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Terri Schiavo

reprise said:


Yes there are. I doubt that there's a country in the Western world where withholding of support isn't practised on a daily basis in neonatal intensive care units and in hospices.

Once my partner entered his final vegetative state, no further fluids or nutrition were given (they were not withdrawn in order to initiate death, however), only morphine.

Cases like Terri's - however - are extremely rare. Decisions about withdrawing care don't usually take over a decade to make.
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As I understand, your partner was dying anyhow, and the fluids made him vomit. Your partner would not live long with or without the fluids. In the case of Terri, she could live for a long period of time with the feeding tube. Most withholding of support seems to be respirators and such, not a feeding tube. In my country, extraordinary measures seem to be used for newborns. Hospices are for those who are at the end stage of their lives.
Her parents want her to live and want to care for her. The state is denying them this. She has no written instructions. Her parents have fought for her right to live. Some doctors have said that she could have some sort of recovery. A very little bit to be sure. But why kill her in this way? If we did this to death row inmates the outcry would sound around the world. This woman commited no crime.
 
Denise said:


As I understand, your partner was dying anyhow, and the fluids made him vomit. Your partner would not live long with or without the fluids. In the case of Terri, she could live for a long period of time with the feeding tube. Most withholding of support seems to be respirators and such, not a feeding tube. In my country, extraordinary measures seem to be used for newborns. Hospices are for those who are at the end stage of their lives.
Her parents want her to live and want to care for her. The state is denying them this. She has no written instructions. Her parents have fought for her right to live. Some doctors have said that she could have some sort of recovery. A very little bit to be sure. But why kill her in this way? If we did this to death row inmates the outcry would sound around the world. This woman commited no crime.
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One of the big problems in cases like this is that they usually come about because extraordinary measures were taken at some point.

This woman - indeed - committed no crime. Rightly or wrongly though, a decision was made to attempt to save her life 13 years ago. Should Terri's existence (and I would maintain that she is existing, not living) be continued solely for the sake of her parents? Even if you suggest that she should, what is to become of her when her parents die?

IMHO, what should have happened a very long time ago is that a DNR order should have been put in place and a palliative care only directive issued. Had that occured, Terri's life would almost certainly have ended naturally some years ago.

This woman is not going to grow a new cerebral cortex, nor can we manufacture one for her. The saddest aspect of all in this case is that the legal system has allowed her to be an object to be litigated over for such a long time and in doing so has denied her the natural death which would have otherwise occured.
 
reprise said:


One of the big problems in cases like this is that they usually come about because extraordinary measures were taken at some point.

This woman - indeed - committed no crime. Rightly or wrongly though, a decision was made to attempt to save her life 13 years ago. Should Terri's existence (and I would maintain that she is existing, not living) be continued solely for the sake of her parents? Even if you suggest that she should, what is to become of her when her parents die?
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Her siblings have expressed an interest in taking care of her. I guess it depends on what you consider living. She might experience some joy, she has not, to my knowledge, been allowed to try any rehabilitation. What is life? What if she does experience it? I don't believe in an afterlife. Maybe some life is better than no life? We don't really know. Terri didn't have it in writing.

IMHO, what should have happened a very long time ago is that a DNR order should have been put in place and a palliative care only directive issued. Had that occured, Terri's life would almost certainly have ended naturally some years ago.
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Actually her husband did do that. After he won the lawsuit of course. The one where he said he would spend the money on rehabilitative therapy. Which never occured.

This woman is not going to grow a new cerebral cortex, nor can we manufacture one for her. The saddest aspect of all in this case is that the legal system has allowed her to be an object to be litigated over for such a long time and in doing so has denied her the natural death which would have otherwise occured.
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I disagree. I think the saddest aspect is that she will slowly die of dehydration with cracked lips and a bleeding nose. The natural death she was "denied" could take place naturally through infection, or old age. But, I don't think starvation is a natural death.
 
Actually her husband did do that. After he won the lawsuit of course. The one where he said he would spend the money on rehabilitative therapy. Which never occured.
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Denise, have you actually read the details of the malpractise claim and the reason why the judgement which was awarded was only a fraction of what had been sought?

While the Schindlers' website might lead you to conclude that Terri's husband simply changed his mind about rehabilition, in fact the malpractise suit itself revealed that Terri was not a candidate for the kind of rehabilitation which had been claimed for in the lawsuit.

The fact that the Schindlers have only recently made claims of perjury and physical abuse is disturbing - the timing of the accusations makes them sound like acts of desperation on the part of the Schindlers.

No, death by withdrawal of nutrition and hydration is not a natural death, but please let's not minimise the fact that the Schindlers have repeatedly taken legal action to ensure that their daughter was NOT allowed to die naturally over the last decade. No matter what their motives for taking that action, they are every bit as responsible for the manner by which she now faces death as anyone else who has been involved in this medico-legal farce.
 
Denise said:
Can you give me a link for that?
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I'll hunt it up for you . Because it's one of those horrible .pdf files I didn't save it to my PC.
 
reprise said:


I'll hunt it up for you . Because it's one of those horrible .pdf files I didn't save it to my PC.
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Thanks, it was part of my undestanding that the judgement was in part for her continuing care, and punitive damages because of misdiagnosis.
 
Denise said:


Thanks, it was part of my undestanding that the judgement was in part for her continuing care, and punitive damages because of misdiagnosis.
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The final judgement was actually quite odd, in the future damages component was awarded for a 17 year period and the award was substantially reduced on the basis of Terri's attributable negligence.

