Sylvia Browne has had a heart attack

[thaiboxerken]

I don't.

If Sylvia Browne had expressed even one iota of a conscience at some point, I might summon up some sympathy for her. As it stands, she hasn't, at least not that I've ever seen. In my view, you can't purposely hurt and damage scores of people and then elicit compassion.

What goes around, comes around.

But it won't come around. She is still wealthy and lives in luxury. If she dies, she will have died without knowing the suffering that she's inflicted on others. I hope she lives, but that sure suffers bankruptcy and poverty.

 

[caniswalensis]

There are some people asking the question "If SB really is psychic, why didn't she see this coming?"

It is a fair question if asked earnestly, but I am sure some are only using it as a taunt of sorts.

If we treat it as an earnest question, the simplest possible answer is that she does not really have any psychic abilities. This explains a lot of what we have seen throughout SB's career, as well. I personally hold this answer to be the correct one.

There is another answer however, one provided by SB and other psychics, that also explains her inability to forsee her own heart attack. In her autobiography, "Psychic" SB states that it is impossible for a psychic to read things about themselves. SB is far from alone in making this assertion.

There are a couple different explanations given for this lack of ability by the psychics community. Some say it is a matter of being too close to the subject. The psychic has an obvious interest in what happens to them and they are not able to acheive clarity because of it. Others elevate it to a more spiritual level. A sort of cosmic checks & balences that prevents a misuse of their powers for personal gain.

This is nothing really new, and is a fairly common thing to see written about in material about psychics. I am a little surprised that it is not common knowledge amongst my fellow skeptics as well. I assumed that critical thinkers would spend some effort to learn what the psychics have to say about themselves before rejecting their claims.

Whether you believe them or not, psychics do have an answer to this question that is consistent enough with their other claims. Therefore, merely asking why they can't see their own heart attack coming is not the devastating logical blow that some seem to think it is.

Regards, Canis

 

[caniswalensis]

I will add that, if Browne does die before she is 88 years old, and I am in a position to update my site at that time, I will most probably add an article to the site about how she had told Larry King on his show that she would die when she was 88 years old. Not only would it point out yet another failed prediction on her part, it raises the question "if she says she can't be psychic about herself, why did she say she knew when she would die?"

Or....does the wrong prediction prove she was correct in saying that she could not read for herself?

Just kidding...we all know she was just talking out of her butt again and forgot what she had said earlier.

 

[sadhatter]

There are some people asking the question "If SB really is psychic, why didn't she see this coming?"

It is a fair question if asked earnestly, but I am sure some are only using it as a taunt of sorts.

If we treat it as an earnest question, the simplest possible answer is that she does not really have any psychic abilities. This explains a lot of what we have seen throughout SB's career, as well. I personally hold this answer to be the correct one.

There is another answer however, one provided by SB and other psychics, that also explains her inability to forsee her own heart attack. In her autobiography, "Psychic" SB states that it is impossible for a psychic to read things about themselves. SB is far from alone in making this assertion.

There are a couple different explanations given for this lack of ability by the psychics community. Some say it is a matter of being too close to the subject. The psychic has an obvious interest in what happens to them and they are not able to acheive clarity because of it. Others elevate it to a more spiritual level. A sort of cosmic checks & balences that prevents a misuse of their powers for personal gain.

This is nothing really new, and is a fairly common thing to see written about in material about psychics. I am a little surprised that it is not common knowledge amongst my fellow skeptics as well. I assumed that critical thinkers would spend some effort to learn what the psychics have to say about themselves before rejecting their claims.

Whether you believe them or not, psychics do have an answer to this question that is consistent enough with their other claims. Therefore, merely asking why they can't see their own heart attack coming is not the devastating logical blow that some seem to think it is.

Regards, Canis

I would rebut that with the fact that she "saw" a heart condition in Randi. Seeing as he is pretty much her lex luthor, that would make him fairly connected to her. And should her prediction be right , it would have been quite the win for her, making the prediction even closer to her.

Her own description of her powers contradicts that she cannot see things that relate to herself.

 

[caniswalensis]

And, even if she had not (sort of) answered it in past, for any here to say "why didn't she see this coming" when she may be on her death bed, is ungracious in the extreme.

You sir, are a class act.

People like you and Joe Nickell are my model for how to behave towards believers.

Regards, Canis

 

[caniswalensis]

I would rebut that with the fact that she "saw" a heart condition in Randi. Seeing as he is pretty much her lex luthor, that would make him fairly connected to her. And should her prediction be right , it would have been quite the win for her, making the prediction even closer to her.

Her own description of her powers contradicts that she cannot see things that relate to herself.

