TERFs crash London Pride

It varies, but all the pressure and all the travel is for faster and faster affirmation and on to the hormones.

It's the combined threat of men being able to access all women's protected spaces by doing no more than say "I'm a transwoman", and what's happening to young people, especially girls, that's causing the rising tide of concern.

Yeah, I'm really not cool with stuff like this, too:
https://vimeo.com/185178522

The main difference between a cancer diagnosis and transgenderism is not even the case-fatality rate, but rather diagnostic certainty. There'a LOT of diagnostic certainty with cancer, near 100%. With a transgender minor, the "desister rate" really might be 60%, and nobody has a crystal ball yet to know who will later think it was worth it vs who will be detransitioning and facing monumental regret.
 
Please! 'gatekeeping' absolutely means different things to different people. There is NOT a strong consensus on what it means. I've seen some descriptions of gatekeeping that I completely agree with and others that I heartily disagree with.

Rolfe, you might be talking about Walt Heyer aka Laura Jensen, or maybe Charles Kane aka Samantha Kane. They're the typical web-famous detransitioning stories, featured in the Daily Mail, etc.
 
That's pretty rich, in the thread where I've been reviled as a bigot and a transphobe, and where I've been repeatedly mischaracterised as believing all sorts of stuff I've repeatedly said I don't believe.


If you don't believe all the transphobic conspiracy theories, why do you keep posting them? Why is everything you link to a transphobic conspiracy theory? Your protestations sound rather disingenuous in the face of the things you've actually said and referred to here.

Really, I'm going to do the classic "do your own research" thing here.


:sdl:

Classic woo tactic indeed.

Your "evidence" has relied exclusively and entirely on sources with profound, blatant, and not even remotely subtle anti-trans agendas. Every. Single. One. Some have been from far-left radical (pseudo-)feminists who preach about how transpeople in total are evil agents of the patriarchy (if they're MtF), or delusional victims of the patriarchy (if they're FtM), and that transgenderism itself is a delusional mental illness at best; or are from Religious Right hate sites who preach that transgenderism is an attempt by the evil libruls to destroy good Christian families and values; or are from sensationalist sources that pander heavily to one of those groups. All of them have relied on unverifiable anecdotes, outdated and/or heavily manipulated statistics divorced of context, invective thinly disguised as "analysis", and so on. Classic woo techniques.

Not one source has come from a verifiable, peer-reviewed journal article, or reliable, fact-checking, mainstream news source (FOX News and the Daily Mail may be arguably mainstream, but they're not reliable nor do they engage in effective fact-checking). Meanwhile, every single refutation of your assertions has come from verifiable, peer-reviewed journal articles, and reliable, fact-checking mainstream news sources.

What are we to take away from that, besides the fact that you're also an anti-trans crusader who believes in the conspiracy theories promulgated by your pet sources? If you lie down with dogs...

Still no shred of evidence that tomboys and effeminate boys are 'pushed' by the 'trans cult' to undergo reassignment surgery, I suppose?


Conspiracy theories aren't about evidence. They can, in fact, only exists in the lack of evidence. Like any other faith-based system, they exist primarily as a psychological crutch, a convenient scapegoat for what the believer sees as personal or societal failings; and a way to feel more special, elite, knowledgeable, woke, etc than the general milieu. For some, it's also a way to put themselves in the role of prophet or messiah, to "open the eyes" of the masses and lift them from their ignorance.

It's also a way to deal with cultural changes and upheavals. People, as a rule, are neophobes, they dislike change, anything new and different and outside their experiences, especially change that challenges their deeply held beliefs and firmly-entrenched worldview. They see change as inherently bad, damaging, rather than natural growth and development, regardless of the nature of the change.

As a rule, the older one gets, the more conservative and fossilized one gets in one's worldview, and the more likely one is to react negatively to anything that challenges that worldview. That's why every generation complains about how the youth of the next generation are destroying society, how the next generation has rejected the values and social mores and niceties of their predecessors, and rejects the next generation's exploration of new worldviews and experiences as "fads" or "a phase", and works to suppress the new and different in the hopes that said youth will come to realize "the error of their ways" and embrace the values and worldviews of their elders.
 
