Taco Bell sued

[Furcifer]

If Taco bell uses the recipe they have claimed (88% of the recipe is 100% ground beef) then I don't have a problem with the way they are advertising it.

Oh I do . Not with Taco Bell, but with the whole industry. 100% means "all" to me. The last 3 boxes of breaded chicken strips were all 100% breast meat on the front of the box. I get them home, cooked them, sit down to eat them, take a bite and get chicken jello. Yah, they're made with 100% breast meat, but they aren't 100% breast meat.

If you don't pay $20 a box forget about 100% meat.

 

[Furcifer]

Even if your contention that "seasoned" can only include the seasonings you want it to include, Taco Bell doesn't sell "seasoned ground beef". So there's no problem there.

This is just semantics and I hope Taco Bell gets nailed for it. They may not sell "seasoned ground beef", but they sure as heck tell you you're getting "seasoned ground beef".

 

[mortimer]

This is just semantics and I hope Taco Bell gets nailed for it. They may not sell "seasoned ground beef", but they sure as heck tell you you're getting "seasoned ground beef".

So when you order a taco from Taco Bell, you're expecting to get 100% ground beef? Bet you're pretty disappointed when it comes in a taco shell with lettuce and cheese.

 

[Furcifer]

So when you order a taco from Taco Bell, you're expecting to get 100% ground beef? Bet you're pretty disappointed when it comes in a taco shell with lettuce and cheese.

Yes. No.

If you were trying to prove you don't understand you've succeeded.

 

[slingblade]

I'm going to make tacos.

I go to the store, and I buy a pound of ground beef. Now, myself, I prefer 80/20. But let's not be confusing the numbers here; in this case, I'll buy 70/30. That's 100% ground beef, processed, labeled, and packed according to the USDA regs. Clear on that part?

Okay, now I go to the seasoning aisle. I pick up a pack of taco seasonings that contains, let's say, exactly the same ingredients as Taco Bell's seasoning mix.

I take this home. I get out a skillet, and begin to brown the 100% ground beef--the one-pound 70/30 mix that I bought. I read the seasoning packet, and it tells me that when the meat is browned, I should drain off the fat, then add the contents of this packet and one cup of water to the ground beef, and simmer for 15 minutes.

After I have done this, do I now have a skillet with seasoned ground beef in it, or not?

 

[Furcifer]

After I have done this, do I now have a skillet with seasoned ground beef in it, or not?

Yep.

 

[slingblade]

Yep.

As far as I can tell, and to the best of my knowledge, that is exactly what Taco Bell is putting in their tacos and burritos.

 

[mortimer]

Yes. No.

If you were trying to prove you don't understand you've succeeded.

I completely understand. You want your taco to be 100% ground beef. Possibly with seasoning. You just don't like the particular seasonings Taco Bell uses. That's fine. But it's not grounds for a lawsuit.

 

[Furcifer]

As far as I can tell, and to the best of my knowledge, that is exactly what Taco Bell is putting in their tacos and burritos.

I worked at Boston Pizza and they have "seasoned ground beef" on the menu. It's a 5lb tube regular ground meat, cooked and seasoned with Ortega. Exactly the same as you would make at home.

Taco Bell sells their own "Home Original" taco seasoning. So you get some ground beef, add one of those and tell me if you get the same thing as you would at the restaurant.

 

[Furcifer]

I completely understand. You want your taco to be 100% ground beef. Possibly with seasoning. You just don't like the particular seasonings Taco Bell uses. That's fine. But it's not grounds for a lawsuit.

No, I'm saying it's pretty obvious what they sell at the restaurant isn't what everyone knows as "seasoned ground beef". Since "ground beef" is properly defined under the USDA regulations, and they don't sell "seasoned ground beef" they shouldn't advertise it as "seasoned ground beef".

It's the same as Velveeta. Sure it's cheese, but it's not "cheese". There's nothing worse than ordering a plate of nachos and expecting "cheese" and getting Velveeta or nacho cheese.

 

[not daSkeptic]

It's the same as Velveeta. Sure it's cheese, but it's not "cheese". There's nothing worse than ordering a plate of nachos and expecting "cheese" and getting Velveeta or nacho cheese.

Does Kraft claim that Velveeta is cheese? From what I can tell they say it's "cheese product."

 

[NewtonTrino]

As far as I can tell, and to the best of my knowledge, that is exactly what Taco Bell is putting in their tacos and burritos.

See this is what I thought too. Now if you're telling me that the beef they start with has fillers or something then yes, I would consider that fishy.

So the question to me is do they use 100% ground beef + seasonings.

OR

Is it some sort of beef with filler in it that is then seasoned.

If it's the first one and they basically make it in a similar manner to home cooked then I don't have a problem with that. The second one to me would me they couldn't advertise that they use 100% ground beef.

Thoughts?

 

[NewtonTrino]

Does Kraft claim that Velveeta is cheese? From what I can tell they say it's "cheese product."

