Taco Bell sued

[tesscaline]

88% is pre-cooked, 36% is cooked as tested.

The fat and some water renders out, thereby decreasing the "beef" content.

Wow. I was just going to mentally tune your nonsense out, but this last comment has earned you a spot on my ignore list. That is simply the most mathematically and physically impossible statement i have ever heard. You obviously understand nothing about what the percentages you're citing mean, or what actually happens during the cooking process.

If i have something that's 80% one ingredient, and 20% another ingredient, and i remove some of the stuff that makes up the 20% part, i am INCREASING the overall percentage of the 80% ingredient. Not reducing it.

You obviously have no business commenting on this subject further, so, I definitely won't be responding to you further. Period.

 

[tesscaline]

I find it highly curious that the said person who claimed to test the meat, will not release information on where they tested the meat, how they tested the meat and how they arrived at their "30%" figure.

and of course we have to question their "chain of custody" in this. did they "add" more stuff to the meat once they left the restaurant?


We dont know because the person who filed the law suit has not provided details on how they arrived at their figure.

Yeah, see, until that information is provided... I simply can't see much of this conversation being useful.

I am interested to know about what Taco Bell claims though -- when they say their filling is made up of 88% beef, do they mean that 88% of the filling is meat? Or do they mean that they use 88% lean to make the filling, without commenting about how much of the filling that actually makes up? Because there is actually a difference between the two... One that is highly relevant.

 

[Arus808]

I am interested to know about what Taco Bell claims though -- when they say their filling is made up of 88% beef, do they mean that 88% of the filling is meat?

I haven't read their official statement (will later), but I'm assuming as pertaining to their ingredients for the meat filling that the 88% meat means that the meat filling is 88% meat. The 12% is all the rest of the ingredients that they've listed.

Or do they mean that they use 88% lean to make the filling, without commenting about how much of the filling that actually makes up? Because there is actually a difference between the two... One that is highly relevant.

actually this is where I think a confusion is being made: the percentage of lean meat doesn't equal to the percentage of that meat found in a product.

 

[Arus808]

woo.

You've obviously not cooked professionally. This a Food Network woo if I've ever seen it. Foodie snobs and their "palettes" make cooks sick.

sorry, but I dont cook professionally (never claimed that I do).

However, I have a family that owns several restaurants, its own meat processing company, and we have some fine cooks and chefs as well.

If you think that white bread and oats taste the same when cooked in something, you seriously have a flawed taste palette.

Food Network? Please. I don't even watch those channels. I've had enough of cooking drama between the four chefs in my family to last a lifetime.

 

[Furcifer]

So far, I've seen very little, and what little there was has gotten steamrolled by someone who obviously can't read pushing some weird agenda that a restaurant has to abide by laws in regards to raw food packaging...

It isn't an agenda.

The lawsuit will have to deal with public perception under the California Unfair and Deceptive Business Practices law.

That means if Taco Bell calls it's product "seasoned ground beef" and people expect they are buying "seasoned ground beef" they may be liable.

That's why the definition of "ground beef" and the laws that apply to labeling it are an important part of this case.

 

[not daSkeptic]

If you think that white bread and oats taste the same when cooked in something, you seriously have a flawed taste palette.

Sterno. Kills your taste buds.

 

[Furcifer]

If you think that white bread and oats taste the same when cooked in something, you seriously have a flawed taste palette.

woo

You can't tell. Ask any cook in the restaurant if they've ever had to change something like the starch base in a meatball, and if anyone noticed and they will laugh their asses off. Nobody can tell, it's complete woo. You would probably fail in a blind test and you certainly wouldn't ever know if you weren't told in a restaurant.

I've substituted veal for pork and had so called Foodies with "refined palettes" not know the difference. People who talk about their palettes don't have one, they just imagine they do.

 

[Furcifer]

If i have something that's 80% one ingredient, and 20% another ingredient, and i remove some of the stuff that makes up the 20% part, i am INCREASING the overall percentage of the 80% ingredient. Not reducing it.

You obviously have no business commenting on this subject further, so, I definitely won't be responding to you further. Period.

Wow, you claim to have read this thread but you don't know that "beef" is fat and meat?

The 20% is binder, it doesn't render out. Please don't comment any further, I implore you.

 

[Emet]

Yeah, see, until that information is provided... I simply can't see much of this conversation being useful.

