Swine Flu in Southwest USA = Excuse for Martial Law

[ClassyElf]

Look how the masses were conditioned to love Obama as their saviour.

Have you watched Fox news lately?

Do you think this will end up becoming an epidemic or pandemic and be an excuse for the government to declare Martial Law?

Nope.

 

[8den]

Depending on the pathogen it could be much faster. The Spanish Flu killed tens of millions in weeks not months or years and spread very rapidly. If something that virulent and contagious comes around again, in an era of jet travel, we could have a world wide pandemic in days.

The flip side of that is that flu conditions were ripe across the globe in 1918. Rationing was in place in both Europe and the United States, meaning populations were malnourished, it was difficult to even keep people warm, never mind basic medicines like paracetamol or aspirin were in short supply. Finally the flu went like wild fire through military camps, and army units, hundreds of men in close proximity were breeding grounds for the damn flu.

Don't get me wrong we're due a serious flu pandemic, just one guy on a plane from new york to london, and then all those passengers stepping onto the london underground. First signs of a major flu pandemic anywhere in the world, and I start cycling to work.



By the way, I find this idea that government wants to institute Martial Law as strange. Enforcing Martial Law is expensive and stressful which is why the government looks on it as a desperate measure of last resort.[/quote]

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Why won't it become an epidemic or pandemic? The WHO and other government health organizations are taking this very seriously.

Also consider that this virus contains European, Asian, and North American pig flu virus all together.

You don't get that kind of mix in the wild. It reeks of an engineered virus. Now whether or not it got out into the wild on purpose is another matter, but it was engineered and it could very easily mutate into something that is extremely deadly and spreads very easily.

The people who got this virus in the US had no contact with pigs, which means they got it from other humans, which should scary you a hell of a lot.

Even if we don't see a major spread right now, don't believe that the worst is over, because it has plenty of time to mutate and come back, and it will multiple times, just like bird flu has.

i just remember all the same hullabaloo over west nile virus, and the bird flu, and sars, and probably a dozen others i cant think of right now, and at least in my little corner of midwest suburbia its always been a whole lot of nothing

 

[Thunder]

i just remember all the same hullabaloo over west nile virus, and the bird flu, and sars, and probably a dozen others i cant think of right now, and at least in my little corner of midwest suburbia its always been a whole lot of nothing

i just bought myself 60 surgical masks. this one is a little scary.

 

[Greediguts]

i just bought myself 60 surgical masks. this one is a little scary.

I, for one, have decided to stop deep-kissing swine...for the present time.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

If this is the beginning of a pandemic, you'll quickly learn three facts:
1, Almost no state, community, or organization has a pandemic plan completed;

Lots of counties and states have completed plans, including CDC.

2. There aren't anywhere close to enough respirators;

You don't need one. You just need to stay 3 feet away from the next person and wash your hands properly.

3. There aren't enough troops available for martial law.

There likely would be troops guarding some hospitals and pharmacies. Probably National Guard troops under state command.

Maybe before the drug companies had time to produce a lot of Tamiflu. Now we have better world stockpiles. It's the people with no access to medical care that will be in trouble.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

i just bought myself 60 surgical masks. this one is a little scary.

Ever wonder how small an influenza virus was compared to the holes in your surgical mask that let air through?

Did you get masks with eye shields? There's an hypothesis that the tear duct empties out in the throat in an ideal place for some upper respiratory viruses to grow.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Infection control basics for influenza. Forgive me for forgoing the references, it's time consuming.

Most influenza studies show flu to be droplet spread. That means the surgical mask would offer some protection, but a well fitted N95 is the minimum you'd want if this strain starts killing many people.

A few studies showed flu to be spread via the airborne route. The N95 in that case along with all the usual masks and respirators would not be 100% safe. Only self contained or supplied air respirators would.

The person with the flu however, should wear that surgical mask. The less virus expelled into the air with a cough, the less virus out there infecting the next person.


The real key to protection is hand washing and staying 3 feet or more away from everyone. The mask does keep you from putting your contaminated hands into your nose and mouth. For that reason, a mask with a face shield is a better choice. You can get infected touching a contaminated surface like a doorknob, then rubbing your eye nose or mouth.

 

[Travis]

Governments inherently want to control. Martial law is ultimate control. I don't think the US government cares about cost considering what they have spent on the war in Iraq, homeland security, and now the bailouts for these failed institutions.

I'm thinking that most politicians have things they'd prefer money spent on instead of a couple million road checkpoints strewn across the country and soldiers getting combat pay 24/7 for making sure a bunch of kindergartners don't act up.

I personally don't believe that the powers that be want total control and fear is a great way to do this. People will welcome their slavery just to feel safe from the terrorists, virus, and asteroids.

Only some people are willing to do that. I'm not one of them and I don't think you are too.