It's not standard everywhere:

https://gendercare.co.uk/faq.shtml#timescales
How long before I'm started on hormones?
It depends on your particular situation and clinician. If, for example, your blood results are normal and Dr Lorimer agrees to "bridging hormones", you could be started on hormones a little over a month after your appointment with him.


Sounds like there's some gatekeeping and assessment going on there.

Maybe you just skimmed over that part.

Nothing in that quote even precludes the likelihood that other assessment had already gone on. "[Y]our particular situation and clinician" seems to imply there would be.

Here's another excerpt from the FAQ section you snipped that from. The first one, in fact.

What are the waiting times for GenderCare?

It varies but tends to be months rather than weeks. Email to ask your preferred clinician, their contact details are here: http://gendercare.co.uk/how-to-use-gendercare.html


And then, from the second one.

How long after the appointment before my letter arrives?

It varies between clinicians but, usually, it's around 2-3 weeks. Dr Lorimer sends a draft copy of your letter by encrypted email, you get back to him to okay this and then the paper copies go out to you, your GP and any other doctor involved.


A lot of steps generally take place before you get to the point of consulting with a prescribing endocrinologist.
 

That's after they get to see that particular overseeing therapist. It sounds like that's a few steps into the process. That guy sends a letter to the GP recommending it while the person waits like six months for further counseling. I'm not super clear on what 'bridging hormones' are though as google turns up as many anti-sites as not.
 
That's after they get to see that particular overseeing therapist. It sounds like that's a few steps into the process. That guy sends a letter to the GP recommending it while the person waits like six months for further counseling. I'm not super clear on what 'bridging hormones' are though as google turns up as many anti-sites as not.

Where are you getting that from? They list all that as in house.
https://gendercare.co.uk/how-to-use-gendercare.shtml

Skipping right to hormones if someone wants is just "no gatekeeping".
 
https://transit.org.uk/private-care.html
GenderCare (UK)
http://gendercare.co.uk/

This is very good and they don’t gatekeep much. Their waiting lists are relatively rather high (as of August 2017) due to high demand, so it might be better to use GenderGP or wait on NHS referall.

Go to gendercare.co.uk for details.

Book an appointment with Dr. Lorimer and Dr. Seal.

Chase Brexton (Maryland, USA)
http://www.chasebrexton.org/

Informed consent clinic in Baltimore, Maryland, USA. If you live in this area or nearby areas (e.g. Washington DC) then you can use this clinic for HRT. Informed consent means you just get HRT, once they check your blood test results and so on (i.e. no gatekeeping).
 
I saw a video of a Canadian TV journalist who went through the process of a legal change of sex in 24 hours, just to show how little gatekeeping there was. She was blonde and chirpy and all she did was scoop her hair into a baseball cap. By the end of the day she was legally a man. I noticed someone saying they were reluctant to link to it because it was on the website of a dubious right-wing organisation, but it still happened.

Obviously she wasn't going to go looking for testosterone and a mastectomy, the point was to show that a legal change of sex was as simple as saying a few stock phrases to a doctor. "I mean she has to believe me, otherwise she's a massive bigot, right?" is the phrase I remember. And that proved to be the case. The bemused-looking doctor simply signed her off.

The point was in fact to show how dangerous this approach is for women's rights, as of course it's just as easy for a man to do it the other way. And so you have people like Alex Drummond, beard and all, insisting on being called she and accessing women's facilities without let or hindrance. And maybe Alex Drummond isn't actually a danger to women and girls, but first, how is anyone supposed to be able to tell, and second, what Alex Drummond can do, your friendly local peeping tom, paedophile or rapist can also do.

