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Teacher fired for being domestic abuse victim.

Sorry about forgetting the ETA. I assumed that you could read at the bottom that it had been edited.

You exaggerated the statement to situations with "everyone" rather than what I actually said. And I do stand by my opinion that you did not read the actual article before commenting. You simply argued against me.

And I will also continue to point out when it is obvious to me that people are not reading that actual articles. I will also point out when people respond by generalizing a specific statement which you can clearly see in reading your comment is EXACTLY what you did.

I think if she had the wherewithall to call the school and tell them he might show up there, this indicates that she knew he was a threat to others. And the fact that she didn't quit after he did this is a completely stupid and selfish act IMO.

Do you send your reasoning out to the CIA for torture, or do you do it yourself? This (along with your other posts in this thread) is some of the most amazing blame-the-victim argument I've ever seen around these parts.
 
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I think Foolmewunz has already done a fine job of shredding your ridiculous arguments and I have nothing further to add, other than to say that I'm sure this thread will go on long beyond the point where it's been beaten to death.
 
The only reason they had to fire her is that she didn't have the decency to quit.

She should have quit because of the criminal actions of her husband? The law should protect the innocent and threatened, as it is doing with the arrest of the husband. And will again, hopefully, when she's successful with her wrongful dismissal suit.
 
Do you have kids? What do you expect the school to do? Sometimes the liberal leaning on this site is so incredibly over the top that I can really after a while understand why Sarah Palin is appealing to the other side.

Do you have kids? She should have quit and took her kids out of the school. Any decent person would not put all those other children at risk because your husband is a nut job.

I do feel for the woman but jeez what's to stop him from trying to get revenge on her by going in and shooting up a school?

Sorry but it's a private school not a public school. If it was a public school she'd probably be moved to an internal position outside of a school.

The whole post above is ridiculous. She called the school and warned them he might show up even if she and her kids weren't there. AND HE DID.

The only reason they had to fire her is that she didn't have the decency to quit.

Also I'm going to point out yet again another example on this site where it is obvious the poster didn't READ the article before commenting on it.

And no it doesn't mean everyone it means any decent person in this position would not put innocent children at risk because of her.


You keep using those words ... Are you sure you know what they mean?

As for what I'd expect the school to do? I'd start with showing support for someone who has given 14 years of her life to them and finds herself in a tough situation.

That is the DECENT thing to do.
 
Dropping a well-known song lyric is not plagiarism. Do you really think I was trying to pass it off as my own?

I've heard things Shemp, I've got my one good eye on you...

And if you think I was serious, I should have posted an emoticon ;)
 
You keep using those words ... Are you sure you know what they mean?

As for what I'd expect the school to do? I'd start with showing support for someone who has given 14 years of her life to them and finds herself in a tough situation.

That is the DECENT thing to do.

Exactly. I know Catholics are not too good at saying "we were wrong", but I hope fairness prevails and she gets her job back.
 
Exactly. I know Catholics are not too good at saying "we were wrong", but I hope fairness prevails and she gets her job back.

In a situation like this in California, she can go to the State Labor Board and file a complaint w/o difficulty, and the board is vigorous in it's pursuit of wrongful termination.

I can already hear Gloria Allred's press conference announcing the civil suit.
 
In a situation like this in California, she can go to the State Labor Board and file a complaint w/o difficulty, and the board is vigorous in it's pursuit of wrongful termination.

I can already hear Gloria Allred's press conference announcing the civil suit.

According to the article and video the school is expected to you an ecclesiastical exemption clause that invalidates a wrongful termination suit.

The church has had centuries to come up with legal loopholes to get away with anything they want.
 
According to the article and video the school is expected to you an ecclesiastical exemption clause that invalidates a wrongful termination suit.

The church has had centuries to come up with legal loopholes to get away with anything they want.

I don't know the situation in California, but religious schools are customarily (and probably reasonably) allowed to duscriminate on religious grounds, but not others. This would be a slam dunk unfair dismiss case here, even in a religious school.
 
Sorry but it's a private school not a public school. If it was a public school she'd probably be moved to an internal position outside of a school.

The whole post above is ridiculous. She called the school and warned them he might show up even if she and her kids weren't there. AND HE DID.
Fair enough, but doesn't this indicate that he's willing to show up at the school regardless of her presence?

The only reason they had to fire her is that she didn't have the decency to quit.
Also I'm going to point out yet again another example on this site where it is obvious the poster didn't READ the article before commenting on it.

And no it doesn't mean everyone it means any decent person in this position would not put innocent children at risk because of her.
I take issue with the highlighted statements because you seem to be implying that the husband's actions are somehow dictated by the teacher. As a victim of domestic abuse, she clearly has no control over his actions. The problem lies with the deranged ex-husband, and it's up to law enforcement to make sure he stays behind bars.
 
According to the article and video the school is expected to you an ecclesiastical exemption clause that invalidates a wrongful termination suit.

The church has had centuries to come up with legal loopholes to get away with anything they want.

I'm betting that in today's environment, their "Ministerial Exception” will be worthless in a case where the fired individual was a victim of another individual's criminal attention.

Was she a teacher who stripped or hooked on the side, or was involved in some other morally questionable (under church teachings) activities the school would be within their rights to terminate, but afaik in California, even with the "at will" employment environment for non-collective bargaining unit employees, termination for criminal victimization or potential violent threat from a third party won't stand as reasonable cause for termination.
 
I don't know the situation in California, but religious schools are customarily (and probably reasonably) allowed to duscriminate on religious grounds, but not others. This would be a slam dunk unfair dismiss case here, even in a religious school.