If someone tries to pass velveeta off as cheese they should be called out. Nasty stuff.

 

[Furcifer]

Does Kraft claim that Velveeta is cheese? From what I can tell they say it's "cheese product."

I'm pretty sure it's "processed cheese" on the package. The stuff that comes in a silver wrapper, it's like a solid and not in a jar.

 

[slingblade]

I worked at Boston Pizza and they have "seasoned ground beef" on the menu. It's a 5lb tube regular ground meat, cooked and seasoned with Ortega. Exactly the same as you would make at home.

Taco Bell sells their own "Home Original" taco seasoning. So you get some ground beef, add one of those and tell me if you get the same thing as you would at the restaurant.

I have done so, many times. It is close to the restaurant product, but you can tell a difference.

Except, I would not expect to get exactly the same thing in the store-bought packet of seasonings as I would get in the Tyson-made seasoning blend used by Taco Bell. That's why I phrased my hypothetical as I did: "using the same seasoning blend as Taco Bell."

The reason is that I am not preparing that item to be held at temperature in a restaurant for a length of time, nor am I selling that item to be taken home and consumed by someone else. Those differences often mean that a restaurant uses more preservatives than I would, and uses at least some binding agents or thickeners in the seasoning mix because it's likely that some water will occasionally have to be added to the mixture being held at temperature in the steam table. It tends to dry out, you see.

Now, as far as I can tell, this suit is asserting that Taco Bell (or Tyson on behalf of Taco Bell, really) is adding far more than just a little thickener, a bit of binding agent, to the ground beef and the seasonings. The suit is claiming that most of what's in there is actually oat product, and very little meat was ever involved.

I don't think that's true. I think their taco filling starts out as at least a 70/30 mix of 100% ground beef, from which the fat is drained, and to which seasoning and water is added during cooking, just like I'd cook it on my stove. Period. You know, once that beef is cooked, some of it by volume is rendered away: the fat. So what began as 100% raw beef is slightly less than that, after cooking, and that's true no matter how you cook the meat or what you do with it next. Part of it gets removed by cooking.

You take a look in my skillet, and some of the beef I put in there is gone, because I drained off the rendered fat. I replaced it with water and seasonings. I don't know how to measure such things, but I'd say I have at least 88% beef in there now, if not less. My mixture, after all, was 70/30, the 30 being fat. I didn't cook it all off, but I did get a lot of it. Maybe...12% or more?

So that's how 100% raw beef becomes 88% of the recipe of seasoned ground beef. The other 12% are the seasonings and the water that were added to cook it, after the fats were drained away.

 

[Furcifer]

See this is what I thought too. Now if you're telling me that the beef they start with has fillers or something then yes, I would consider that fishy.

So the question to me is do they use 100% ground beef + seasonings.

OR

Is it some sort of beef with filler in it that is then seasoned.

If it's the first one and they basically make it in a similar manner to home cooked then I don't have a problem with that. The second one to me would me they couldn't advertise that they use 100% ground beef.

Thoughts?

If it was the first one the label from the packers would say "ground beef, water, seasoning,....".

You know you're getting a better product. The regulations for "ground beef" are higher than something just called "beef" or with "beef" in it. I don't think many people realize that.

 

[Babbylonian]

If it was the first one the label from the packers would say "ground beef, water, seasoning,....".

You know you're getting a better product. The regulations for "ground beef" are higher than something just called "beef" or with "beef" in it. I don't think many people realize that.

I think people recognize that the label from the packers has **** all to do with the lawsuit in question...something I'm sure all the parties to the lawsuit recognize (they're suing Taco Bell for how they prepare their food, not a meat packer for how they label their products for sale) but you haven't.

 

[tesscaline]

Second, does it imply anything? That could be answered by doing a survey asking something like this:

Which one(s) of the following would you expect to constitute seasoned ground beef if mentioned in an ad for a food item in a restaurant?

a) ground beef, chili powder, salt, pepper, cumin
b) ground beef, water, chili powder, salt, pepper, cumin
c) ground beef, water, oats, yeast, chili powder, salt, pepper, cumin

If you don't get a substantial number including (c) then you've got misleading advertising on your hands.

That statement is just plain false. Just because someone has a unique recipe, that doesn't mean they're being misleading. Instead, it just might mean that they're innovative, or that they have a patent, or that their just WEIRD... I mean, most recipes for taco seasoning doesn't have cinnamon in it. But I have a friend who uses cinnamon in hers. Does that mean she's being "deceptive" when she calls her seasoning mix "taco seasoning"? Of course it doesn't.

I believe there are some trained cooks here. I'm not one, but I cook and bake a lot. While I would add water to ground beef when making taco meat, I would not add any starches. If I did, it would probably be corn starch. What concerns me is that the combination of the oats, yeast, water and heat results in expansion. Personally, I've never added yeast to anything I didn't want to rise at least a wee bit (maybe that's my lack of training). To me that implies that Taco Bell is, in fact, using a "filler" to make it look like you're getting more ground beef than you really are.