This is where we're heading, and this is why women's groups are belatedly up in arms about proposed legal changes that are almost fait accompli but which they've only just found out about because no women's groups were consulted during the drafting of the legislation. Because the trans groups, who were consulted (it's more accurate to say they spearheaded the entire thing, the politicians didn't come up with it on their own initiative) declared that they were the only people who mattered and women who objected were transphobes who shouldn't be listened to.

So on one hand women are being told that any "grown-ass" man who chooses to say he's a woman, no need for hormones let alone surgery - in fact no need even to shave - has right of access to all women's facilities. And on the other hand young people who are exploring their identities are having hormones and surgery urged on them, rather than support to explore their identity without doing irreversible damage to their bodies (and their fertility).

It's a completely mad situation.
 
https://transit.org.uk/private-care.html
GenderCare (UK)
http://gendercare.co.uk/

This is very good and they don’t gatekeep much. Their waiting lists are relatively rather high (as of August 2017) due to high demand, so it might be better to use GenderGP or wait on NHS referall.

Go to gendercare.co.uk for details.

Book an appointment with Dr. Lorimer and Dr. Seal.

Chase Brexton (Maryland, USA)
http://www.chasebrexton.org/

Informed consent clinic in Baltimore, Maryland, USA. If you live in this area or nearby areas (e.g. Washington DC) then you can use this clinic for HRT. Informed consent means you just get HRT, once they check your blood test results and so on (i.e. no gatekeeping).


"Informed consent" means that the doctor who is going to write the prescriptions has satisfied themselves that the patient has taken the time and done the work to fully understand the steps they are about to take.

This can be demonstrated by a number of routes, but generally involve quite a bit of counseling and some evidence of commitment to the transition, like already having spent some period of presenting full-time as the target gender.
 
Sounds like there's some gatekeeping and assessment going on there.

Maybe you just skimmed over that part.

Nothing in that quote even precludes the likelihood that other assessment had already gone on. "[Y]our particular situation and clinician" seems to imply there would be.

Here's another excerpt from the FAQ section you snipped that from. The first one, in fact.



And then, from the second one.



A lot of steps generally take place before you get to the point of consulting with a prescribing endocrinologist.

All those references to "your preferred clinician" are talking about their in-house clinicians you can choose between.

It's a private, for-profit clinic, and the only things they want to know before you get a appointment are:

https://gendercare.co.uk/how-to-use-gendercare.shtml

1 What name do you prefer to be known by (when we meet you and/or in written reports)?
Have you made an official name change, for example, via www.freedeedpoll.org.uk?
2 How old are you?
3 Have you used other gender services, private or NHS?
4 Are you living, day to day, as you'd like to live, gender-wise? If not, what needs to change?
5 What do you do during the day (work, study, social activity)?
6 Are those close to you (family, friends, partners, colleagues) aware of your gender circumstances? Do they support your plans?
7 Have you had any treatment for physical or mental health conditions?
8 What's your objective in approaching GenderCare – what would you like from us?
 
I took "bridging hormones" as a euphemism for puberty blockers.

Puberty blockers are hormones used off-label to delay or prevent natural puberty in normal adolescents. They're otherwise used for chemical castration (that's what's used when this is discussed in the context of dealing with sex offenders) and for delaying a precocious puberty, when a child is found to be going through puberty at a ridiculously early age. Usually in that case the treatment is stopped at the earliest possible moment when puberty isn't going to be socially intolerable for the child.

Known side-effects include a reduction in bone density, a reduction of a few points in IQ, and possible effects on the cardiovascular system. Possible cancer risks haven't been fully characterised. Adults who were treated for precocious puberty in this way have mixed feelings about it, and there is a group of "Lupron survivors" trying to highlight the risks involved and talking about chronic health problems they have which they believe are related to the treatment.

When used in gender-nonconforming children these hormones are often presented as being entirely benign and reversible. "Benign" is not really true, given what's known. Reversible, yes, if the treatment is withdrawn. However what seems to happen in practice is that virtually 100% of children given puberty blockers then progress to cross-sex hormones (as opposed to anything from 60% to 90% simply changing their minds if they're supported without hormone treatment). This carries a 100% guaranteed sterility rate, and indeed is a recipe for very much reduced or absent sexual feelings in adulthood. If the body never goes through puberty in the natal sex, the sex of the gonads, all sorts of things that should happen don't.

