Teen Parents/ Parenting

what confuses me is if I can assault my child why can't I assault my wife?

any thoughts?

Certainly: It's the faults of your wife's parents. They obviously didn't beat her enough as a child, otherwise she would be better behaved now. I assume the technique becomes less effective, if not ineffective, later in life unless carried correctly in the formative years.

If you assaulted your wife it would case her necessary harm, since a good trashing simply no longer provides the utility you hope for.

Even though women and children are clearly not real people as such, we don't want to cause them any unnecessary grief, do we?
 
I don't think this POV is going to get a lot of traction.

For one thing I believe your views on slavery are a bit sugar-coated. Yes, there were societies where the concept did not exactly take the form of the brutal, hopeless chattel slavery common in the Americas, but I don't know that those were particularly predominant. I suspect that might be a case of cherry picking.

Other examples are also easy to point out. War for the purpose of material profit has also been a norm in human history, and the institution of international efforts to discourage it is a very recent development which actually flies in the face of what was generally considered to be a righteous cause, at least by the victors. Remember "Manifest Destiny"? That wasn't very long ago, historically speaking, and was a rather mild interpretation of the 'might makes right' philosophy even for its time.

In and of itself, merely being an historical "norm" does not confer any sort of sanction or affirmation, or even any hint about utility. This is what social progress is all about. Religious intolerance has also been a norm for most of human history, but I doubt many people will try and justify it that way or argue that it must therefore some be beneficial or even harmless.

Yeah, it's a bit of a stretch to defend the general proposition that if we've always done it that way, it must be good. If it were the topic of the OP, I might be inclined to try to defend the general proposition that if we've always done it that way, it must serve a purpose, but then I might find myself in a situation where I'm defending religious intolerance, and I really don't want to do that.

So, my point was that this is the norm, an awful lot of us experienced it, and didn't think we were harmed. It's hard to grasp that if it were such an awful thing, even many of the "victims" would say that it's a good idea.

After having children of my own, there has been only one thing that I can think of that has changed dramatically from my preconceived notions about how children "ought" to be raised. I have gained a thorough appreciation of the full implications of the fact that children don't have an "off" switch. It's all very easy to sit back and say what ought to be done in any given situation, but there are times when parents really have stuff that has to get done and they have a child who thinks that it is far more important that the parent follow the child's agenda, instead of vice-versa. In those circumstances, if the worst thing that happens to the child is that it experiences a certain degree of temporary pain and/or fear, I'm not going to call someone a bad parent, even if I think there was a better way to handle the situation. It would be all very well to talk about what a perfect person would do given an optimal situation and plenty of time to deal with the circumstances. Sadly, parents don't have time to call a committee meeting of child care experts to discuss how best to get Johnny to school on time. Sometimes, a threat of pain might be the best you can think of, and the threat will not be effective unless it is occasionally carried out.
 
Do you think children from countries that forbid corporal punishment for children are more prone to be ill-adjusted than children from countries that allow it?
Difficult to say how much a law quite recently agreed by a few politicians actually has changed de facto reality in people´s homes.

Also ill-adjusted is a vague concept, modern youth is becoming difficult and outright dangerous to handle for teachers in upper classes of elementary school.
 
Yeah, it's a bit of a stretch to defend the general proposition that if we've always done it that way, it must be good. If it were the topic of the OP, I might be inclined to try to defend the general proposition that if we've always done it that way, it must serve a purpose, but then I might find myself in a situation where I'm defending religious intolerance, and I really don't want to do that.

So, my point was that this is the norm, an awful lot of us experienced it, and didn't think we were harmed. It's hard to grasp that if it were such an awful thing, even many of the "victims" would say that it's a good idea.

After having children of my own, there has been only one thing that I can think of that has changed dramatically from my preconceived notions about how children "ought" to be raised. I have gained a thorough appreciation of the full implications of the fact that children don't have an "off" switch. It's all very easy to sit back and say what ought to be done in any given situation, but there are times when parents really have stuff that has to get done and they have a child who thinks that it is far more important that the parent follow the child's agenda, instead of vice-versa. In those circumstances, if the worst thing that happens to the child is that it experiences a certain degree of temporary pain and/or fear, I'm not going to call someone a bad parent, even if I think there was a better way to handle the situation. It would be all very well to talk about what a perfect person would do given an optimal situation and plenty of time to deal with the circumstances. Sadly, parents don't have time to call a committee meeting of child care experts to discuss how best to get Johnny to school on time. Sometimes, a threat of pain might be the best you can think of, and the threat will not be effective unless it is occasionally carried out.


