Telekinesiologist now at JREF!

[TheTelekinesiologist]

Interesting. Nearly every one of the skeptics (those most often accused of being closed-minded) come here to learn. Perhaps to teach some, but definitely to learn.

Do you think there's anything you can learn here?

Or how about this:

Imagine I come up with what I consider to be a great recipe one day while fiddling in my kitchen. Further imagine that I have no culinary arts training, have never read a recipe book, don't know the names of any spices beyond salt and pepper, but really liked the dish I threw together from leftovers my mom put in the fridge.

Do you think it would be presumptuous of me to go to a conference where The Iron Chef, The Naked Chef, Julia Childs, Emeril Lagasse, and a host of other renowned chefs are meeting, storm the stage, grab the microphone and say: "You guys have just GOT to try this!"

Don't you think it likely they know all about it, and that in the real world of culinary arts it's a pretty basic recipe that won't pass muster at any successful restaurant?

That is, in effect, what you have done here. Many people on this forum have dealt with the paper-spinning-on-needle thing many times. We have dealt with many other things. Many of us are actually experts in the relevant fields.

Calm down. Step back. Take a breath. Relook what you're doing. And take advantage of the education offered here as opposed to presuming you are the only one, with your limited experience and knowledge, who can offer it.


It would be selfish if you didn't listen to the learned responses. You are teetering on that edge.

If Mr. Newton had shown his maths to experts who subsequently showed him the errors he had overlooked, he would have withdrawn his claims.

I think garette's right guys. I think I'm gonna step down and think this over. Sorry if I let any of you down. Plus, I'm not even of age to be any significace in this world, not even a forum.

 

[Fnord]

Hey there, TKist,

What do you think about my suggestions for a protocol?

And Fnord has offered to help you design a test that rules out other possible factors as well. Will you be willing to accept his or my (or both of our) help, design a protocol, and test it?

Haven't you noticed? TK has been largely ignoring any posts that would provide him with any credible means for proving his claims, yet he attacks those of us who have attacked him personally.

He obviously does not want to prove his assertions; he seems more inclined towards pimping for attention.

Here's a protocol, which is based upon Mr. Randi's own first rule governing the JREF Challenge (© 2006 James Randi Educational Foundation), for defining and validating a paranormal claim:

State clearly:

1) What powers or abilities you have.
2) The limits of your powers or abilities.
3) The conditions under which your powers or abilities operate.
4) The conditions under which your powers or abilities are inhibited.

Also, be prepared to provide the identities of three educated working professionals who have witnessed the claimed paranormal phenomenon.

The term "educated working professionals" is defined as people who have received an acredited college-level degree in a field such as: Physician, Nurse, Therapist, Research, Psychology, Law, Education, or any other such degreed professional considered to be a "professional observer" under the laws of your state or province.

In this age of CGI, Lightworks, Apple's Final Cut Pro, and other video editing software, video recordings are inadmissable as evidence to support your claim.

Watch now, TK will either ignore this post, post some whiney excuses as to why he can not comply, or attack me for daring to challenge his claim.

-Fnord of Dyscordia-

 

[fishbait]

Hmm, I wonder what I'd be learning in school now if Mr.Newton kept all his discoveries to himself...

It's obvious from your excellent grasp of physics, test protocols, and the scientific method that you are indeed justified in comparing yourself to Isaac Newton!

Not to mention your spoon bending abilities!

I don't think you understand what the JREF is all about nor do you realize the level of education, experience, and intelligence that many members of this board possess. We've seen this kind of nonsense time and again. Without proper evidence, we are not impressed.

 

[Loss Leader]

Here's another YouTube telekinisiologist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmxeoyt-LuM

Total time from when she started to try to move the paper to when it moved: 28 seconds. I imagine the camera would have kept filming as long as it took.

TK: For my money, you have got to stop experimenting with paper sitting on pins. Here's why: The paper on pin thing is easy to purposefully fake and open to self-delusion. In fact, it's so open to purposeful or accidental fraud that the opinion of the audience is going to be one of disbelief right from the start.