Please elaborate. What is her own description of her powers that you are referring too? She has definitely said several times, as do many, many other psychics, that it is not possible to do accurately predict one's own future.

Also, can you show that she subscribes to the "too close" idea as opposed to the "checks and ballences" version? Otherwise your rebuttal is not valid. I am not sure that it holds water anyway. We are talking about unmeasurable, metaphysical processes here. Documentation of them exists only in the claims of the psychics. I don't think it is possible to say that if they cant read for themselves they must necessarily also not be able to read for people that they are heavily involved with. It's all subjective claims and speculation.

I hate being in the position of defending claims I put no stock in. My only point is that asking why she did not see her own heart attack coming is not any sort of a problem for psychics to explain away.

Regards, Canis

 

[steve s]

In her autobiography, "Psychic" SB states that it is impossible for a psychic to read things about themselves. SB is far from alone in making this assertion.

RSL would know more about this, but if I'm not mistaken Browne has said that "No one is more psychic about you than yourself," or something to that extent. She has also said she knows when she'll die. This is not consistent with someone who says that she is not psychic about herself.

I am a little surprised that it is not common knowledge amongst my fellow skeptics as well.

I'm sure it is common knowledge here. It's been talked about enough times. We just like repeatedly pointing out her hypocrisy.

Steve S

 

[ExMinister]

Browne claims BOTH not to be able to read for herself for the checks and balances reason mentioned above, AND to have difficulty reading for those close to her for emotional reasons. She also has claimed that if you are psychic she may not be able to read for you. Well, she said that to me personally once anyway. And she can't always read for a dark entity because they don't chart their lives. That is available in various books, etc., that I don't feel like going back to find right now.

The "Why didn't she see it coming" is a legitimate question, one that is fair and reasonable for anyone outside of Browne's fan base.

There are plenty of people here unaware of Sylvia's above excuses. I'm not sure being a skeptic should require one to read every psychic's book on the market.

I also note that Sylvia herself did not waste much time, after James Randi's heart problem, posting something on her web site to the effect of, "I told you so," thus using Mr. Randi's own heart issue as a means to further her own career. Was that ungracious?

Yeah, probably. Does that mean we should be ungracious too? No, of course not.

I used to be in that camp so from where I stand now, I can imagine what the Sylvia forumites are saying. I am probably pretty close to right when I say they are likely discussing Azna, and healing prayers, and how hard Sylvia works and how she can't be psychic for herself. I guess I could say, "Typical," in an equally snarky way, but I won't.

We have in fact managed to create a fairly thoughtful thread here. Maybe Browne's forumites will be surprised after all.

 

[caniswalensis]

RSL would know more about this, but if I'm not mistaken Browne has said that "No one is more psychic about you than yourself," or something to that extent. She has also said she knows when she'll die. This is not consistent with someone who says that she is not psychic about herself.



I'm sure it is common knowledge here. It's been talked about enough times. We just like repeatedly pointing out her hypocrisy.

Steve S

Well, some people do not seem to be aware of it.

All people are inconsistent to one extent or another. It is not the same thing as hypocrisy.

All I am saying is that there is a reasonable (if you believe in psychics)answer to the question asked, and so there are no points to be scored by asking the question.

 

[RSLancastr]

But it won't come around. She is still wealthy and lives in luxury. If she dies, she will have died without knowing the suffering that she's inflicted on others. I hope she lives, but that sure suffers bankruptcy and poverty.

I don't know if she has suffered poverty, but, IIRC, she and her then-husband Dal Brown filed bankruptcy (or perhaps it was their Society of Novus Spiritus that did) not long after Sylvia filed a plea of No Contest to charges stemming from their selling shares in a crooked mining venture, see my article aout it, titled, I believe, "The People versus Sylvia Browne".

 

[thaiboxerken]

I used to be in that camp so from where I stand now, I can imagine what the Sylvia forumites are saying.

I can imagine that they will only post about the "bad" skeptics, who are ridiculing the situation and not the "good" skeptics that think she deserves compassion because she's human.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I don't know if she has suffered poverty, but, IIRC, she and her then-husband Dal Brown filed bankruptcy (or perhaps it was their Society of Novus Spiritus that did) not long after Sylvia filed a plea of No Contest to charges stemming from their selling shares in a crooked mining venture, see my article aout it, titled, I believe, "The People versus Sylvia Browne".

I doubt she's ever had to suffer poverty. Bankruptcy doesn't reallly play a huge role in such things these days. How many times has Trump went bankrupt? Such people can to this because their source of income doesn't stop.

 

[RSLancastr]

This is nothing really new, and is a fairly common thing to see written about in material about psychics. I am a little surprised that it is not common knowledge amongst my fellow skeptics as well. I assumed that critical thinkers would spend some effort to learn what the psychics have to say about themselves before rejecting their claims.

