TERFs crash London Pride

Posting someone's instagram pic to twitter to be gawked at by strangers is kind of a violation of privacy, isn't it?
 
Rolfe said:
I can only hope this is some sort of a hoax. Surely it must be?
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Rolfe said:
Really, I'm going to do the classic "do your own research" thing here.
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I’m shocked, shocked, that if someone wants to make a johnson they gotta cut a big ol shonk of meat offa somewhere else to make it out of.

Seriously though there’s a very straightforward 2013 paper on then-current techniques that’s in the first page of results for a shot in the dark google search like ‘arm scar transgender’ so this looks like a textbook JAQ :/

If it’s your opinion that it’s so ugly it shouldn’t be allowed or something, you can just say so. It’s certainly true that the donor sites usually heal up pretty ugly, and the built member isn’t much to look at. And the complication rates are high. (They’d be lower but nobody, apparently, wants to go to the trouble of getting phalloplasty if they can’t pee out of it.) It’s the same when they do it for regular ol’ cis male guys who lose their first one and decide they’d be happier with something than nothing. Who’s stepping up to protect those guys from themselves/butchering plastic surgeons?
 
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Lithrael said:
Yeah, when they were first figuring out how to do nose and chin jobs they looked pretty raunchy too. The disrespect in that twitter thread is palpable. These are grown-ass trans men being called ‘poor girls’ by a bunch of internet tourists.

There are no barriers whatsoever to understanding the scars, drawbacks and potential failures of phalloplasty surgery. Lots of FTM folks never go for it cause it’s not great. What’s your point? It looks gross to you so it’s a horrible tragedy?
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It is gross. It's a complete negation of the "do no harm" principle. Whether it should ever be acceptable to perpetrate that degree of violence on a healthy body, even in cases of extreme dysphoria, isn't something I want to comment on. But in the context of the enormous rise in girls identifying as boys - which is what we're discussing at the moment, and the announcement of a parliamentary inquiry into this - it's a pretty relevant observation.

And what do they get for it? A sausage of skin and fatty tissue precariously grafted on to the front of their crotch. No erectile tissue (OK a balloon), no sexual sensation, no ejaculation and no orgasm. And no fertility. It's grotesque. And, as you say, the potential for complete failure even of an allograft is not negligible. Not to mention never again being able to wear a t-shirt without displaying the tell-tale disfiguration of the forearm.

This should be seen as a treatment of last resort. Not something to celebrate. Not something a mother promises her tomboy daughter who has decided she wants to be a boy (as an awful lot of girls who grew up to be perfectly average women have done in their time). But now it's a business opportunity for surgeons who display portfolios of mutilated women's bodies to entice further custom.

Who are these girls and young women who are putting themselves on this path in dramatically increasing numbers? All born with blue brains and the gender fairy got it wrong when she "assigned" them as female because they had, you know, an actual vulva? In that case, what happened to those girls who were born 20 years earlier? Where are the middle-aged women saying, if only that opportunity had been available when I was young, I'd have been able to live as my authentic self? There aren't any. What there are, are many middle-aged and older women saying, my God, if that had been available when I was young I'd have totally gone for it and it would have been the worst mistake of my life.

Is something causing "male brains" to be born into female bodies in increasing numbers these days? No there isn't, because this "pink and blue brains" thing is a pile of horse-hockey. What there has always been, are girls and young women rebelling against the gender stereotypes forced upon them, whether it's riding side-saddle or wearing corsets or "behaving like a lady". And adolescent girls who hate their developing female bodies and wish they could get rid of the breasts and curves they've suddenly developed. This is getting worse as porn-soaked boys ogle these girls in class, put mobile phones up their skirts, and text salacious images to them.

This is a tragedy, and it's not something you treat by celebrating the "transman" coming out as "his authentic self" and flooding the internet with advertising copy for "top and bottom surgery". When disturbed, self-harming young women are described as "grown-ass (trans)men" and heart-felt pity is mocked as disrespect, we're all in a bad place.
 
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Lithrael said:
I’m shocked, shocked, that if someone wants to make a johnson they gotta cut a big ol shonk of meat offa somewhere else to make it out of.