I happen to be one of those classically trained chefs. Your assumption here is flawed.

1) Oats on their own do not rise just by adding yeast. You have to get oat FLOUR, add water at the right temperature, and yeast, and let it sit. Just mixing the raw ingredients without going through the right process won't yield any "rising". Thus, no filler action happening. Note, the ingredient listed is oats. Not oat flour. If one is using oat flour, generally one must specify that on an ingredient list. So, even more evidence that no filler action is happening in the manner you postulate.

2) Yeast is used for a heck of a lot more in cooking than just as leavening. It's also used as a flavor agent, not unlike MSG. To make the assumption that taco bell is attempting to add leavening to their taco meat, when the more simple explanation (given 1) is that they are, indeed, using it as said flavor agent.

3) Oats are used for many more things than making bread. They are used in a number of ways, as well as being a texturizer. In this case, that's how taco bell is using them.

4) You may not add any starches, but it is definitely common to do so, no matter what google tells you. Having spent time in industrial kitchens, I can tell you that you probably have NO idea what goes into the food you're served in a restaurant. Adding starches of various sorts to ground beef is par for the course, for any number of reasons. Flours/cornstarch/meals to get seasonings to stick during the cooking process, as a binder, as a thickener, to add texture...

Attempting to insinuate that there's something "deceptive" about a very normal cooking technique, is just plain stupid in my opinion.

There's a case here. I can't say where it will go, but I doubt it will get tossed. I predict a settlement and a modification to their advertising once this dies down.

For anyone who knows anything about the food industry, no, there is no case here. No case at all. In fact, the entire idea is laughable beyond belief. But judges don't go to culinary school. So, instead of being hand-waved off as the inanity it is, this will probably end up going somewhere, and being messy, and stupid, and get blown totally out of proportion...

 

[not daSkeptic]

Yeast is used for a heck of a lot more in cooking than just as leavening. It's also used as a flavor agent, not unlike MSG.

Indeed. I believe many Australians spread it on toast.

 

[Furcifer]

I have done so, many times. It is close to the restaurant product, but you can tell a difference.

Except, I would not expect to get exactly the same thing in the store-bought packet of seasonings as I would get in the Tyson-made seasoning blend used by Taco Bell. That's why I phrased my hypothetical as I did: "using the same seasoning blend as Taco Bell."

The reason is that I am not preparing that item to be held at temperature in a restaurant for a length of time, nor am I selling that item to be taken home and consumed by someone else. Those differences often mean that a restaurant uses more preservatives than I would, and uses at least some binding agents or thickeners in the seasoning mix because it's likely that some water will occasionally have to be added to the mixture being held at temperature in the steam table. It tends to dry out, you see.

Now, as far as I can tell, this suit is asserting that Taco Bell (or Tyson on behalf of Taco Bell, really) is adding far more than just a little thickener, a bit of binding agent, to the ground beef and the seasonings. The suit is claiming that most of what's in there is actually oat product, and very little meat was ever involved.

I don't think that's true. I think their taco filling starts out as at least a 70/30 mix of 100% ground beef, from which the fat is drained, and to which seasoning and water is added during cooking, just like I'd cook it on my stove. Period. You know, once that beef is cooked, some of it by volume is rendered away: the fat. So what began as 100% raw beef is slightly less than that, after cooking, and that's true no matter how you cook the meat or what you do with it next. Part of it gets removed by cooking.

You take a look in my skillet, and some of the beef I put in there is gone, because I drained off the rendered fat. I replaced it with water and seasonings. I don't know how to measure such things, but I'd say I have at least 88% beef in there now, if not less. My mixture, after all, was 70/30, the 30 being fat. I didn't cook it all off, but I did get a lot of it. Maybe...12% or more?

So that's how 100% raw beef becomes 88% of the recipe of seasoned ground beef. The other 12% are the seasonings and the water that were added to cook it, after the fats were drained away.

This sounds reasonable, but it's still a little off. I'm not sure what preservatives are needed, it's cooked and frozen then thawed and heated. It doesn't sit for very long. I put cooked ground meat in the fridge and eat it 2 days later with no problem.
They hold the meat in a double boiler (I forget the restaurant name), so it doesn't dry out like leaving it on the stove would.
As for the suit there are actually several claims. The percentage of beef really isn't important, even if it's 36% like they claim, it's going to be hard to prove all of it's 36% and that's close enough to 40% anyways. The real issue is calling this product ground beef. To call it ground beef it has to be closer to 99%, and since it isn't the case really rests on whether or not they should call it "taco filling" or "seasoned ground beef". Even if they were allowed to call it "seasoned ground beef" they have to prove people don't expect to get "seasoned ground beef", the kind you would get at any grocery store in the country.