And many of us are aware of it, Canis. But we all have large gaps in our knowledge about various paranormal topics. And one does not have to be well-versed in a given topic ("psychic powrs", for example) in order to be skeptical of it.

]Whether you believe them or not, psychics do have an answer to this question that is consistent enough with their other claims.

Unless they, like Browne, have also made predictions about themselves

Therefore, merely asking why they can't see their own heart attack coming is not the devastating logical blow that some seem to think it is.

Especially to believers, who would simply see it as evidence of the questioner's ignorance.

 

[RSLancastr]

Or....does the wrong prediction prove she was correct in saying that she could not read for herself?

And that is how I assume her supporters would try to spin it, something I will address should I write said article.

Just kidding...we all know she was just talking out of her butt again and forgot what she had said earlier.

Or, more likely, just ssumed nobody would notice the contradiction.

 

[RSLancastr]

You sir, are a class act.

People like you and Joe Nickell are my model for how to behave towards believers.

Regards, Canis

Thank you, sir. Madam? No, I think yours is the avatar of a "sir".

 

[RSLancastr]

Please elaborate. What is her own description of her powers that you are referring too? She has definitely said several times, as do many, many other psychics, that it is not possible to do accurately predict one's own future.

I don't have the quote in front of me, but she definitely extends this to those close to her. She uses it, for example, to explain why she didn't know that some of the men she has married were bad eggs.

She also, I've been told, used it when members of her staff noticed that her predictions about them were inaccurate and/or inconsistent. Instead of seeing it for the nonsense that it was, most chose to be flattered that she considered them to be too close to her for an accurate reading!

 

[Rincewind]

When you go to Sylvia's website, http://www.sylviabrowne.com/ you see the following:

Urgent Announcement Concerning Sylvia from Novus Spiritus®
On March 21, 2011 our beloved Sylvia Browne suffered a heart attack while in Hawaii. Click here to read the full announcement and to find more information about how you can help us spread this "light in a dark and lonely desert".

Is it just me, or did anybody else read this as Novus Spiritus saying that the "light in a dark and lonely desert" is SB suffering a heart attack?

Maybe they don't really love her...

 

[RSLancastr]

Is it just me, or did anybody else read this as Novus Spiritus saying that the "light in a dark and lonely desert" is SB suffering a heart attack?

Maybe they don't really love her...

No, I read it as referring to Sylvia (and her "message") as the "light", and a world full of (mostly) non-believers in that "message" being the "dark and lonely desert.

 

[sadhatter]

Please elaborate. What is her own description of her powers that you are referring too? She has definitely said several times, as do many, many other psychics, that it is not possible to do accurately predict one's own future.

Also, can you show that she subscribes to the "too close" idea as opposed to the "checks and ballences" version? Otherwise your rebuttal is not valid. I am not sure that it holds water anyway. We are talking about unmeasurable, metaphysical processes here. Documentation of them exists only in the claims of the psychics. I don't think it is possible to say that if they cant read for themselves they must necessarily also not be able to read for people that they are heavily involved with. It's all subjective claims and speculation.

I hate being in the position of defending claims I put no stock in. My only point is that asking why she did not see her own heart attack coming is not any sort of a problem for psychics to explain away.

Regards, Canis

LEt's try this from a different route. And accept the fact that if it isn't directly her, she can't see it, but if it is someone close to her she can...

Her heart attack would effect not just her, but everyone she knows, they , obviously would be sad about this, and just look at the press they have been drumming up about it. It would be a major life event for them, not just her.

So lets say, she cannot see a lick of her own future.

She should still be able to know it is coming by seeing the future of those around her. For example, she might not be able to see herself lying in a hospital bed, but she should surely be able to see her friends dismay at this, or her employees reactions, etc.

It is effecting them in a major way, and she claims to be able to see others lives. So if she is saying " i can't see my own future" even giving her that, she should have seen it coming by the effects it had on her followers.

 

[sadhatter]

I don't have the quote in front of me, but she definitely extends this to those close to her. She uses it, for example, to explain why she didn't know that some of the men she has married were bad eggs.

She also, I've been told, used it when members of her staff noticed that her predictions about them were inaccurate and/or inconsistent. Instead of seeing it for the nonsense that it was, most chose to be flattered that she considered them to be too close to her for an accurate reading!

But what about the droves of sylvia fans that are not close to her, but that would be effected by this? Even if we further extend the claim to not knowing about those close to her, she should be able to see, when reading Mrs. Smith from Idaho, that she would be upset about her having a heart attack. Seeing as the vast majority of people she does readings for are not close to her, she still should have had plenty of warning.