Students protest at NYU

[The_Animus]

Ignore this....

 

[The_Animus]

Making documentary films, organizing people with similar views and goals, creating PACs, having talks/lectures, etc.

It is my understanding that this has been going on for a very long time and hasn't accomplished much of anything. Corruption, greed, wage inequality, environmental disregard are still rampant.

For every documentary, PAC, or lecture, there is a newcast, online article, PAC, etc. providing opposite support. Those with power have a much greater media presence than those without and media is the controller of public opinion. In fact we are bombarded by so much information, opinions, and calls for action that most of the time all we ever do is talk. How many times is a phenomenal book written addressing the injustices, engaging the reader and making them yearn for change only for the people who read it to simply go back to work, forget about it, and continue with life as if none of what they just read was true.

We live in a culture of mass apathy. Trying to bring about change through the encouraged methods leads to very little.

 

[jimtron]

It is my understanding that this has been going on for a very long time and hasn't accomplished much of anything. Corruption, greed, wage inequality, environmental disregard are still rampant.

For every documentary, PAC, or lecture, there is a newcast, online article, PAC, etc. providing opposite support. Those with power have a much greater media presence than those without and media is the controller of public opinion. In fact we are bombarded by so much information, opinions, and calls for action that most of the time all we ever do is talk. How many times is a phenomenal book written addressing the injustices, engaging the reader and making them yearn for change only for the people who read it to simply go back to work, forget about it, and continue with life as if none of what they just read was true.

We live in a culture of mass apathy. Trying to bring about change through the encouraged methods leads to very little.

I agree with everything you said above. It's extremely difficult to change things, but people should try to spend time figuring out what will be most effective. This NYU protest seems (and again, I don't know much about it) like it might have done the protesters more harm than good--from that Youtube clip anyway, they didn't come off as people with a coherent plan and goals.

It's amazing what MLK and others accomplished in the 60s, for civil rights. One thing that probably helped, is the fact that although there were many people in power trying to keep black people down, there was quite a substantial critical mass--many oppressed blacks as well as sympathizers--who were furious and ready to put themselves on the line. I do think there is a great deal of apathy these days, and many issues that people are protesting are complex and more morally ambiguous, perhaps, than civil rights issues.

 

[Quad4_72]

I understand what you mean and in all honesty I'm a little torn on the issue of what is and isn't needed when it comes to protest/rebellion.

A good example comes from the Republican National Convention. A protest or rally, especially for something like that requires going through proper administrative channels far far in advance and even then many groups who wanted to be allowed to protest were denied that ability. When you have to schedule and get permission from the very orchestration you are protesting doesn't it indicate a problem? And then at that point what do you do? People poured into the twin cities and protested anyway.

Now you can say that them blocking traffic, even if it was peaceful, hurt their cause because then the media portrayed them as instigators and problem causers. But what alternative is there? Just don't protest? Or protest in a small caged area? At what point does it stop being a protest or stop being possible to have a real protest?

There are plenty of areas to have a peaceful protest. Colleges have large open areas and plenty of sidewalks. When you move your protest out onto streets it becomes illegal. That is when the police have to step in.

The police by the way broke numerous constitution rights.
-Illegal entry.

Where exactly and could you specify how the entry was illegal?

-Illegal search and seizure

Where exactly did they search? What did they seize? Present evidence for this claim and why it was illegal.

-Illegal arrests

Disturbing the peace is grounds for arrest. If the arrests were illegal, please cite the law that states so.

-Repeated police brutality

Non existent. You must not know much about law enforcement. They were outnumbered 10-1 and had to control an unruly crowd. In that situation you ask people to get back. If they do not comply, force may be used.

I mean jesus the police were even arresting medics and shutting down the medic stations that had been set up.

Evidence?

And what was done about any of that?

And we payed $50 million for these 'security measures'.

Not sure what you are talking about here.

I think it gets to a point where you have to do what you have to do because otherwise all your efforts amount to is angry muttering but ultimately accepting the wrong and continuing to go about life as if there were no problem at all.

Like wildcat said, maybe they should have protested by not paying the tuition. Seems pretty simple to me. To be honest The animus, your post is overall pretty ignorant and it seems you are not too familiar with the law or how to lawfully protest. You probably would have been right out there with those idiots trying to push past police officers and then crying when force it used.

 

[Skeptic]

And, of course, two other demands:

1). More Palestinian students / aid to the Islamic University in Gaza -- because a political protest just isn't a political protest without being REALLY REALLY angry about "Zionism", and

2). Amnesty to all those in the protest, because, you know, we brave warriors for justice and freedom won't want to be inconvenienced by our actions in any way.

I'm only surprised they didn't add "Don't tell mommy!" as an official demand.

 

[geni]

aid to the Islamic University in Gaza -- because a political protest just isn't a political protest without being REALLY REALLY angry about "Zionism",

You know any other universities that have suffered damage from war lately? Although I admit I can't at short notice find anything about the state of Tskhinvali univeristy.

