Survey about creationism

[Ruby]

DC is just threatened by her femininity.

Ruby, I was going to post earlier in this thread but I just wanted to say that while I find some of your conclusions mind boggling, I'm glad you are sharing them with us and discussing the issue further.

I am also inclined to find some of my conclusions mind boggling!!!!!

 

[Denise]

Ruby, I am a little late to the thread here, but I want you to know that I think it's horrid when someone calls people names because the disagree with them. I think you should really take some time over at the talk origins website and really look at all the data they have available so that you can gain more knowledge on this issue if it's important to you. If it's not an issue of importance to you, I understand that as well. I like to read the Science forum, but when people start talking about quantum mechanics etc. you can hear the gigantic whooshing sound as it all passes over my head.

Wanting to learn about things is a noble endeavor and for people to discourage thirst for knowledge by personally attacking someone is irrational and unbecoming the JREF mission. This is my opinion as Denise the poster, and not Denise the moderator in case there is any confusion.

 

[Ruby]

Ruby, I am a little late to the thread here, but I want you to know that I think it's horrid when someone calls people names because the disagree with them. I think you should really take some time over at the talk origins website and really look at all the data they have available so that you can gain more knowledge on this issue if it's important to you. If it's not an issue of importance to you, I understand that as well. I like to read the Science forum, but when people start talking about quantum mechanics etc. you can hear the gigantic whooshing sound as it all passes over my head.

Wanting to learn about things is a noble endeavor and for people to discourage thirst for knowledge by personally attacking someone is irrational and unbecoming the JREF mission. This is my opinion as Denise the poster, and not Denise the moderator in case there is any confusion.

Thank you!!!!

 

[Brian the Snail]

To Ruby, regarding the age of the earth:

The first thing you should realise about this issue is that in the scientific community it is pretty much universally accepted that the earth is billions of years old, based on the evidence available. So the "debate" you mention in some of your posts isn't really a debate between experts in a particular field, as normally happens in science.

Instead, what has happened, especially in the U.S., is that some people have decided that an old earth is incompatible with their religious views, so have decided to attack the scientific concensus. In other words, they start from the view that Bible is inerrant and that the creation account in book of Genesis should be read as being literally true. Since this kind of reading of the bible would imply a relatively young earth (less than about 10 000 years) then this would mean modern estimates of the age of the Earth would be false.

Note that this argument relies on a particularly view of the bible (one which is not the majority view even amongst Christians, BTW), not on the evidence from scientific studies. Unfortunately, many "Young Earth Creationists" have tried to put a scientific spin on their religious views (in order, amongst other things, to get their ideas taught in schools). Some of their "scientific" arguments can sound quite plausable, and have convinced many people, so I certainly don't think you're stupid for perhaps being taken in by some of them But you should know that their arguments have failed to convince the mass majority of scientists, especially in the relevant fields (mostly geology and astronomy).

Anyway, all of this is besides the point, and is my own personal take on the subject FWIW. The important thing is that if you're interested in the topic, that you look at the evidence as carefully and objectively as you can, and make up your own mind. The links others have posted will be useful as starting points. The link I've posted below also discusses perhaps the best way of dating the age of Earth, through radiometric dating of rocks. I'm afraid it can be pretty heavy reading at times, but I think it's worth slogging through it. And I'm sure if you have any questions at least some people who hang around these boards will be able to answer them.

Good luck!

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Wiens.html

 

[Renfield]

Uhh, I'd say the number of species, extinct and extant, is extremely solid evidence of trans-species evolution. Or how else would you explain that new species have been appearing for as long as life has existed on Earth? Is God still going around: "Mmmm, this place could need some camels --- Zap!"?

Hans

I think the creationists argue that the "great flood" somehow sorted out all the bones into the arrangement we find them now. How they think this works I have no idea. Correct me if I am wrong anyone.

 

[Martin]

How they think this works I have no idea

Nor do they, actually.

 

[Gregor]

get off it Kashyapa

I've never said a disrespectful word on this thread to anyone, especially Ruby. I've never said a disrespectful word to anyone on this entire site (save Stamenflicker).

So, Mr. Kashyapa, while you can jump to any conclusions you like, I suggest that you remove your head from your exhaust port in the future. Also, realize that people are free in this world (and site) to disagree with each other in whatever form they chose, so long as it doesn't violate the law (or forum rules).

 

[Tricky]

Re: get off it Kashyapa

I've never said a disrespectful word on this thread to anyone...