So just saying "bridging hormones", if this is what they mean, is downplaying the seriousness quite a lot.
 
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All those references to "your preferred clinician" are talking about their in-house clinicians you can choose between.


That isn't apparent from their documentation, but even if it was, so what. It is still preliminary counseling.

It's a private, for-profit clinic, and the only things they want to know before you get a appointment are:

https://gendercare.co.uk/how-to-use-gendercare.shtml



That's all they want to know for you to apply for an appointment.

Whether you get one or not is going to begin with their assessment of your responses to those questions.
 
All those references to "your preferred clinician" are talking about their in-house clinicians you can choose between.

It's a private, for-profit clinic, and the only things they want to know before you get a appointment are:

https://gendercare.co.uk/how-to-use-gendercare.shtml


"If you are making a new patient enquiry
It is helpful to us if the new patient themselves provides the following information:"​

I really don't see what is wrong with that? Seems some basic information to me that would cover most of the areas they deal with.
 
"Informed consent" means that the doctor who is going to write the prescriptions has satisfied themselves that the patient has taken the time and done the work to fully understand the steps they are about to take.

This can be demonstrated by a number of routes, but generally involve quite a bit of counseling and some evidence of commitment to the transition, like already having spent some period of presenting full-time as the target gender.

My original point was that this:

ASSESSMENTS and COUNSELING and TAKING IT SLOW and QUESTIONING and ENCOURAGING INTROSPECTION and all that stuff you seem to think everyone wants to abolish, are STANDARD.

...it's not standard everywhere.
 
"If you are making a new patient enquiry
It is helpful to us if the new patient themselves provides the following information:"​

I really don't see what is wrong with that? Seems some basic information to me that would cover most of the areas they deal with.

Nothing is wrong with it. I'm just showing that they don't have a prerequisite amount of counseling needed to enter their system.
 
That isn't apparent from their documentation, but even if it was, so what. It is still preliminary counseling.





That's all they want to know for you to apply for an appointment.

Whether you get one or not is going to begin with their assessment of your responses to those questions.

It is still the most basic form of counseling, but it really can be one counseling appointment for the dx and then to hormones the next month.

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgende..._emailed_dr_leniham_at_gendercare_3_days_ago/
 
Where are you seeing that on their site?
https://gendercare.co.uk/faq.shtml#timescales
How long before I'm started on hormones?
It depends on your particular situation and clinician. If, for example, your blood results are normal and Dr Lorimer agrees to "bridging hormones", you could be started on hormones a little over a month after your appointment with him.

He's listed here as one of the ones to choose for "I want to see someone who can diagnose gender dysphoria."
https://gendercare.co.uk/how-to-use-gendercare.shtml
 
https://gendercare.co.uk/faq.shtml#timescales


He's listed here as one of the ones to choose for "I want to see someone who can diagnose gender dysphoria."
https://gendercare.co.uk/how-to-use-gendercare.shtml

It's still unclear what the timescales and appointments required are to get as far as the 'as soon as a month after this' point, and the guy you're talking about had been closed to new patients and was just in June reopening with a backlog of 200-odd inquiries. It's a private service but whenever its patients are also working with the NHS they are on its timescale. At any rate, this doesn't sound like "young people getting hormones on their parents' insurance without their knowledge" type stuff.

"I’d assumed that the knowledge and experience I’d built up in my decades of NHS work would inform my private practice but I was surprised at how much I learned in the opposite direction. I hadn’t realised, for example, that those individuals I saw in the GIC were the lucky ones who’d made it that far, whose persistence, stamina or luck had got them through the early hurdles of the referral pathway. In my GenderCare clinic, I saw those people who’d yet to reach a GIC, whose GPs had stalled, dismissed or, in one memorable case, informed them that no such service had ever existed in the UK."
 

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