Let's assume you are telekinetic. Let's assume the force is, in actual fact, with you. If you demonstrate it using paper on pins, most considered opinions will be that you also are a fraud.

And why create elaborate safeties to try to minimize fraud when you could just do something else that doesn't require such work.

Don't set yourself up to be lumped in with hucksters, magicians and liars. Demonstrate your talents in a way that cannot easily be faked.

I am glad you are trying to self-test. Most people don't. Please go further and abandon experiments that can be easily faked.

 

[Fnord]

I'm not even of age to be any significace in this world, not even a forum.

... and there's his whiney excuse!

Did I call that one, or what?

-Fnord of Dyscordia-

Disclaimer: The whiney excuse was posted while I was still typing my own post. Thus, it only seems that I cheated. I do have precognitive powers! Really, I do!

I also have the title deed to a certain bridge in Brooklyn, (in the original Klingon) if anyone is interested...

 

[Reno]

Too young? I think not: Emily Rosa

 

[TheTelekinesiologist]

Haven't you noticed? TK has been largely ignoring any posts that would provide him with any credible means for proving his claims, yet he attacks those of us who have attacked him personally.

He obviously does not want to prove his assertions; he seems more inclined towards pimping for attention.

Here's a protocol, which is based upon Mr. Randi's own first rule governing the JREF Challenge (© 2006 James Randi Educational Foundation), for defining and validating a paranormal claim:

1) What powers or abilities you have.
2) The limits of your powers or abilities.
3) The conditions under which your powers or abilities operate.
4) The conditions under which your powers or abilities are inhibited.


Watch now, TK will either ignore this post, post some whiney excuses as to why he can not comply, or attack me for daring to challenge his claim.

-Fnord of Dyscordia-

sorry if I didn't spell it out for you fnord:

1)telekinesis
2)limited when under stress, cannot penetrate through glass well.
3)no conditions, always working
4)doesn't work well through a medium(glass, etc)

people who have seen me: Father - college
Uncle - college
Uncle - University

There ya go. It doesn't even matter. No one's gonna listen to a teenager.
I should have thought of that before joining right?

 

[Spindrift]

sorry if I didn't spell it out for you fnord:

1)telekinesis
2)limited when under stress, cannot penetrate through glass well.
3)no conditions, always working
4)doesn't work well through a medium(glass, etc)

people who have seen me: Father - college
Uncle - college
Uncle - University

There ya go. It doesn't even matter. No one's gonna listen to a teenager.
I should have thought of that before joining right?

We're more than willing to listen, you're the one who won't listen.

I seriously hope that you investigate your 'power' a little more in depth and with at least a touch of skepticism. I'm sorry to tell you that your power is nothing unusual and if you would just listen to the evidence instead of your wishful thinking you will come to the same conclusion.

 

[TheTelekinesiologist]

Total time from when she started to try to move the paper to when it moved: 28 seconds. I imagine the camera would have kept filming as long as it took.

TK: For my money, you have got to stop experimenting with paper sitting on pins. Here's why: The paper on pin thing is easy to purposefully fake and open to self-delusion. In fact, it's so open to purposeful or accidental fraud that the opinion of the audience is going to be one of disbelief right from the start.

Let's assume you are telekinetic. Let's assume the force is, in actual fact, with you. If you demonstrate it using paper on pins, most considered opinions will be that you also are a fraud.

And why create elaborate safeties to try to minimize fraud when you could just do something else that doesn't require such work.

Don't set yourself up to be lumped in with hucksters, magicians and liars. Demonstrate your talents in a way that cannot easily be faked.

I am glad you are trying to self-test. Most people don't. Please go further and abandon experiments that can be easily faked.

I will but you guy's gotta give me some time. I'll check in every once in a while. Don't get pissed off if I take a while to reply.

 

[Darth Rotor]

sorry if I didn't spell it out for you fnord:

1)telekinesis
2)limited when under stress, cannot penetrate through glass well.
3)no conditions, always working
4)doesn't work well through a medium(glass, etc)

people who have seen me: Father - college
Uncle - college
Uncle - University

There ya go. It doesn't even matter. No one's gonna listen to a teenager.
I should have thought of that before joining right?