...I suggest that you remove your head from your exhaust port in the future.

Oops. There goes your perfect record.

 

[Gregor]

It was as respectfully disrespectful as possible.

 

[Kashyapa]

Re: yohoo - Mr. PC Police

Sure. But people aren't going to respect your opinions if you're a dick about expressing them. That should be obvious to anyone over the age of, say, 10, but I guess not. And there are ways that civilized people disagree and act, and neither you or DC are adhering to those. I reserve the right to call people on behavior that would put a 10-year-old to shame, lawful or not. PC doesn't even come into it.

This is pointless. Let's get back on topic, and act like the adults that most of us are. I'm astonished that this even became an issue.

 

[Gregor]

Let me see . . . You’re attacking me and DC for using inappropriate language. Your attack on me is false, and your conduct is unmeritorious. Let’s review the tape of your comments on this thread.

“s**tty comments. Shame on you.”

“How the hell do you get off talking”

“You should have learned that in pre-school.”

“ignore everything this joker says”

“I should accept your adolescent behavior.”

“you just bashed her and ran”

“to be ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.”

“You're irrelevant. Have the good grace to realize it and slink away”

Now, what was that point about civilized behavior?

You’re a liar (I’ve never said anything inappropriate to Ruby), a
hypocrite (see above), and obviously very insecure. Why don’t you practice a little of what you preach about the treatment of people?

 

[Kashyapa]

This is getting tiring. I reserve the right to blast someone for their behavior. I blasted DC, you stepped in as his apologist, and I included you. Ruby deserved nothing of what she got- and you're damn right I'm going to step in with some harsh words for whoever thinks that's an acceptable thing to do.

I apologize for my aggressive comments to you, as you really weren't the source of the problem in the first place. I'll grant you that, although I still think DC's behavior is indefensible, and I retract nothing of what I said to him. I'm sorry, I was out of line. Now. We're off topic, and we need to move on and start actually discussing something.

Let me see . . . You’re attacking me and DC for using inappropriate language. Your attack on me is false, and your conduct is unmeritorious. Let’s review the tape of your comments on this thread.

“s**tty comments. Shame on you.”

“How the hell do you get off talking”

“You should have learned that in pre-school.”

“ignore everything this joker says”

“I should accept your adolescent behavior.”

“you just bashed her and ran”

“to be ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.”

“You're irrelevant. Have the good grace to realize it and slink away”

Now, what was that point about civilized behavior?

You’re a liar (I’ve never said anything inappropriate to Ruby), a
hypocrite (see above), and obviously very insecure. Why don’t you practice a little of what you preach about the treatment of people?

 

[Gregor]

thanks -
now, I might question Ruby's constant attachments of full motion pictures - but that's another thread

 

[Lord Kenneth]

I did have you on ignore, but saw your question in someone's post after yours. I will answer, although you will doubtless think I am a moron again.

The reason I put between 5000 and 10 million is because I have not yet studied enough data and info to make a conclusion. Most creationists say the world is around 5000-6000yrs in age. I think evolutionists believe the earth to be billions of years old. When I responded to the survey, I thought it was around 10 million instead of billion. Since I have not reached a descision on the age of the earth, I used both the creationist theory and evolution theory. What I should have put...instead of "between 5000 and 10 million years"...was 5000 OR 10 million years, and stated how I am unsure which one is accurate.

For one thing, the age of the earth has nothing to do with evolutionary theory. Creationists, who are unscienfitic and generally stupid, try to lump it in with evolution mistakenly because it goes against their Christian dogma.

Creationism has no merit! How can you believe in something silly like that?

I happen to know several people who believe the earth is only around 5000-6000yrs, and I can assure you, they are not morons.

Then why such a moronic conclusion?

You need to learn to be open to other people's points of view and beliefs, even if you are certain they are wrong. I feel that you must be young and perhaps not in control of your emotions. I am not saying that to be mean. Forgive me if I am wrong about it.

I won't kill you for them but I won't like you either.

I used to run a forum...it's on hiatus for now. It was a Christian forum open to people of all beliefs under the sun. If someone posted saying they believed in reincarnation or that John Edwards was really contacting the dead or that there was no God, I could not and would not insult them in any way. I questioned them.....and tried to understand where they were coming from and got in many civil debates..........well, some got heated, but there were not flame wars. Actually, I had more heated debates with Christians themselves. I have too many liberal views for a lot of Christians.

Christianity is bogus.