Seriously though there’s a very straightforward 2013 paper on then-current techniques that’s in the first page of results for a shot in the dark google search like ‘arm scar transgender’ so this looks like a textbook JAQ :/

If it’s your opinion that it’s so ugly it shouldn’t be allowed or something, you can just say so. It’s certainly true that the donor sites usually heal up pretty ugly, and the built member isn’t much to look at. And the complication rates are high. (They’d be lower but nobody, apparently, wants to go to the trouble of getting phalloplasty if they can’t pee out of it.) It’s the same when they do it for regular ol’ cis male guys who lose their first one and decide they’d be happier with something than nothing. Who’s stepping up to protect those guys from themselves/butchering plastic surgeons?
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Well, you know, I thought it was real, but then pretty much everything I post here is howled down by the trans-ally brigade telling me I'm wrong, so I thought I'd give it the benefit of the doubt. I hoped it was an unusually bad example.

Reparative plastic surgery after a dreadful accident is often less than entirely satisfactory, we know that. "Better than it was before" and "better than nothing" often have to be the criteria. Carrying out the same surgery as an elective procedure on a healthy, unmutilated body is an entirely different matter. Nobody needs to be protecting David Lopez-Jackson from a "butchering plastic surgeon". If a surgeon were to carry out similar procedures on a normal child it would be a different matter though.

This is the route being mapped out for hugely increasing numbers of girls and young women who don't conform to the norms of femininity, who may be lesbian, and who are often going through a phase of hating their developing female bodies. It's a form of homophobia. Don't be a butch lesbian, they're not cool, be a transman and everyone will say how brave and authentic you are.

History will look back on this in the same light as the fad for pushing lobotomy surgery on disturbed and distressed people in the early 20th century.
 
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Rolfe said:
This is the route being mapped out for hugely increasing numbers of girls and young women who don't conform to the norms of femininity, who may be lesbian, and who are often going through a phase of hating their developing female bodies. It's a form of homophobia. Don't be a butch lesbian, they're not cool, be a transman and everyone will say how brave and authentic you are.
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Still no shred of evidence that tomboys and effeminate boys are 'pushed' by the 'trans cult' to undergo reassignment surgery, I suppose?
Still just your 'common sense conclusion'?
 
"Mermaids" are just hosting glitter parties and putting up stalls with material to attract children because they want to give the kids a fun day out, I suppose.

Are you really completely unaware that the trans activist lobby is strongly pressurising health providers and legislators to ensure that affirmation is seen as the only acceptable response to a declaration of trans identity? Watchful waiting, supporting the child while giving space for them to grow out of it, is now vilified as "conversion therapy".

It's child abuse. It's Munchhausen's by proxy, in a number of cases. Not only are the children feted as brave and special and given parties for coming out as trans, some parents revel in the attention their "special" child is attracting. It's an atmosphere where children who may be developing second thoughts find it extremely difficult to row back in. It's changing what was about an 80% incidence of children deciding they were happy to be their birth sex after all, into an almost complete persistence rate. Great news for the plastic surgeons and the providers of synthetic hormones of course.

Puberty blockers are marketed - off-label - as a harmless way to postpone puberty and give the child time to decide. In reality there are powerful drugs with seriously detrimental side-effects on everything from bone density to IQ. And while it's true that normal puberty will resume if they're discontinued, in practice it appears that virtually 100% of children put on puberty blockers will progress to taking cross-sex hormones. This is a one-way trip to complete sterility, as the gonads never mature. When it's known from experience with previous generations that 80% to 90% of these children, left alone, will simply grow out of it.

If you think the trans activist lobby isn't pushing as hard as it can for all gender-questioning children to be given puberty blockers, you're living in cloud cuckoo land. It's horrific.
 
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kellyb said:
Posting someone's instagram pic to twitter to be gawked at by strangers is kind of a violation of privacy, isn't it?
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It was an absolutely public account until about ten minutes ago. I saw a lot of very disturbing pictures, in particular an arm some way down the line that looked like the best that could be salvaged from a horrific degloving injury.

Then when I tried to go back to check something, the account had been set to private. But it wasn't private at all until this morning. One shouldn't post things publicly on the internet one doesn't want anyone on the internet to see.
 
Rolfe said:
It's a form of homophobia. Don't be a butch lesbian, they're not cool, be a transman and everyone will say how brave and authentic you are.
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I do think homophobia is at the heart of at least some of it, but when you're talking about transmen over 20, at least, it's more of a "able to blend in with wider conservative society" thing, I deeply suspect. They can be married, have children, go to their kids' sporting events and birthday parties, etc, and because they look like a "normal" couple, they're (the couple and family) accepted. I really hope I'm wrong about that, because the idea that the "problem" of/for women who would otherwise be butch lesbians (where it's just societal bigotry that's the only problem) is "solved" by mutilative surgery and harmful medications for the women, is extremely sad to me.
 