Grown-ups don't have an "off switch" either. What circumstances make it okay to give them a swat when you're in a hurry and haven't got time to explain things?

Somehow I suspect that this would not be a management technique which would find acceptance in most work environments.

Children are not suffering from some sort of diminished capacity which precludes communication. They simply have less data to work with. If you find yourself resorting to pain as a communication device, most especially if you are in a hurry, it reflects more on your own ability to express yourself than it does on the child's ability to comprehend.
 
Yeah, it's a bit of a stretch to defend the general proposition that if we've always done it that way, it must be good. If it were the topic of the OP, I might be inclined to try to defend the general proposition that if we've always done it that way, it must serve a purpose, but then I might find myself in a situation where I'm defending religious intolerance, and I really don't want to do that.

So, my point was that this is the norm, an awful lot of us experienced it, and didn't think we were harmed. It's hard to grasp that if it were such an awful thing, even many of the "victims" would say that it's a good idea.

After having children of my own, there has been only one thing that I can think of that has changed dramatically from my preconceived notions about how children "ought" to be raised. I have gained a thorough appreciation of the full implications of the fact that children don't have an "off" switch. It's all very easy to sit back and say what ought to be done in any given situation, but there are times when parents really have stuff that has to get done and they have a child who thinks that it is far more important that the parent follow the child's agenda, instead of vice-versa. In those circumstances, if the worst thing that happens to the child is that it experiences a certain degree of temporary pain and/or fear, I'm not going to call someone a bad parent, even if I think there was a better way to handle the situation. It would be all very well to talk about what a perfect person would do given an optimal situation and plenty of time to deal with the circumstances. Sadly, parents don't have time to call a committee meeting of child care experts to discuss how best to get Johnny to school on time. Sometimes, a threat of pain might be the best you can think of, and the threat will not be effective unless it is occasionally carried out.

Anytime someone refers to a child as an "it" and how "it" experiences pain/fear, it always makes me crack up for some reason. :D
 
Are you really saying that 13 year-olds would be happier if they could work menial jobs and breed as early as possible? How would they be able to fulfill their goals if this was the case. (Unless of course, their goals included raising a houseful of kids on minimum wage?)

No, im only saying that its extremely hard for them to get by if they did get pregnant, im not saying, go out and get pregnant at the age of 13. Also I believe you should be able to work a good job when you hit 13 years old. I was offered a $26/hr job at 16, but my parents wouldnt fill out the form, now im left to joining the Army.
 
So you see them as possibly fit to parent in the future. Ok, but when they are hitting their kid they most certainly are not.

So your saying its wrong to punish your child? That makes them spoiled, and obnoxious. The reason most dont agree with hitting your child, is becuase they have been hit by their parents, and sometimes for senceless reasons I admit, and turn around saying its wrong, "patting them on their back" will so help them =p. Let me ask you, have you seen how most kids are with their parents doing nothing as they act up?
 
For one thing, some of your premises might merit further investigation.

This subject came up somewhat tangentially in another thread awhile back. Out of curiosity I did some 'quick 'n dirty' research, since I had a volume of family genealogy within reach.

It covers my father's family from 1640, when the first in the line from England settled in Newbury, MA, through 1882. I picked a dozen or so of the earliest marriages in the book at random and tallied the ages of the brides. I'm not going to do it over again right now, but as memory serves (and somewhat to my surprise) only one or two were even under eighteen, and the median age was closer to the mid-twenties than the 'teens. A few were closer to thirty for their first marriage.

I repeated the exercise for the mid and late 1700s with similar results.

These were all pretty much salt-of-the-earth type farmers and a few merchants, sailors and soldiers ... as typical a cross-section of colonial America as could be asked for.

The child bride was not quite as common as we are prone to believe these days.

Can I get a copy of some sort? The way our education system goes here in New York, Teachers tell us, we test on it, and we get b the course. Every world history teacher Ive had all tell about the same general thing, when we move on to women throughout history, we are taught they normally are married in their teens, and have kids by 16-17 years old.
 
So your saying its wrong to punish your child?

False dichotomy. I've punished my children plenty without hitting them. Making them explain to me what they did wrong, why it was wrong, and helping decide what the consequences should be is a lot more effective.

As someone upthread said, hitting is a failure of the parent.
 
Last edited:
Anyone know where the troll author of the OP has got to?