I am interested to know about what Taco Bell claims though -- when they say their filling is made up of 88% beef, do they mean that 88% of the filling is meat? Or do they mean that they use 88% lean to make the filling, without commenting about how much of the filling that actually makes up? Because there is actually a difference between the two... One that is highly relevant.

Here is their official statement:

"The lawsuit is bogus and filled with completely inaccurate facts. Our beef is 100% USDA inspected, just like the quality beef you would buy in a supermarket and prepare in your home. It then is slow-cooked and simmered with proprietary seasonings and spices to provide Taco Bell's signature taste and texture. Our seasoned beef recipe contains 88% quality USDA-inspected beef and 12% seasonings, spices, water and other ingredients that provide taste, texture and moisture. The lawyers got their facts wrong. We take this attack on our quality very seriously and plan to take legal action against them for making false statements about our products. There is no basis in fact or reality for this suit and we will vigorously defend the quality of our products from frivolous and misleading claims such as this."

What is in Taco Bell's recipe for seasoned beef?
"We're cooking with a proprietary recipe to give our seasoned beef flavor and texture, just like you would with any recipe you cook at home.

"For example, when you make chili, meatloaf or meatballs, you add your own recipe of seasoning and spices to give the beef flavor and texture, otherwise, it would taste just like unseasoned ground beef. We do the same thing with our recipe for seasoned beef.

"Our recipe for seasoned beef includes ingredients you'd find in your home or in the supermarket aisle today:

88% USDA-inspected quality beef
3-5% water for moisture
3-5% spices (including salt, chili pepper, onion powder, tomato powder, sugar, garlic powder, cocoa powder and a proprietary blend of Mexican spices and natural flavors).
3-5% oats, starch, sugar, yeast, citric acid, and other ingredients that contribute to the quality of our product.
"Our seasoned beef contains no "extenders" to add volume, as some might use. For more information about our ingredients go to http://www.tacobell.com."

Greg Creed
President and Chief Concept Officer
Taco Bell Corp.

http://www.tacobell.com/company/newsreleasearticle/Statement-Regarding-Class-Action-Lawsuit

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Wow... Umm... Okay, so i've been following this thread for a while now, waiting for the discussion to turn to anything relevant to the actual situation at hand.

So far, I've seen very little, and what little there was has gotten steamrolled by someone who obviously can't read pushing some weird agenda that a restaurant has to abide by laws in regards to raw food packaging...

Now that I've decided to ignore that inanity, would anyone care to discuss the actual case?

Personally, I find the subject interesting. Why would there be such a vast difference between what Taco Bell says the actual meat content of their filling is, and what a consumer says? I mean, the difference between 36% and 88% is fairly freaking huge. What might cause that sort of discrepancy? Has there been any testing done by unaffiliated third parties? If so, on what sort of sample sizes? Or, is it possible that there's confusion about what the percentages are referring to? Could it be that Taco Bell is saying they use 88% lean ground beef to make the filling, but the percentage that makes up of the filling is actually different?

Personally, i'm just having trouble reconciling how these two sets of numbers came about in regards to the (supposedly) same product...

I tried to address this with my comments regarding the ingredients list for the seasoned ground beef.

It's hard to believe there's only 38% ground beef if the 2nd ingredient by volume is water, 3rd is seasoning, and we're not talking about a soup being used to fill tacos.

The math of the Plaintiff just doesn't match the ingredients list. So if the ingredients list is accurate, the Plaintiff has nothing. They'll have to prove that the ground beef TB uses is not 100% ground beef - which isn't TB's problem, it's the meatpacker who labeled it as 100% ground beef.

 

[Uncayimmy]

I really hate to jump into this thread, but am I the only who noticed that Taco Bell listed sugar twice? It's in both the spices and the oats sections.

The fundamental question is whether it's misleading to describe it simply as seasoned ground beef in their advertising. If it only contained the first and third items, I'd say definitely yes [ETA: I mean no, not misleading]. If you include the water, I'd say maybe. Once you start adding starches, it enters the misleading category as far as I'm concerned, especially since as consumers we have expectations for the meanings of ground beef and seasonings.

Stated another way, if another company advertised their tacos as seasoned ground beef, and it really only contained ground beef and the seasonings listed above, how as a consumer could I differentiate the two based on advertising? I'd have to go to the fine print.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

There's no such thing as a taste palette? Ooookay.

 

[tesscaline]

sorry, but I dont cook professionally (never claimed that I do).

For the record, not only have i cooked professionally, but i'm classically trained. There's nothing woo being said here except the nonsense 3bodyproblem is spouting.

