepping on G here, good luck with your intent to pursue this as a criminal matter rather than a declaration of war. Our lovable perjuror Bil-Hil tried that for 8 years. Our score approaches 3000 on US soil, your score is now 200 on yours.
 
Well, I realize I'm a little behind here, now that this seems to be agreed as an Islamic fundamentalist attack, but can anyone tell me more about ETA?

I know what it stands for, and I know who the Basques are, but what are ETA 'fighting' for? What are their ultimate objectives. And, perhaps more importantly, someone mentioned that they have some self-rule now; what degree of autonomy does the region have?

Cheers,
Rat.
 
Well, now it's known. Al Qaeda.

That's not known at all; all they have is the finding that some group (which nobody heard of before) CLAIMING they did it FOR Al Qaeda.

I doubt bin Laden is too sorry, but that's hardly proof. It's by no means unknown for all kinds of terror groups to claim responsibility for attacks they had nothing to do with, as an attempt to make more people afraid of them, or simply cash in on the publicity.

This doesn't mean Al Qaeda didn't do it, it just means the evidence now is unclear. No doubt we'll know more in a week.
 
Originally posted by Peskanov
He must retreat in public.
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And after that we can create a new form of government where public policy is determined by who is willing to kill the most civilians.
 
How about, before anyone goes rushing about blaming people and creating wastelands in other parts of the world, we find out who REALLY did it and why, and prosecute them? And just to let you know, the actual bastards who killed 202 people in the Bali nightclub bombing were quietly but ruthlessly tracked down, caught, prosecuted, and convicted WITHOUT the necessity of invading anywhere or shooting anything up.

PS. My condolences to the Spanish people and especially to Madrid. Do not let anyone push you around. Rise above their unhumanity. Stay calm. Stay strong.
 
SOMOS TODOS ESPAÑOLES

I just felt I had to say that. If Le Monde could say "We are All Americans" (albeit in French) after 9/11, the least I can do is say this in Spanish. The BBC world service is claiming a death toll of 190 with 1400 injured.
 
I don't think either the Government should resign over this. It took a political stance, i.e. pro-war, which was extremely unpopular with the citizenry, but the upcoming elections should show how much support Aznar and co. lost over this (recent, pre-11M polls indicated that they were going to carry the election very easily). Maybe people wil bring two and two together and change their vote, but the general appeal (and one that I support, much as I'd like to see Aznar out of office) has been "please vote as you would have voted".

Hammegk: welcome to my ignore list.
 
epepke said:
SOMOS TODOS ESPAÑOLES

I just felt I had to say that. If Le Monde could say "We are All Americans" (albeit in French) after 9/11, the least I can do is say this in Spanish. The BBC world service is claiming a death toll of 190 with 1400 injured.
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:clap:
 
Peskanov said:
Hammegk, you are extremist. What can I say? Try to learn about arab countries a bit more. And no, and I don't believe in crusades. They never worked in the past.

Grammatron, terrorist should be captured and prosecuted. I guess you would like me to support the idea of invading libia, yemen, sudan, or any other country with fundamentalism. No, I don't.
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Don't mind Hammey, he's been looking for a moral panic to replace Communism since the nineties.
 
Watching the TV this morning, I have Been overwhelmed with admiration for the way the Spanish people have helped each other, the way the emergency services have worked and the spontaneous unity within the country.

People of Spain I salute you.
 
Skeptic said:
Well, now it's known. Al Qaeda.

That's not known at all; all they have is the finding that some group (which nobody heard of before) CLAIMING they did it FOR Al Qaeda.
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We have heard of them before - they claimed responsibility for the power cuts in New York and Canada last year. They didn't do them (either).

(According the BBC, anyway).
 
richardm said:


We have heard of them before - they claimed responsibility for the power cuts in New York and Canada last year. They didn't do them (either).