The flip side of that is that flu conditions were ripe across the globe in 1918. Rationing was in place in both Europe and the United States, meaning populations were malnourished, it was difficult to even keep people warm, never mind basic medicines like paracetamol or aspirin were in short supply. Finally the flu went like wild fire through military camps, and army units, hundreds of men in close proximity were breeding grounds for the damn flu.

Don't get me wrong we're due a serious flu pandemic, just one guy on a plane from new york to london, and then all those passengers stepping onto the london underground. First signs of a major flu pandemic anywhere in the world, and I start cycling to work.

True that things were different in 1918 but what always gets me is how quick the 1918 virus spread and how devastating it was in places like China.

 

[AndrewIlluminatus]

I, for one, have decided to stop deep-kissing swine...for the present time.

You mean you used to have male chauvinist pigs as your boyfriends?

 

[Elizabeth I]

I personally don't believe that the powers that be want total control and fear is a great way to do this. People will welcome their slavery just to feel safe from the...asteroids.

I completely missed this the first time around. How, pray tell, will martial law protect us from the laws of physics? How will rounding people up and putting them in FEMA camps keep massive chunks of rock from falling out of space onto the earth if we are in their trajectory? Even Truthers and CTers couldn't be stupid enough to believe that .

 

[Holler Hoojer]

For those interested, here's a link to the CDC page covering swine flu.

If you persist in using facts, I shall be forced to report you to the mods. At long last, sir, have you no deceit?

 

[Tricky]

A number of off-topic and bickering posts moved to AAH. Please make your posts on-topic and exclude bickering.

Thank you.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

 

[boloboffin]

I'd like to know a way to rationally discuss the OP without resorting to sarcasm.

 

[Thunder]

a state of health emergency has been declared in the USA. i expect truther heads to start exploding any day now.

 

[portlandatheist]

Also consider that this virus contains European, Asian, and North American pig flu virus all together.

You don't get that kind of mix in the wild. It reeks of an engineered virus. Now whether or not it got out into the wild on purpose is another matter, but it was engineered and it could very easily mutate into something that is extremely deadly and spreads very easily.

Source? Or did you figure that out on your in your basement lab?

 

[Thunder]

You don't get that kind of mix in the wild. It reeks of an engineered virus. .

spare us the paranoid delusional opinions. no proof means no pudding.

 

[Robster FCD]

It does look like we have a pandemic on our hands, in that it has spread to Texas, Kansas, New York (possibly) and New Zealand. An epidemic only means that there are significantly more cases than predicted, and pandemic means that it is an epidemic on a global scale. The best evidence shows that there isn't a high mortality associated with this flu with good medical care, so I won't be losing sleep over this. In fact, the terms epidemic and pandemic are often misused, sometimes intentionally, because of the emotional response and call to action that they trigger. For example, we no longer have an AIDS epidemic, as the rate of infection has become stable. It is still a major public health concern, but is now in an endemic phase.

As to it being an engineered strain, that is a completely evidence free claim. It is unusual that there are porcine, avian and human gene groups in this particular strain, but that is it. It is only unusual, not evidence of conspiracy.

The flu virus is interesting because of how its genes are organized. It has several short stretches of RNA, like little mini chromosomes. A mature viral particle contains one each of these mini chromosomes. If an animal is infected with multiple strains of flu simultaneously, some of those virus particles will end up with new mixes of genes. The only unusual thing about this particular virus is that this occurred either once (one critter with three simultaneous infections) or twice (one critter with two viruses, virus gets passed on for a while, infects another critter where we get another simultaneous infection with another flu virus).

Being unusual does not in any way mean that it is impossible outside of laboratory manipulation, only that you have to wait a while for that particular probability to come up. (lottery fallacy)

 

[Greediguts]

You mean you used to have male chauvinist pigs as your boyfriends?

No, I meant my passion for bestiality will have to be curbed.

It does look like we have a pandemic on our hands, in that it has spread to Texas, Kansas, New York (possibly) and New Zealand. An epidemic only means that there are significantly more cases than predicted, and pandemic means that it is an epidemic on a global scale. The best evidence shows that there isn't a high mortality associated with this flu with good medical care, so I won't be losing sleep over this. In fact, the terms epidemic and pandemic are often misused, sometimes intentionally, because of the emotional response and call to action that they trigger. For example, we no longer have an AIDS epidemic, as the rate of infection has become stable. It is still a major public health concern, but is now in an endemic phase.

Well put Robster, FCD and welcome to the forum! The media has not done the best job IMO of explaining the situation and I believe many are becoming upset without knowing all the facts.

 

[Robster FCD]

Thanks Greediguts, I'm just glad that there isn't a sheep flu, or my Scottish Ancestry might put me in a high risk group.