From her lawyer:

Charlesworth’s attorney Kenneth Hoyt, who intends to file a lawsuit on her behalf, said it may be an uphill climb because of something called "Ministerial Exception.” As part of her duties Charlesworth taught religion, and even though it was a small part of her daily lesson plan, there's legal precedence showing she can be fired without cause just like a priest or pastor.
 
Fair enough, but doesn't this indicate that he's willing to show up at the school regardless of her presence?


I take issue with the highlighted statements because you seem to be implying that the husband's actions are somehow dictated by the teacher. As a victim of domestic abuse, she clearly has no control over his actions. The problem lies with the deranged ex-husband, and it's up to law enforcement to make sure he stays behind bars.

^Bingo^
 
From her lawyer:

Well that just sucks. One of my (atheist) daughters taught at a Catholic school in London and had a small RI role. To think that she would have been treated akin to a pastor in California is simply appalling.

If the law doesn't work, I hope the adverse publicity will.
 
Do you have kids? What do you expect the school to do? Sometimes the liberal leaning on this site is so incredibly over the top that I can really after a while understand why Sarah Palin is appealing to the other side.

Do you have kids? She should have quit and took her kids out of the school. Any decent person would not put all those other children at risk because your husband is a nut job.

I do feel for the woman but jeez what's to stop him from trying to get revenge on her by going in and shooting up a school?

Unless she's wealthy, moving may not be an option. Jobs aren't that easy to come and she has to feed her kids. He won't be able to do much damage while he's in prison. I'm also pretty sure her kids are already traumatized and dragging them from pillar to post isn't helping them at all.

The cops are all over this guy. Now that this story has hit the news big time, I doubt he's going to get much of a break in the judicial system.

Most of all, nothing can protect us humans from things that happen. Accidents, crazy people, angry people, terrorists, can and will strike again somewhere. All we can do is hope it's not us and mourn for the dead.
 
Sorry about forgetting the ETA. I assumed that you could read at the bottom that it had been edited.
Not while I was typing a response to the version without the two closing paragraphs. (Note my previous post.)

You exaggerated the statement to situations with "everyone" rather than what I actually said.
No. I exrapolated. That's why I referred to it, for clarity, as a "slippery slope". I presume you are familiar with the expression. (Waits while several pedants come in with their dog-eared copies of Skepticism For Beginners to pick nits.)

And I do stand by my opinion that you did not read the actual article before commenting. You simply argued against me.

And I will also continue to point out when it is obvious to me that people are not reading that actual articles. I will also point out when people respond by generalizing a specific statement which you can clearly see in reading your comment is EXACTLY what you did.

Not surprisingly, you're wrong.... yet again. You attribute motive that isn't there to people's posts all the time. You accuse people of not understanding what you wrote. You now elevate that to not having read a rather short article or watched a three minute video? What's the point. We are NOT, I repeat, arguing the facts of the case. We are discussing whether or not we agree with the actions of the officials. I do not. I'm marking you down for "agree".

If it makes you happy to believe I didn't read the article, then believe away. If you think there's something in there that makes your subjective opinion more correct then my subjective opinion, please cite it. Otherwise, you're just trying to muddy the waters with a worthless accusation. The content of the article is really not germane to the discussion we're now having. It's the background material; the case study as it were.

I think if she had the wherewithall to call the school and tell them he might show up there, this indicates that she knew he was a threat to others. And the fact that she didn't quit after he did this is a completely stupid and selfish act IMO.

Victim blaming. I ask you again, and you'll likely dodge the question again: Where does this slippery slope lead us? You do know the statistics on domestic violence, I take it? Any teacher, any care-giver, anyone involved in a job where civilians could be harmed by a vengeful spouse abuser... they'd all have to quite their jobs for fear of an outside chance of some sort of additional misbehavior by the spouse. This is going to mean a lot of resignations from workplaces. She couldn't say for certain the guy was going to be violent or harm the kids just as the guy up the block here (a teacher) can't be sure that his wife, who threw a potted plant at his head last month, isn't going over to his school to fling vegetation in earthenware at the kids so we're left with determining what the actual threat is.

And domestic abusers being barcrap crazy, who's to say that when he gets out of jail later this month he doesn't go over and toss a grenade into the lunch room?
 
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-catholic-teacher-20130614,0,1149775.story

Not many more details, but a few from the LA Times article. I think her final quotation is the most damning. She did everything we always tell domestic abuse victims to do... and this is the upshot.

Huh. Actually, that story strikes me as being substantially less damning.

First, the school put her on paid leave. Which totally makes sense. And is pretty generous.

Then, when it becomes clear that the issue will not have any kind of timely resolution, that's when the school decides not to continue her employment. It's not her fault that a problem beyond her control puts the school at risk. But it is her problem. The school administration has more people to worry about than just her. And it's not the school's responsibility to accept the consequences of the personal problems of everyone--or anyone--they might happen to employ.

I mean, "you hired me, now you have to put up with the domestic abuser that ignores court orders and stalks me everywhere--including your place of business, where parents have entrusted you with their children".

It's hardly a compelling argument. It's not the school's fault--and frankly, it's not the school's problem--that the wheels of justice grind exceedingly slow for this woman. They did what they could, and then cut their losses. If anything, this is the abusive husband's fault.

ETA: Also, I don't think that domestic abuse victims are actually ever told to assert an entitlement to free association with people or organizations who don't want to also associate with their abuser.
 
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