Well if you must know, I drove my pregnant GF to the hospital for an ultrasound, shes 15 btw and very happy, then I drove her mother and twin sister to the airport(60-70 miles away), stopped at wollyworld the opressive retailer, picked up some reeds at a music store for my clarinet, got something to eat, and went to take a nap. Now whats been bugging me is what is a troll? Also I started this thread for opinions, and Information. For someone to provide me with some BETTER info then what ive been told, and experienced. Im 18 =p not a college professor, or old 40-50 year person. as stated in the OP, "Opinions?Explanations?anything?
 
All the teenage parents I've seen have been more or less the most stupid people you could imagine. I mean how stupid can you be to not abort the damn thing when you've got studies, no work and that you are going to have to live on welfare? Thank god I've not seen many teen parents...

I don't care how society looked back then. We live and deal with the reality we're living in now and, unless society is soon going to regress back 600 or 800 years, teenage parenting is obviously a negative thing.

Again, Thank god that two guys can't, except in disturbing fiction, make each other pregnant no matter how hard they try.
 
False dichotomy. I've punished my children plenty without hitting them. Making them explain to me what they did wrong, why it was wrong, and helping decide what the consequences should be is a lot more effective.

As someone upthread said, hitting is a failure of the parent.

Well thats the way I was raised, and I turned out fine, but when I see a child running around knocking over church alters, name calling people, and giving an all out fit, that calls for disiplin, that child has become rotten, and will want its way, and think THAT is normal =p. Which I think thats our politions think. If they want something, they do it, and noone is happy about it. Person in point, the monkey-in-a-suit, George Bush.
 
Well if you must know, I drove my pregnant GF to the hospital for an ultrasound, shes 15 btw and very happy, then I drove her mother and twin sister to the airport(60-70 miles away), stopped at wollyworld the opressive retailer, picked up some reeds at a music store for my clarinet, got something to eat, and went to take a nap. Now whats been bugging me is what is a troll? Also I started this thread for opinions, and Information. For someone to provide me with some BETTER info then what ive been told, and experienced. Im 18 =p not a college professor, or old 40-50 year person. as stated in the OP, "Opinions?Explanations?anything?

18 and 15? I hope you're not in Virginia, you'd be in some considerable trouble.
 
All the teenage parents I've seen have been more or less the most stupid people you could imagine.

Not true entirely, though I agree some are... really out there. I am a teen parent, I constantly ask questions, and im normally reading some type of book or watching an educational channel. I do have plans for my life, and im happy with my life. Though I resorted to the Army, Im doing a Medical feild, also planning on going to a college to get myself a degree to become a PA. Sound like a "stupid teenage parent"? I have know many of my friends with this same incident become successful.
 
18 and 15? I hope you're not in Virginia, you'd be in some considerable trouble.

Sometimes I think the "location" under my name doesnt help people figure where im at =p. Search "Fort Drum" in google. FYI for the rest reading this, I was 17 when she got prego =p. She turns 16 very soon, I just turned 18.
 
Not true entirely, though I agree some are... really out there. I am a teen parent, I constantly ask questions, and im normally reading some type of book or watching an educational channel. I do have plans for my life, and im happy with my life. Though I resorted to the Army, Im doing a Medical feild, also planning on going to a college to get myself a degree to become a PA. Sound like a "stupid teenage parent"? I have know many of my friends with this same incident become successful.

Delete, never mind, I shan't waste good advice on the rude.
 
Well thats the way I was raised, and I turned out fine, but when I see a child running around knocking over church alters, name calling people, and giving an all out fit, that calls for disiplin, that child has become rotten, and will want its way, and think THAT is normal
That's the false dichotomy. Those are not the only two possible states, they are simply two different ways to fail on opposite sides of a continuum. My children were frequently praised by strangers for their politeness, good behaviour, and social grace and "hitting" was not part of our disciplinary measures.

That you cannot think of anything but "hitting" and "chaos" is a failure of your own imagination, not an objective fact about parenting.

ETA: And a fantasic practical demonstration of why teenagers are generally not mature enough or educated enough to be effective parents for children in today's world.

What do you think your #1 responsibility is as a parent?

Which I think thats our politions think. If they want something, they do it, and noone is happy about it. Person in point, the monkey-in-a-suit, George Bush.
What year do you think this is?
 
Last edited:
18 and 15?.

Also, who cares about a 3 year differnce? Does a 40 year old date a 18 year old? yes. Though some arguments arise from that, normally nothing happens to them. Im not saying an 18 year old should date a 8 year old, or a 20 year old date a 14 year old. There are limits, and I believe within the 3 year range is perfectly fine.
 

Back
Top Bottom