I'd like to encourage you to keep on working on your skill, and don't spend time posting here until you have seen, to your own satisfaction, the skill growing with use and practice. To give you a physical analogy, when one first lifts weights, one can press XX pounds. It takes patience and reps, but eventually by gradually increasing resistance over time, one can press XX+90 pounds.

And so on.

So, develop your talent, and then take up the offers of assistance offered to you by the people who live near you. You will note that a number of the offers are genuine and sincere, people of good heart who'd like to see the first confirmed display of real Telekenesis. THink of how impressed the first few people were who saw Wilbur and Orville fly their heavier than air aircraft.

The helpful folks don't want to put you down, they'd like to see the real thing actually done. There have been so many false claims in the past that it is very difficult to get enthusiastic about a new claim, even though for you this is very new.

Best of luck. Think positive. It may be that your talent won't go any further, and that you've peaked with paper on a pin. You won't know until you have put a lot of work into it.

DR

 

[Fnord]

sorry if I didn't spell it out for you fnord:

1)telekinesis
2)limited when under stress, cannot penetrate through glass well.
3)no conditions, always working
4)doesn't work well through a medium(glass, etc)

people who have seen me: Father - college
Uncle - college
Uncle - University

There ya go. It doesn't even matter. No one's gonna listen to a teenager.
I should have thought of that before joining right?

Finally! You you still need to express more details. (BTW: the last three sentences of your post are obvious Appeals to Misery. Poor, poor you...)

1) As stated.
2) Any limits on time or distance?
3) Do you have to be conscious? Fed or fasting? In a trance state?
4) Will it work of you have something over your mouth and nose to deflect your breath away from the target? Can you perform with only your eyes exposed to the target (e.g., mouth and nose under the edge of a table)? Do you need to be able to breathe on the target for your power to work?

(This next part is a little more difficult, as it could compromize the privacy of your relatives.)

What are the actual credentials of your father and uncles? Which college(s)? What degrees? What professions? Any other licenses or hobbies?

And stop whining about being only a child! Your Appeals to Emotion and Misery won't work here, as most of us have studied philosophy, and it's requisite Fallacies of Reason and Appeal, as either a major, a minor, or a series of college-level classes, as required for our degrees!

Earn our respect, not our contempt .. or pity.

-Fnord of Dyscordia-

 

[Reno]

No one's gonna listen to a teenager.
I should have thought of that before joining right?

Read the post I made just before you posted this one.

 

[DangerousBeliefs]

1)telekinesis
2)limited when under stress, cannot penetrate through glass well.
3)no conditions, always working
4)doesn't work well through a medium(glass, etc)

Doesn't work well through glass because that limits air movement.

The one I setup was highly sensitive to drafts and currents. The rest (at any distance) is wishful thinking.

Telekinesiologist, you seem like an ok kid but your just not getting that psi wheels are quite easily to move without any TK.

Now look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSTsHcqc31E&NR

Here's a guy which is quite a good magician (and sounds like one) and he definitely makes you want to BELIEVE that TK is real but he's clearly using a string. Just replay the last few seconds of the video over and over and you'll see he right hand movements are not normal at the very end. He goes backwards and then forwards and then picks up the glass. That's because he needs to detact the string before he grabs the glass.

And that's pretty much the best evidence out there for TK... paper on a wheel or folks doing magic tricks.

Don't you think if it was real that maybe... just maybe more folks would be doing it.

The example I like to use is Las Vegas. If folks could just slighly influence dice rolls in craps, they could live their lives in luxury. Even if they didn't know they had the power. But somehow Vegas is able to keep paying it's bills.

 

[Kaylee]

Well, TK. I'm glad you dropped by. Until this thread, I wasn't aware of the various fake TK/psi demos (the pin wheel being the most common) and how they can be done without any psi at all.

Psi Wheels Without Psi

Drat, I wish I'd seen this TK FAQ before,

Hi CLD, I'm familiar with Keith Mayes website. Crabby Scotsman (see his forum section for proof about his temperment) with a badly designed web site, but he does have some good info.