Rolfe said:
One shouldn't post things publicly on the internet one doesn't want anyone on the internet to see.
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Of course it's stupid. It's also still unkind to be part of the "case in point" crowd making that the rule, too.
 
Porpoise of Life said:
Still no shred of evidence that tomboys and effeminate boys are 'pushed' by the 'trans cult' to undergo reassignment surgery, I suppose?
Still just your 'common sense conclusion'?
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Exactly just like they are groomed by the gays to become gay.

I think we can all agree that trans people existing is exactly as bad as letting gay people be around children.
 
Rolfe said:
"Mermaids" are just hosting glitter parties and putting up stalls with material to attract children because they want to give the kids a fun day out, I suppose.
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This is as much a ploy to force cisgendered but non-conforming kids into a cult of sex reassignment surgery, as similar initiatives for gay kids are an evil ploy to convert innocent straight kids to a sinful lifestyle of debauchery...
 
ponderingturtle said:
Exactly just like they are groomed by the gays to become gay.

I think we can all agree that trans people existing is exactly as bad as letting gay people be around children.
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You can still hear people saying things like "where have all these gays come from, we never used to have so many.."
 
kellyb said:
I do think homophobia is at the heart of at least some of it, but when you're talking about transmen over 20, at least, it's more of a "able to blend in with wider conservative society" thing, I deeply suspect. They can be married, have children, go to their kids' sporting events and birthday parties, etc, and because they look like a "normal" couple, they're (the couple and family) accepted. I really hope I'm wrong about that, because the idea that the "problem" of/for women who would otherwise be butch lesbians (where it's just societal bigotry that's the only problem) is "solved" by mutilative surgery and harmful medications for the women, is extremely sad to me.
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Older than that. The brain is still maturing until about 25. Young women in their early 20s are a demographic of particular concern.

Attempts to give women a facsimile of a male body go back quite a long way, into the 1970s I believe. I'm not passing judgement on the desirability of doing this at the end of a long process designed to ensure that only women who are absolutely irrevocable in their determination, aware of the risks and the limitations, and old enough to make a mature decision end up on the operating table. The issue at hand is the very large numbers of adolescent girls and very young women who are now heading down this route, and of course the increasing numbers who are trying to row back and expressing regret.

I'm not a lesbian so I'm passing on second-hand information, but it appears that lesbians are becoming increasingly alarmed by what's going on, which they see as lesbian conversion therapy. Where are all the young butch lesbians these days? Gone to transmen every one. To the point where there are no role models for the even younger ones. It's great to be trans, everybody praises you. It's horrible to be a butch lesbian.

Add to that the distress of lesbian women who feel they are being pressurised to have relationships with AGP men with fully male bodies who describe themselves as lesbians (with "lady dick"), and the lesbian community is fairly alarmed. One one hand younger lesbians are transitioning to become men, and on the other hand their all-female sexuality is being invaded by male-bodied "transwomen". I can see why they're worried.
 
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What a sheltered life you lead, no young butch lesbians? Oh dear. There are as many as ever as far as I can see. None of the lesbians I know have ever experienced this "erasure of lesbians" young or old, never been suggested (outside the usual hatred) to them that they are really "men trapped in the body of a woman". Try saying that to some of my friends and you'll wish you'd never opened you mouth.
 
Darat said:
Transmen? I was talking about young "butch" lesbians as Rolfe describes them.
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We're talking about both, and whether or not they're possibly often the same people/demographic neurologically who expresses their gender in different ways depending on environment or time period.
You say you see/"know" as many young butch lesbians as always, and I'm wondering how many "assigned female at birth" transmen of the same age you know, as well.
 
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kellyb said:
We're talking about both. You say you see/"know" as many young butch lesbians as always, and I'm wondering how many "assigned female at birth" transmen of the same age you know, as well.
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Well Rolfe wasn't but that aside I don't have any friends these days that are trans and only know a few in my wider social circle. Have of course talked to many, and socialised with many more and had a couple of friends over the last 35 years or so that were trans.

My point was that butch lesbians exist as much as ever, as an aside I do think there has been a perception of "feminisation" of the "butch" lesbian caused by wider social changes.
 
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