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Terrorist Attack in Spain - Over 60 dead

richardm said:
Sorry, all. This is my last word on the near-derailment of this thread
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Originally posted by The Don
Why, where is your evidence of you being unable to post ?
You have been able to post (as is your right) and a number of people have complained to you, not a moderator, suggesting that what you posted though very interesting should be considered off-topic (as is their right). Persumably time will tell as to which view is more popular
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Some chose to say I should not post certain words, while others posted that my certain words 'harmed' the thread and others claimed my only 'motivation' was an attempt to derail the thread. Which is in fact others derailing the thread.

If people don't agree with a post then either IGNORE it or debate it. But to say "it doesn't belong", and is "harmful" and is "an attempt to derail the thread" is nothing but censorship.

And with that I too agree, back to the topic, the Madrid bombings...enough about this entire ridiculous affair over my single post and the wild adjectives to describe my 'criminal' act.
 
Here is a rough translation of the "gara" article:

ATTACK IN MADRID the left abertzale expresses "absolute rejection" to the attacks of Madrid and its "total solidarity with the all the victims" In an appearance for the press in Donostia, a representation of the left abertzale headed by Arnaldo Otegi, Joseba Permach and Pernando Barrena, has made public his "absolute rejection" to the attacks that they have caused more of a hundred deaths in Madrid.
GARA DONOSTIA -. Representation of the left abertzale has appeared today in press conference after the attacks registered today in the morning in the Spanish capital. In the appearance, headed by mahaikides Arnaldo Otegi, Joseba Permach and Pernando Barrena, they have indicated that the left abertzale "does not believe at all the possibility of ETA being the author of the attacks". Also, they have shown its "total solidarity with the Madrilenian town and all the victims", as well as the "absolute rejection of an indiscriminate action against the civil populace". "What it has happened it is is a massacre, it does not have another definition", they concluded.
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If ETA is really behind the attacks, I bet that tomorrow Otegui and the rest will be arrested.
If Al-Queda is responsible, I think the elections are lost for the current party in government, PP. In this case the attack would be a response for Spain's stance in Irak's invasion.
 
Like many, I will hold judgement on the responsibility until more details are known and investigators have a chance to do some interviews and work.

I think it is likely that ETA bears the ultimate responsibility, but the size and coordination is such that it seems possible that they recieved some "outside consultation" to pull this off. It is also possible that this is a splinter group, like the ones that have split off from the IRA.

And while this may sound cold-blooded, it is in the Spanish Government's interest that this be identified with ETA, IMHO

As for the anguished question as to "why", I would think the terrorists hope that a Government over-reaction will lead to oppression in the Basque region so that people become angry at the Government and not with the terrorists who led to the circumstance. With a tragedy of this size and scope it seems more likely that folks will turn ETA members in and the movement may eat itself from within.

Like everything else in the universe, time will tell.
 
Cleopatra said:


What I will say might appear silly but don't take it the wrong way. I hope that it's ETA and not Al Queda.
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I think I can understand your wish for this being an act of ETA instead of Al Queda. Though I am not sure if it is not possible to whish for it to be the other way around as well.

Though at the moment I think we all care more about the victims than the issue of who actually committed this act.
Still it is an important question that hopefully will be solved soon since any uncertainty about who to blame will make matters worse.

The fact that it is not the Modus Operandi of ETA does not mean that they might not be behind it. As I have understood it ETA has lost support lately and their political branch has been banned that might lead to more violent attacks not less. Concerning the fact that Al Queda is know for their synchronised attacks does not mean that other terrorists can’t learn to do the same.
 
Mr Manifesto said:
QUICK! INVADE IRAQ!
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That's nice.

Death toll is close to 300 now, and MM thinks it's a big friggin joke. I don't think it's funny. We have posters here from Madrid trying to deal with this crap. Being from the DC area I have a pretty good idea what they're feeling right now. My sympathies to the victims and their families. :(

What this shows is that there is little difference whether this was done by Al Qaeda, ETA, Red Brigades, Libyans, or Hamas,.. terrorism...ALL terrorism,..leaves the same result; twisted wreckage and death and suffering of innocent humans. No matter what these animals call themselves, or what their "cause" is, they deserve to have war made upon them until they cease to be a threat to anyone else.

I wish the Spanish people luck in this....and I am hoping that my country will offer as much help to the Spanish government as they would ever wish for.

-z
 
So far, the newpaper report says that the attack was BLAMED on the Basque seperatists by the Spanish government, not that they accepted (or claimed) responsibility for it.

It's too early to tell who is behind this. Of course, denying and condemning the attack is not necessarily evidence you didn't do it (see Arafat's modus operandi). But at the moment, nobody is proven to have done it.
 
I'm very sorry for the people of Madrid and all Spain today.

I'm so sick of terrorism--all kinds--I'm just angry about it.

If you can't get your point across without taking out a whole raft of innocent bystanders, maybe your point isn't worth a !@$%???!