This web page is worth pointing out also:
http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Results Summary.html

On this web page, he gives step by step instructions on how to simulate TK effects with two experiments:

1) A psi wheel (the small piece of paper balanced on a pin) that is moved from heat waves which comes from from 6 coffee mugs filled with hot water.

2) A plastic straw balanced on a plastic water bottle that moves because of static electricity.

 

[CLD]

Ye Gads, it's epidemic. Just search "psychokinesis" and "telekinesis" on YouTube. I had no idea there were so many spoonbenders, keybenders, straw-movers, paper-spinners, pen levitationists, and other assorted pranksters out there trolling for the gullible. No wonder the kid is confused.

 

[Fnord]

Ye Gads, it's epidemic. Just search "psychokinesis" and "telekinesis" on YouTube. I had no idea there were so many spoonbenders, keybenders, straw-movers, paper-spinners, pen levitationists, and other assorted pranksters out there trolling for the gullible. No wonder the kid is confused.

Yeah ... children are always seeking something, and there's a seeker born every minute. Part of the time I spent under the tutelage of my cousin the witch involved constructing these "Psi Wheels" out of various materials. We sold these for between 10 and 25 dollars each. They were made from plastic bottle caps, silk pins, and folded paper, plastic or metal foil. The intrinsic value of these materials was 1/100th what we sold them for. I still have one, somewhere.

"When I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful,
A miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical..."

("The Logical Song" lyrics by Supertramp, from the album "Breakfast In America. © 2006 Rick Davies Productions, Inc. All rights reserved.)

-Fnord of Dyscordia-

 

[steenkh]

And stop whining about being only a child! Your Appeals to Emotion and Misery won't work here, as most of us have studied philosophy, and it's requisite Fallacies of Reason and Appeal, as either a major, a minor, or a series of college-level classes, as required for our degrees!

Earn our respect, not our contempt .. or pity.

Fnord - and others - please stop harassing a young believer coming to our site. It is really depressing that some members here welcome comments from believers in such a rude fashion. This is what gives our forum such a bad reputation elsewhere.

In actuality, we can explain to TK why his methods lead to self-delusion without resorting to such methods.

Some other member here even told TK to stop wasting our time. Which would effectively mean that all woo-woos should stop posting here, because they are always wasting our time. Those members should perhaps rather spend their time on other threads.

 

[Garrette]

I think garette's right guys. I think I'm gonna step down and think this over. Sorry if I let any of you down. Plus, I'm not even of age to be any significace in this world, not even a forum.

Thank you for acknowledging my post, but I was not trying to convince you to go away or even to stop believing.

I was trying to point you in the direction of learning.

I am among those who think you are honest.

I am also among those who think you are mistaken.

But I am definitely among those who think the best thing is for you to keep learning.

If your power is real, accepting the advice and assistance of those on this thread will help you reveal it, and I will be among the first to stand up, congratulate you, say "Wow," and begin to reshape my own thinking.

If your power is not real, accepting the advice and assistance of thsoe on this thread will hehlp you reveal it, and you will be well on your way to becoming an excellent critical thinker.

There is no fault with believing, no fault with asking, and no fault with sharing. There is fault only in refusing to listen and in refusing to accept the possibility that you are wrong.

Please stick around and let us know how your further tests go.

 

[JLam]

Fnord - and others - please stop harassing a young believer coming to our site. It is really depressing that some members here welcome comments from believers in such a rude fashion. This is what gives our forum such a bad reputation elsewhere.

In actuality, we can explain to TK why his methods lead to self-delusion without resorting to such methods.

Some other member here even told TK to stop wasting our time. Which would effectively mean that all woo-woos should stop posting here, because they are always wasting our time. Those members should perhaps rather spend their time on other threads.

Agreed.

Granted, most of the time we all sit around, agree with one another, and pat each other on the back, but the whole reason this forum exists is to educate.

This kid is not trying to perpetrate a fraud. He's simply confused about what he's experiencing. I think he's making a sincere effort to learn. Calling him a fraud does a disservice to this forum.

 

[hipparchia]

Ohhhh, I'm too old for a jedi training. Besides, married. And you know married jedi will be up to no good... But in my young days, we had the cloud donuting fad.