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Students wear "Straight Pride" shirts with Bible verses calling for death

wrong. and you know it.

except for the fact that most folks who wear "white pride" or "straight pride" t-shirts tend to be bigots. you were right about that one.

So what you are saying is that by declaring you are proud to be white and straight it probably makes you a bigot, but that doesn't mean we're telling people that they shouldn't be proud of being white and straight, just that they shouldn't go about saying it?
 
So what you are saying is that by declaring you are proud to be white and straight it probably makes you a bigot, but that doesn't mean we're telling people that they shouldn't be proud of being white and straight, just that they shouldn't go about saying it?

no.

folks say "I am proud to be black" or "I am proud to be gay", because we live in a society where to be black and gay used to (and still is for gays) something looked down on and insulted.

"Black Pride" is really saying "no, I will not do as you say and be ashamed of being black". its the same for gays.

but you knew that.


..ps. do a little Google search for "white pride", and see what you get. :)
 
no.

folks say "I am proud to be black" or "I am proud to be gay", because we live in a society where to be black and gay used to (and still is for gays) something looked down on and insulted.

"Black Pride" is really saying "no, I will not do as you say and be ashamed of being black". its the same for gays.

but you knew that.


..ps. do a little Google search for "white pride", and see what you get. :)

Try actually adressing the argument I made, not the one you want me to have made. Also try doing it without bringing Black Pride and Gay Pride into it.

Is it considered acceptable to state loudly that you are proud of being white and straight? Yes or No?
 
Is it considered acceptable to state loudly that you are proud of being white and straight? Yes or No?

no, its usually not.

and why? because "White Pride" is one of the slogans of Aryan Nations and other white supremacist and Neo-Nazi groups.

as for "straight pride", we already see from the OP what tends to follow it.
 
You seem to have a habit of addressing arguments I don't make. Nowhere did I say that "the act of other people demanding to be treated as equals and demanding that humiliation and subjugation cease threatens" me. I stated that there is a movement, however unintended, towards making non-minorities feel ashamed for being who they are by telling them that they can't stand up and say "I'm proud of who I am" because doing so is putting others down.

And you seem to have trouble noting that people do not need to quote you directly to deal with your arguments.

I highlighted the portion of your statements that I found bizarre, here they are again:

Unfortunately the overall message is that as a minority it's fine to be loud and proud and make a big thing of being a minority, but if you are not, then you can't be proud of who you are, in fact if you dare to be, you are a bigot because you are somehow declaring that you are superior to everyone else.

This is neither the message of minority "pride," nor a sensible thing to say. As I said, if this is how you interpret solidarity among abused and humiliated groups, I find that sort of sad.

Whether we like it or not, if a person stands up and says "I'm proud to be a white straight male," the inference is instantly that this is an attack against coloureds, gays, and females, and the speaker is therefore a bigot. Again, whether we like it or not, the message then becomes, "you can't be proud of being a white, straight, male because if you are you're a bigot."

There are a number of things wrong with this.

First, you're once again ignoring the historical context. No one says, "i'm proud to be white," because at no point in American history was there a cultural dynamic that indicated you should feel ashamed to be white. This is not true of "coloureds", homosexuals, and females.

You're getting the relationship backwards. "Pride" movements do not exist simply to express pleasure at an identity, they are reactions to humiliation and abuse. "Whites" have never suffered such in American for being white, just like "Straights" have never been abused for being straight.

Second, are you really proud to be straight? Did you have to do a lot of work to get there? What an odd thing to take pride in.

Once again, "Gay pride" is less, "Hey, I'm awesome because I'm gay," than it is, "I'm gay and I am no longer going to be made to feel ashamed of that fact." The same is true of Black Pride and any other designation.

Thus, expressing "White" or "Straight" pride is a mostly incoherent concept. Express pride for graduating from college or doing a good job where you work or anything you actually had some input in. I don't take a lot of pride in simply being white and straight and I find it sort of odd that you do.

If you had actually bothered to read my posting, you'd have noticed that I stated that I believe everyone should be treated as a human being, nothing more, nothing less. Colour of skin, sexuality, gender, religion, these are all, or should all be, irrelevant. Except in today's society they aren't, and it's coming from both sides. Both sides need to get over themselves, those that hate anyone for being different, and those that instantly label anyone that isn't a minority (or one of the previously repressed) and who isn't filled with guilt and remorse over the actions of their forebears as a bigot.

This paragraph is totally irrelevant. I never accused you of being a bigot. For someone who complains so consistently about having his posts misread, you're arguing against no one, here.
 
Exactly. Gay pride and Black pride movements are a reaction to a society that for centuries, defamed and insulted blacks and gays.

Contrary to "white pride" and "straight pride" movements, that are almost ALWAYS meant to antagonize and even threaten others.
 
@ AvalonXQ and Skeptic,
How far does your free speech right go? Is it free speech to yell "fire" in a crowded theater?

Does free speech include your own kids mouthing off to you? (If you are old enough to have kids.)

Does free speech mean you can use foul language at work if it is a workplace where that isn't appropriate?
 
First, you're once again ignoring the historical context. No one says, "i'm proud to be white," because at no point in American history was there a cultural dynamic that indicated you should feel ashamed to be white. This is not true of "coloureds", homosexuals, and females.