Now I don't know what the cost of the care Terri has been receiving would be per annum in the US, but I find it difficult to imagine there'd be any change out of $100,000 per year. The total of all the legal awards made to Terri's medical fund is just under $1, 600, 000. That information is on the website set up by Terri's parents.

I'm still tracking down the link for you. I got to it from another messageboard, so I have to hunt through my other messagebaords to find it again.
 
Cool. I'm gonna hit they hay. Thanks for caring. Even if you disagree. Apathy is too rampant in my opinion.
 
I believe, after reading this, that the husband has the right to make the decisions. I don't, however, believe that this should be right.
 
Denise said:
I believe, after reading this, that the husband has the right to make the decisions. I don't, however, believe that this should be right.
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I believe that a better option would have been for the Guardianship Court to order that only palliative care be given to Terri and that a DNR directive be put in place. Given the Schindler's history of litigation - however - I can see why the Guardianship Court did not choose that option.

I don't think that people understand that the Guardianship Court did not "adjudicate" on a dispute between two parties, but effectively assumed the role of Terri's advocate and made its decision in that capacity.
 
reprise said:


I believe that a better option would have been for the Guardianship Court to order that only palliative care be given to Terri and that a DNR directive be put in place. Given the Schindler's history of litigation - however - I can see why the Guardianship Court did not choose that option.

I don't think that people understand that the Guardianship Court did not "adjudicate" on a dispute between two parties, but effectively assumed the role of Terri's advocate and made its decision in that capacity.
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I can totally understand the Schindler's use of litigation. To me, it is not a bad thing. They are trying to save their daughter's life. I wouldn't consider that an abuse of the courts, I consider that acts of a desperate family- for good reason.
 
Denise said:
I can totally understand the Schindler's use of litigation. To me, it is not a bad thing. They are trying to save their daughter's life. I wouldn't consider that an abuse of the courts, I consider that acts of a desperate family- for good reason.
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I can't agree that their attempt to have the feeding tube reinserted while a criminal investigation is conducted into their claim that Terri's heart attack was caused by Michael trying to strangle her is not a flagrant abuse of the legal process.

I think that Michael Schiavo has showed enormous restraint in not taking legal action against the Schindlers to redress some of the allegations they have levelled against him. The legally convenient times at which the Schindlers have chosen to make their accusations makes me doubt whether they even believe those accusations to be true. They seem to shop around for any medical opinion or any legal strategy which will serve their end and not be concerned about any damage they inflict in the process.
 
I don't know who has been advising her parents. I think it is possible that they have been convinced that she had been possibly strangled because they are so desperate. They might believe it, they might not.

They are convinced that their daughter is aware to some degree. There are doctors who have told them that Terri has some awareness. From their perspective the State is murdering their daughter and they are in a helpless position. The family has spent all their money fighting this, including their retirement funds. I'm not so sure that I would act any different if I were in their shoes.
 
I've been following this for the last week, and it's all I write about in my blog.
I can't tell you how horrible this case makes me feel.
My half-Sister has severe cerebral palsey and many other ailments. Her handicap is identical to Terri's.
She is not in a coma. She is not in a vegetative state.
She can track movements and she smiles when she hears her family's voice. She laughs, and she cries. She is irritated when she is tickled. That describes Terri. That describes my Sister.

If Terri had said before hand that she didn't want to live this way, fine. But the method of it is heinous.
All I can think about is how my Sister would feel, alone and hungry, suffereing, starving to death. I'm so upset by it. So upset.

I'm for the right to die. And euthenasia is a wonderful thing. But all they need to do is give her a shot. If they're going to stop her life, that's all they need to do, I won't even get into the idea that maybe she doesnt' need to die. All I'll argue is that their method is cruel and inhumane.
It will take 14 days! 14 days to suffer from starvation. Oh, she'll feel it. It's unbelievably awful.

Watch the video clips on her website. You'll see that she's aware and awake and ALIVE. She's not comatose or in a vegetative state. I KNOW. My Sister looks just the way she does in those clips. The proof is in those videos.
 
The family wanted to try therapy to see if she could learn to eat, it was denied. I think if she had left something in writing, I would feel better about this case. If I starved a dog to death, I would be charged with a crime. Still thinking her husband should walk away and go on with his life. Give guardianship to her parents. If she is truly not aware- what is the crime in keeping her alive? She, if not aware, is not aware that she is living the way she wouldn't have wanted to. So how can she be a victim? Hope I'm making sense here.
 
Part of a new update on www.terrisfight.org

On other fronts, Monsignor Thaddeus Malanowski, who has been Terri’s spiritual provider for over 3 years, was told he may not administer to her the sacrament of Holy Communion. Monsignor was informed by police at Hospice that he would be arrested if he tried to administer the Catholic woman the sacrament.

In a statement to the press, Michael Schiavo’s attorney, George Felos stated that the reason for this was that he didn’t want “anyone to do something that would cause Terri distress”.
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Not quite sure what to make of that. Has she received communion in her current state previously? I'm an atheist, but I understand that her family has a strong Catholic faith. Isn't that against the Constitution as far as allowing people to practice (or not) their religion?
 
Thanks for the update, Denise. I hadn't looked at the site yet today.
I'm really surprised how little news coverage there is of this.
It seems that I've already read all the recent stories searched on google news.
I'm also surprised no one has done a hunger strike yet.
 
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