Supreme Court Health Care Decision Thread

[Unabogie]

C-Span 3 has Tom Harkin talking about creating a health care system that works for everyone. In the background, you can hear Michelle Bachmann saying "Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare!"

Delicious!

 

[JamesDillon]

Wow, talk about being "in the bubble!!" I had heard that certain folks who identified themselves as "conservative" had decided--before the decision came down--that there was no conceivable scenario under which they could be deemed to "lose," and that no matter how the case came out, Romney would be the "winner."

They may well be right about that. The mandate is still massively unpopular, and now that it's been clearly identified as a tax the conservatives can plausibly claim that Obama broke his pledge to impose no new taxes on middle-class families. I'm not sure how much of a boost Obama can hope for from a victory in favor of a widely unpopular law.

 

[BenBurch]

Are 5-4 decisions cool again?

When they are not party-line decisions, no decision is uncool. When we see what is clearly politics happening, that's not cool, even if it favors me.

 

[Unabogie]

I've never been forced to buy a home. I don't know what you're blubbering about.

And if there was a mandate to purchase a home, I'd be against that too so I don't have any clue as to what your post was supposed to accomplish.

This explains why you don't understand the decision. You have a tax rate that you can mitigate if you buy a home. Therefore, it's a home buying mandate. You have a tax rate that you can mitigate if you buy health insurance or if you get it through work. If you can't afford it, the government will provide subsidies so that the vast majority of Americans will get it for very cheap.

Good day for America!

 

[BenBurch]

They may well be right about that. The mandate is still massively unpopular, and now that it's been clearly identified as a tax the conservatives can plausibly claim that Obama broke his pledge no impose no new taxes on middle-class families. I'm not sure how much of a boost Obama can hope for from a victory in favor of a widely unpopular law.

It's all about spin and winning/losing.

If you lose, you have a hard time telling people you are a winner.

The winner/loser thing is very significant in US public opinion, though it shouldn't be.

 

[Unabogie]

When they are not party-line decisions, no decision is uncool. When we see what is clearly politics happening, that's not cool, even if it favors me.

Well, it should have been 9-0.

 

[bynmdsue]

When they are not party-line decisions, no decision is uncool. When we see what is clearly politics happening, that's not cool, even if it favors me.

What an charmingly even-handed rational answer. I don't like you but I do respect you.

Well, I kinda like you.

Just don't go all Gaspard over it. https://twitter.com/patrickgaspard/status/218347872163344386

 

[RandFan]

Supreme Court: 5-4 decision affirms individual mandate

Supreme Court upholds entire health care law

 

[Ryokan]

Congratulations, America..

 

[Peephole]

 

[ZirconBlue]

I'm biased in favor of literacy.

Oh, the irony.

Without having read the opinion . . .

 

[Unabogie]

There's a big thread in Politics. Come on by!

 

[Brown]

By the way, the opinion is available now. I'm reading it--it's LONG, with some parts majority and some parts plurality--and with a quick scan have spotted a few questionable parts ... in every opinion. But I shall not spout off yet.

 

[Tony]

"Limited and enumerated powers" means nothing anymore.

Outside of conservative fantasies, did it ever mean anything? At one time or another, America has had a government that enslaved people based on race, put them in camps based on nationality, criminalized criticism of the government, forced women to carry children they didn't want, forcibly sterilized people, censored information, censored pornography, fined people for saying "bad" words, forced people to pray, forbade what chemicals or drugs people can ingest, forced people into military service. I can go on and on.

But noooo, it only is NOW. When government has reformed healthcare (for good or ill) that "limited and enumerated powers" means nothing.

 

[RandFan]

They may well be right about that. The mandate is still massively unpopular, and now that it's been clearly identified as a tax the conservatives can plausibly claim that Obama broke his pledge to impose no new taxes on middle-class families. I'm not sure how much of a boost Obama can hope for from a victory in favor of a widely unpopular law.

Depends on whether or not you ask people if they like "Obamacare" or if they like the benefits of Obamacare.

source Most Americans oppose President Barack Obama's healthcare reform even though they strongly support most of its provisions, Reuters/Ipsos poll showed on Sunday, with the Supreme Court set to rule within days on whether the law should stand.

Fifty-six percent of people are against the healthcare overhaul and 44 percent favor it, according to the online poll conducted from Tuesday through Saturday.

* Eighty percent of Republicans favor “creating an insurance pool where small businesses and uninsured have access to insurance exchanges to take advantage of large group pricing benefits.” That’s backed by 75 percent of independents. [...]
* Fifty two percent of Republicans favor “allowing children to stay on parents insurance until age 26.” That’s backed by 69 percent of independents.
* Seventy eight percent of Republicans support “banning insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions; 86 percent of Republicans favor “banning insurance companies from cancelling policies because a person becomes ill.” Those are backed by 82 percent of independents and 87 percent of independents.
* One provision that isn’t backed by a majority of Republicans: The one “expanding Medicaid to families with incomes less than $30,000 per year.”

 

[coalesce]

I'm happily flummoxed by this decision!

Michael

 

[RandFan]

Outside of conservative fantasies, did it ever mean anything? At one time or another, America has had a government that enslaved people based on race, put them in camps based on nationality, criminalized criticism of the government, forced women to carry children they didn't want, forcibly sterilized people, censored information, censored pornography, fined people for saying "bad" words, forced people to pray, forbade what chemicals or drugs people can ingest, forced people into military service. I can go on and on.

Great response.

 

[Dumb All Over]

Time to write my check to the RNC.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Now the Democratic Party needs to educate the public about the AHCA and stop the effects of the dishonest Republic talking points about the bill.

Polls show people approve of the individual pieces in the Health Care Act, and disapprove only when it is discussed as a whole.

The one drawback with the bill, we didn't get a public option. Maybe people can now see such an option simply offers people one more free will choice. The claim that the private market is doing health insurance better than the public should be easily disproved but the Democrats have not done a good job countering that 'death panel' lie.

From the things revealed by whistleblower, Wendell Potter, it was clear that major health care insurers, who felt they couldn't max out rates any more, instead raised profits by denying care to customers who had the most expensive claims. So, for example, if a person paid their premiums every month for years needed expensive care, the insurers were finding ways to deny that care or drop the policy on some ridiculous technical grounds. People were actually dropped because they failed to note they had acne as a teenager on their health history. These same people were not dropped as long as they paid in more than the insurer paid out on their behalf.

That should have been a no-brainer talking point but it's been drowned out with the Libertarian talking point the government can't do anything better than the private sector.

The reality is both private and public entities do some things better and some things worse than the other. Yes, more bureaucracy is problematic, but so is corporate greed. Yes, I might be annoyed at the seeming incompetence of the post office sometimes. But without a public postal service, private companies might not think mail service to rural Appalachia was profitable and those residents could lose their service. And the public does police and fire fairly well. After seeing the private police force of Blackwater in action in New Orleans after Katrina, I sure don't want them policing my town.

I'm not trying to get off topic here. I'm pointing out that it is a lie the government's involvement in health care is automatically a bad thing as the Republic talking point would have you believe. Talking points prevent people from addressing the actual facts. Dishonest talking points too easily mislead people.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Knock yourself out. Support that repeal of the healthcare law.