Besides right now you mean?

I'm proud to be a straight Seneca/Welsh/Danish/Swedish/Italian/maybe German male. This was something I had to make amply clear in 'Gay Club' in college. Most all the bisexual and lesbian women insisted that I had to be at least bi because, well, I was nice. I took a lot of **** for saying that I felt ashamed for slavery as a human, but not as a white man. Hell, none of my relatives besides the Seneca ones were even in the US at the time.

Repression, guilt, and bigotry need not be applied at a national level or backed by law to be real, at least real enough for individuals to feel it. So again, I'm proud to be a straight 'white' guy.

EDIT: Obviously this doesn't mean I think there needs to be a 'straight white guy' pride movement. There doesn't. It needs to be recognized that simply saying one is proud to be a straight white guy is not an indicator that the person saying it is a bigot depending on the situation. Also, that individuals do encounter bigotry for all sorts of reasons, even for being a straight white male.
 
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Besides right now you mean?

I'm proud to be a straight Seneca/Welsh/Danish/Swedish/Italian/maybe German male. This was something I had to make amply clear in 'Gay Club' in college. Most all the bisexual and lesbian women insisted that I had to be at least bi because, well, I was nice. I took a lot of **** for saying that I felt ashamed for slavery as a human, but not as a white man. Hell, none of my relatives besides the Seneca ones were even in the US at the time.

Repression, guilt, and bigotry need not be applied at a national level or backed by law to be real, at least real enough for individuals to feel it. So again, I'm proud to be a straight 'white' guy.

Maybe you guys run in different circles, but never once have I, as a white person, felt that American society considered me less of a person for being white.

Again, I find it baffling that you would take pride in your straightness, "YESSSSSSS, the chromosomes bequeathed to me by parents, mixing as they did completely beyond my control, aligned to make me enjoy vagina. Can I get a high five?"

What is the basis of the "straight pride" movement? Marriage? Got that. Being allowed to serve in the military? Nope, got that, too. Being allowed to make-out in public? Yeah, done that a few times, no one's ever gotten pissed at me.

These are not just self-esteem movements, they arose with a real purpose. What would be the purpose of a "White" or "Straight" pride movement? That groups of lesbians treat you better?
 
Maybe you guys run in different circles, but never once have I, as a white person, felt that American society considered me less of a person for being white.

Only knowing you from this board, and your avatar, this sentence was a bit jarring. That is all.
 
Maybe you guys run in different circles, but never once have I, as a white person, felt that American society considered me less of a person for being white.

Again, I find it baffling that you would take pride in your straightness, "YESSSSSSS, the chromosomes bequeathed to me by parents, mixing as they did completely beyond my control, aligned to make me enjoy vagina. Can I get a high five?"

What is the basis of the "straight pride" movement? Marriage? Got that. Being allowed to serve in the military? Nope, got that, too. Being allowed to make-out in public? Yeah, done that a few times, no one's ever gotten pissed at me.

These are not just self-esteem movements, they arose with a real purpose. What would be the purpose of a "White" or "Straight" pride movement? That groups of lesbians treat you better?

See my edit.
 
See my edit.

Ah, ok, I think I understand better now.

I think the important part of your statement was this, "It needs to be recognized that simply saying one is proud to be a straight white guy is not an indicator that the person saying it is a bigot depending on the situation."

I don't disagree with that, my contention that taking pride in being straight is somewhat odd remaining. I think the context is crucial in this case, and here "straight pride" was aimed at insulting, intimidating, or threatening the gay students in that school.

And again, similar expressions outside of a school made by adults need to be evaluated differently.
 
Well put.

I would add that its a pity that all ethnic groups can't have a 'x-pride' expression. But you're right something like 'white-pride' would never be viewed as anything but antagonistic.

The problem I see with the whole x-pride thing is that it just builds the walls higher.

I think that until we as a race of beings can learn to embrace our similarity's we need to learn keep our differences on the back burner.
 
I am just gonna say it: I am proud to have pale white skin with a few hundred freckles. And I am proud to like female T&A..and not male booty.

so there. :)
 
Ah, ok, I think I understand better now.

I think the important part of your statement was this, "It needs to be recognized that simply saying one is proud to be a straight white guy is not an indicator that the person saying it is a bigot depending on the situation."

I don't disagree with that, my contention that taking pride in being straight is somewhat odd remaining. I think the context is crucial in this case, and here "straight pride" was aimed at insulting, intimidating, or threatening the gay students in that school.

And again, similar expressions outside of a school made by adults need to be evaluated differently.

Correct. I think the specific case in the OP is bigots being bigots while trying to play the victim. The violent message alone would be enough to ban the shirts at any time of the school year. Wearing them specifically when there are events to combat bullying directed at homosexual/bisexual students is pretty unambiguous douchebaggery.
 
There's nothing wrong with white pride. Larry Bird and Eminem would be somewhat impressive/above par/mediocre black guys, but we like them because they're white and that's ok.

The problem with white pride slogans is because guys like David Duke co-opt and twist the idea to make white pride synonmous with "let's kill all the blacks." It doesn't logically follow and it's a shame.
 
I want a t-shirt that just says: "pri/d/e", seeing as I define /d/ as a kind of sexual orientation all on its own :p
 

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