 

[tesscaline]

Here is their official statement:



http://www.tacobell.com/company/newsreleasearticle/Statement-Regarding-Class-Action-Lawsuit

Thank you for that.

Given that statement, I simply cannot see how anyone could test it and end up with a number anywhere near 36%. I'll be really curious to see the details of the testing, when/if it finally comes to light.

 

[Furcifer]

Stated another way, if another company advertised their tacos as seasoned ground beef, and it really only contained ground beef and the seasonings listed above, how as a consumer could I differentiate the two based on advertising? I'd have to go to the fine print.

And this is where I believe Taco Bell might be in trouble. Their "ground beef" does not match the USDA definition or the FDA definition of "ground beef". Their "seasoning" goes well beyond what any reasonable person would consider seasoning as it contains fillers and extenders which of course goes against FDA and USDA regulations.

The only way this could possibly work out for Taco Bell is the assumption that customers are too stupid to know what "ground beef" actually is and therefore aren't deliberately misleading them.

I find that offensive. It's one thing to go to Taco Bell and make fun of their "ground meat" as being anything but, and it's another for a company to insist "No it really is ground beef, you just don't know any better".

 

[BobTheDonkey]

And this is where I believe Taco Bell might be in trouble. Their "ground beef" does not match the USDA definition or the FDA definition of "ground beef". Their "seasoning" goes well beyond what any reasonable person would consider seasoning as it contains fillers and extenders which of course goes against FDA and USDA regulations.

The only way this could possibly work out for Taco Bell is the assumption that customers are too stupid to know what "ground beef" actually is and therefore aren't deliberately misleading them.

I find that offensive. It's one thing to go to Taco Bell and make fun of their "ground meat" as being anything but, and it's another for a company to insist "No it really is ground beef, you just don't know any better".

Except that, as you've been shown, the regulations you've found do not apply to Taco Bell as they only apply to raw meat. Taco Bell does not serve raw meat, nor does Taco Bell produce raw meat. Therefore, those regulations do not apply.

 

[Furcifer]

There's no such thing as a taste palette? Ooookay.

For "Foodies" and people claiming a refined palette it's woo.

As long as you have texture and aroma there's no way your "palette" can distinguish a cooked starch in a meatball. It doesn't matter if it's a bread or a rice or a oat based starch.

You see this on the Food Network all the time. They add bacon or garlic to something like a meatball, then say "You can use regular breads crumbs but I like to lightly toast them first, it's adds a nice nutty flavour to the final dish".

You could add belly button lint and toe jam to a meatball with garlic or bacon and nobody could taste it.

That's why Taco Bell seasons the crap out of their taco filling. The reason they add oats isn't because of flavour, it's texture.

 

[Furcifer]

Except that, as you've been shown, the regulations you've found do not apply to Taco Bell as they only apply to raw meat. Taco Bell does not serve raw meat, nor does Taco Bell produce raw meat. Therefore, those regulations do not apply.

*sigh

You think people can be served whatever Taco Bell wants, and they can be told whatever they choose because they're a restaurant?

If they say they serve "ground beef" and I buy that "ground beef" I have a reasonable expectation I'm getting "ground beef". Not taco meat filling.

Why would you think it's OK to lie because they are restaurant?

 

[NewtonTrino]

The crazy thing here is that, one occasion, I've had a chance to partake of a taco bell taco. In fact a volcano taco to be exact. Now if anyone knows me well they know that I'm a connoisseur of tasty beef. I just had a prime porterhouse for dinner in fact. I know beef. There is no way in hell that taco bell beef is only 36% meat. Now I'm not saying that their product is great, but it's definitely got meat in it. Especially when you consider the fact that when you cook the meat and drain it the fat will melt out making the ground beef portion a smaller percentage then before cooking.

 

[tesscaline]

There's no such thing as a taste palette? Ooookay.

There is, actually... I found the most wonderful website a while back...

http://www.tastescience.com/abouttaste3.html

What is taste sensitivity?

Taste sensitivity refers to the intensity with which you perceive tastes and flavors. People with high taste sensitivity experience tastes, and usually smells, too, as being very strong. They are also able to distinguish individual flavors in a mixture very well. For people with low taste sensitivity, tastes, smells, and flavors are not as strong, and they come as a "package deal." Taste senstivity depends on multiple factors, inculding the nature and number of taste receptors on taste bud cells, and the number of taste buds a person has.

It's really a fascinating subject. Anyone who claims that "refined palates" don't exist, is basically full of BS though