(According the BBC, anyway).
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And keep in mind that a terrorist group normally waits a couple of months before anouncing it's been them. In 1987, when the Hipercor bombing took place (ETA's biggest (second biggest) attack), they also said it wasn't them at first. There are a lot of clues pointing to ETA, failed similar actiosn in Christmas in another Madrid train station, the recently intercepted van with 500+ kg (more than 1000 pounds) of explosives, the inminet general election...
 
Grammatron said:


I'm not saying you should go around invading everyone, but at the same time to what extent should Spain be willing to go to capture those who do such things?
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I think it's a difficult question, because we don't know yet who did it, and the answer would depend largely on the identity of the terrorists. Should they be "etarras", I think we sholud do what we're already doing, public protests, no negotiation, and agreement between democratic parties.

Should they be foreign islamic terrorists, I simply don't know. It would depend on son many things... wether they are supported by a foreign government or not for example.

P.S.: Don't get me wrong on the "no negotiation" thing. This is not a simple independence question. What ETA wants is not as simple as independence for some territories in France and Spain. The regime that these kind of people kill for would be a nazi-like one. For example, nacionalist parties (and not only those supporting ETA) want a referendum to decide this question, but only people with basque blood would be allowed to vote, not all the population of these regions. Whoever is interested can investigate some declarations of PNV (Partido Nacionalista Vasco) leader about blood Rh and "basqueness" (and the PNV does not support ETA)
 
Fendetestas said:


And keep in mind that a terrorist group normally waits a couple of months before anouncing it's been them. In 1987, when the Hipercor bombing took place (ETA's biggest (second biggest) attack), they also said it wasn't them at first. There are a lot of clues pointing to ETA, failed similar actiosn in Christmas in another Madrid train station, the recently intercepted van with 500+ kg (more than 1000 pounds) of explosives, the inminet general election...
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... But don't ETA generally give a warning before an attack? I don't know if this is an invariable rule, but it is one of the things that has been noted about the un-ETA-like characteristics of this attack.
 
richardm said:


... But don't ETA generally give a warning before an attack? I don't know if this is an invariable rule, but it is one of the things that has been noted about the un-ETA-like characteristics of this attack.
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That's true... but "generally" is the important word. Sometimes they don't and actually most of their actions are killing politicians and policemen with shots in the head (generally from the back, of course) or trap bombs in their cars. It's true that when they plant a bomb in a public area, the generally warn the authorities, but sometimes they give false warnings or false timings, in order to kill the policemen trying to defuse the bombs. (This time apparently some of the bombs had retarded timers)
 
A few years ago the Natural Law party (Trancendental Meditation crowd) decided to lower the crime rate in New York. For a month they meditated and hopped up and down. At the end they announced their actions had directly led to a 27% reduction in crime. When it was pointed out that crime during the month was actually up on the previous years figures the answers “Yes, but crime was 27% down on what it would have been if we had not meditated.”

Tony Blair and George Bush tell us that the world is now a safer place. After the worst terrorist attack in Europe (whoever was responsible) what is the difference between the claims of the Natural Law party and the two world leaders ?
 
As far as the van with the detonators and the Arabic tapes, it seems like very inconclusive evidence. I bet it's not awfully hard to find a company that does demolition or excavation work, using explosives, that has either Arab ownership or at least a few Arab employees. If you had searched all vehicles in a three-block radius after the WTC went down, I bet you'd find Bibles, audio tapes in Arabic, video tapes in Spanish, love letters in Hindi...
 
Lothian said:
A few years ago the Natural Law party (Trancendental Meditation crowd) decided to lower the crime rate in New York. For a month they meditated and hopped up and down. At the end they announced their actions had directly led to a 27% reduction in crime. When it was pointed out that crime during the month was actually up on the previous years figures the answers “Yes, but crime was 27% down on what it would have been if we had not meditated.”

Tony Blair and George Bush tell us that the world is now a safer place. After the worst terrorist attack in Europe (whoever was responsible) what is the difference between the claims of the Natural Law party and the two world leaders ?
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If you ask certain posters around here, their answer will be that there hasn't been an attack on the mainland United States since the War on Terror began.

That will be sufficient answer for them.

Graham
 
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