A lot of people of all kinds of personalities and beliefs can be so cool and make the best friends. I have friends who are highly college educated...one a PHD.....one can speak many languages.....another knows history like the back of his hand. I have other friends who can barely spell or form proper sentences. They would make much less sense to you than I do.

Anyhow, I know it must be hard to be very intelligent and to feel you are right about something, but don't use it as a weapon to alienate yourself from others. You won't go far in this world like that. My hubby is a brain..he's an engineer with all sorts of other talents. He has learned how to make friends with all sorts too. Even those who look at him with glazed eyes not grasping the things he is saying......sometimes I am one of those

Go out and buy a science book... if you didn't learn about this stuff in school like you should have, I apologize.

No credible, intelligent person thinks the world is 6000 years old with today's data.

My dear hubby even befriended a man who was a *forrest Gump* type. He became his friend and eventually helped him to read better. He never called him a moron.

I know I am rambling on here. I am sorry if you are unhappy in life in any way. Sometimes our frustrations come out on these type of message boards where we are essentially talking to strangers who we can't see. I bear you no malice. I was angry when I first read your insulting posts, but I am not angry now. I chill and forgive pretty quick. Just behave yourself now, ok?

I am interested in your view point on the age of this earth, but as my knowledge is very limited in this area, I can't really debate. I can only *listen* and learn.....and then agree or disagree.

If your knowledge is limited, then educate yourself, buy a book from a credible source, not from a creationist.

Read peer-reviewed journals, papers, etc if you must.

 

[scribble]

You need to learn to be open to other people's points of view and beliefs, even if you are certain they are wrong.

?!

What the hell does that mean?

 

[Ruby]

?!

What the hell does that mean?

Well, for instance, I think the evolution theory is probably wrong, but I am open to learning about it and seeing if there is merit to it.

 

[Martin]

What would it take to convince you?

 

[Ruby]

To Ruby, regarding the age of the earth:

The first thing you should realise about this issue is that in the scientific community it is pretty much universally accepted that the earth is billions of years old, based on the evidence available. So the "debate" you mention in some of your posts isn't really a debate between experts in a particular field, as normally happens in science.

Instead, what has happened, especially in the U.S., is that some people have decided that an old earth is incompatible with their religious views, so have decided to attack the scientific concensus. In other words, they start from the view that Bible is inerrant and that the creation account in book of Genesis should be read as being literally true. Since this kind of reading of the bible would imply a relatively young earth (less than about 10 000 years) then this would mean modern estimates of the age of the Earth would be false.

Note that this argument relies on a particularly view of the bible (one which is not the majority view even amongst Christians, BTW), not on the evidence from scientific studies. Unfortunately, many "Young Earth Creationists" have tried to put a scientific spin on their religious views (in order, amongst other things, to get their ideas taught in schools). Some of their "scientific" arguments can sound quite plausable, and have convinced many people, so I certainly don't think you're stupid for perhaps being taken in by some of them But you should know that their arguments have failed to convince the mass majority of scientists, especially in the relevant fields (mostly geology and astronomy).

Anyway, all of this is besides the point, and is my own personal take on the subject FWIW. The important thing is that if you're interested in the topic, that you look at the evidence as carefully and objectively as you can, and make up your own mind. The links others have posted will be useful as starting points. The link I've posted below also discusses perhaps the best way of dating the age of Earth, through radiometric dating of rocks. I'm afraid it can be pretty heavy reading at times, but I think it's worth slogging through it. And I'm sure if you have any questions at least some people who hang around these boards will be able to answer them.

Good luck!

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Wiens.html

Thanks for the link and the info.

 

[Socrates]

1. How old is the Universe?

I can't say for sure. Can you?

2. How old is the Earth?

I can't say for sure. Can you?

3. How old is life?

I can't say for sure. Can you?

4. Was there a Flood? If there was, when?

Absolutely! We had flash floods here in Maryland just last week.

5. Was there one Ice Age or more? When?

You didn't define Ice Age, but I'll assume your aren't referring to the winters I spent in Germany. I will assume that you are referring to cyclical periods of glacial growth.

That being said, there is a good chance that there have been Ice Ages, but I'm not interested in counting them. As for when? I just don't know. I wasn't there.

Thank you for your cooperation.

You are very welcome my friend!

Love,
Socrates

 

[Ruby]

thanks -
now, I might question Ruby's constant attachments of full motion pictures - but that's another thread

I love cute animations. I like to use them to express my mood or make a point or just for fun!