I'm going to shut up now, mainly because I'm furious and sad and filled with loathing for my own kind.

We aren't going to evolve, are we?
 
Originally posted by rikzilla
What this shows is that there is little difference whether this was done by Al Qaeda, ETA, Red Brigades, Libyans, or Hamas,.. terrorism...ALL terrorism,..leaves the same result; twisted wreckage and death and suffering of innocent humans. No matter what these animals call themselves, or what their "cause" is, they deserve to have war made upon them until they cease to be a threat to anyone else.
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Amen!

It doesn’t matter if this is Al-Qaeda, ETA or the Madrid Girl Scouts, the point is that a civilized society cannot accept terrorism as a method for advancing political goals. From Belfast to Jerusalem, from Baghdad to New York and now Madrid these animals must be stopped. These are not freedom fighters, they are murderers. Sympathizing with them is complicity to murder.
 
from richardm:
Personally, I've always thought that a bomb on an Underground train would be as good a terror weapon as you could hope to have, and frankly I'm surprised that it's not happened.
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The London Underground was actually one of the first targets of the Dynamite Faction of the IRB/IRA in 1883/84.

edited to add:
A single person with a rucksack full of Semtex on a few of the major underground lines - Circle, Bakerloo, Northern Line for example - would cripple London for days or even weeks.
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The Northern Line can do that on its own. I speak from experience.
 
They are not so sure about ETA right now. It is their main line of investigation, but it seems they have found a Koran, so they are more open to another possibilities.
 
They are not so sure about ETA right now. It is their main line of investigation, but it seems they have found a Koran, so they are more open to another possibilities.

Hmmmmmmmmm.... You really think that, if this was a muslim act of terror, the perpetrators would leave a koran next to the bomb?

Quite apart from the fact that the Koran could easily belong to one of the victims, this sounds more like an attempt to shift the blame to muslim terorrists than a real sign.

But perhaps I'm wrong.
 
Quite apart from the fact that the Koran could easily belong to one of the victims(...).
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No, they found a tape with verses from the Koran in a van with detonators or explosives, but i also think it's too obvious. After all, there could be muslim etarras.
 
I'm pretty sure myself that this down to ETA. They've taken some serious hits recently in France and Spain, and I think this is an act of defiance. The attacks were closely co-ordinated, but they hit easy, unsecured targets - not political or military, with high security. That means the perpetrators didn't have to call on much assistance from a highly-infiltrated centre. ETA is institutionally psychopathic, if that's possible, and has no meaningful political strategy except to continue its existence. The ETA-linked parties may be denying ETA involvement - how long before we hear it was the Spanish Government that did it, with CIA assistance? - and they may lose some support, but the core will stick with them. Sad to say. My heart goes out to the people of Spain.
 
Originally posted by Fendetestas
They are not so sure about ETA right now. It is their main line of investigation, but it seems they have found a Koran, so they are more open to another possibilities.
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I'm with Skeptic on this one, that doesn't sound right. These were timed explosives, not suicide attacks, there is no reason to assume that any personal items found would belong to the bombers.
 
from Darat:
I've often wondered about the targets chosen by terrorists in the UK in the past. I've made an assumption that we really did have good intelligence and it forced them to be less "strategic". For instance two vans with explosives under a couple of the major flyovers into London, or on the M25 could cripple the whole of Greater London area, probably for months.
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I've discussed this with civil engineers (out of idle curiosity) and it's not as easy as you might think. You might crack up some concrete but to bring down a column you'd have to strap a lot of Semtex all around it. Fertiliser and diesel aren't enough. Some sorry attempts were made during the recent Troubles, and on overground railways, but to no effect.

After the Birmingham bombs the "nutter" faction of the Provisionals lost control, and there were few other attempts at mass murder of civilians. We were lucky in the UK that the Nationalists weren't crazies, but were actually quite politically sophisticated. The problem in NI now is that the Loyalists are crazies - their idea of political sophistication is Holocaust denial.
 
Mycroft said:


I'm with Skeptic on this one, that doesn't sound right. These were timed explosives, not suicide attacks, there is no reason to assume that any personal items found would belong to the bombers.
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What I was trying to say, and I also believe it's ETA, is that they found them NOT in the bombing scene, but in a van with detonators and/or explosives. They didn't belong to a victim.
 
Mycroft said:


Amen!

It doesn’t matter if this is Al-Qaeda, ETA or the Madrid Girl Scouts, the point is that a civilized society cannot accept terrorism as a method for advancing political goals. From Belfast to Jerusalem, from Baghdad to New York and now Madrid these animals must be stopped.
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Unfortunetly Bush doesn't agree with you (he's only against internation terrorism).
 
Fendetestas said:


What I was trying to say, and I also believe it's ETA, is that they found them NOT in the bombing scene, but in a van with detonators and/or explosives. They didn't belong to a victim.
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Interesting. CNN.com has now picked up this story, but without details for the moment.
 
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