 

[quarky]

It was clumsy, but they made the news. Now we're discussing it. Spoiled college kids can afford to protest, plus that are somewhat insulated by their campus. Its almost their duty to protest, if its anyone's.

Rich white kids draw media attention better than their less fortunate peers. They have the tools for the job.

 

[firecoins]

I am a former NYU student Graduated 12/2000

I ignored these left wing protests groups since they would often contradict themselves.

I had no idea coke was banned. They served Pepsi which tastes exactly the same.

I had better things to do than worry about NYU employee pay. I was paying too much. I should have gone to state school. NYU was a waste of money.

 

[The_Animus]

Quad4_72:

You ask for evidence and then call me ignorant and insult me before I can even have a chance to respond. I use these forums for an exchange of ideas not as a court in which to prove a case.

I don't know about you but my time is precious to me and I have little incentive to spend it in the service of someone looking to stroke their intellectual ego.

Perhaps if you change your attitude and I feel you have a genuine interest I will oblige you. Otherwise I have no interest in discussing anything with someone just looking to argue as a means of feeling good about themself.

 

[Texas]

Quad4_72:

You ask for evidence and then call me ignorant and insult me before I can even have a chance to respond. I use these forums for an exchange of ideas not as a court in which to prove a case.

I don't know about you but my time is precious to me and I have little incentive to spend it in the service of someone looking to stroke their intellectual ego.

Perhaps if you change your attitude and I feel you have a genuine interest I will oblige you. Otherwise I have no interest in discussing anything with someone just looking to argue as a means of feeling good about themself.

Why was their first demand full amnesty for themselves?

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

I don't know hte rest of it, but I was going to start another thread on this topic and
student loans. This guy was on NPR this afternoon and it was interesting to note that
virtually every protection for the borrower has been removed off student loans and it is in the interest of both the school and the lender that you default on your loan.

http://www.studentloanjustice.org/

I can't speak for the lenders, but I worked in financial aid at a public university until about three years ago, and I can tell you defaulted loans are certainly not in the school's best interest. The feds, surprisingly enough, actually keep track of the percentage of students from a given institution who go into default. If that percentage gets too high, the school is cut off from federal financial aid funds. That means fewer students, which in turn means even less money coming in (from tuition, obviously, but state funding is mostly a factor of enrollment, as well).

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

I think the fact that they all brought their Macs really is telling about the state of modern social activism. If they really want the protesters to give up just kill the wireless network for a couple of hours. Once you remove their access to Twitter and Facebook they'll slowly starve.

 

[LostAngeles]

Honestly, I'd like to see the UC Regents give up the projected yearly budget and last year's actual budget. If we really take in as much money as I hear we do from merchandising and grants, why the hell are fees getting hiked again?

And how much did the retrofitting of Kerkoff Hall cost that we all are paying for it?

(They might have it posted since they are part of CA government, but I haven't had any luck finding it.)

 

[Skeptic]

I think the fact that they all brought their Macs really is telling about the state of modern social activism. If they really want the protesters to give up just kill the wireless network for a couple of hours.

Actually, the administration, in an act of cruel, heartless torture, cut off their internet. Speeded up the surrender, I suppose.

 

[Donal]

NYU is a private institution. They don't have to disclose their records unless you can prove they are doing something illegal.

Also, these people (again, not all were NYU students) shut down the student lounge for 2 days. This means the people that were scheduled to work there missed out on that pay.

So, they cost the workers they are supposedly fighting for (who did not ask for such help) 2 days of pay, demand accountability from the administration, and yet want total amnesty for themselves.

Here is an account of the event as told by a reporter for a student newspaper that was allowed to go along for the ride. Kind of revealing.

 

[Quad4_72]

Quad4_72:

You ask for evidence and then call me ignorant and insult me before I can even have a chance to respond. I use these forums for an exchange of ideas not as a court in which to prove a case.

I don't know about you but my time is precious to me and I have little incentive to spend it in the service of someone looking to stroke their intellectual ego.

Perhaps if you change your attitude and I feel you have a genuine interest I will oblige you. Otherwise I have no interest in discussing anything with someone just looking to argue as a means of feeling good about themself.

Fair enough. Ignore these two sentences in my previous post:

To be honest The animus, your post is overall pretty ignorant and it seems you are not too familiar with the law or how to lawfully protest. You probably would have been right out there with those idiots trying to push past police officers and then crying when force it used.

Now would you kindly respond to my other questions?

 

[BPSCG]

It's amazing what MLK and others accomplished in the 60s, for civil rights. One thing that probably helped, is the fact that although there were many people in power trying to keep black people down, there was quite a substantial critical mass--many oppressed blacks as well as sympathizers--who were furious and ready to put themselves on the line.

It also helped that the civil rights movement had one clear, easily-understood goal - equal rights and equal justice for black people.

As opposed to:

1. Tuition increases: tuition keeps rising above the rate of inflation. We need to know why.
2. Sustainability: how NYU spends its money matters to the environment.
3. Sexism and racism: secrecy protects discrimination in employee pay.
4. Genocide and war profiteering: we need to make sure NYU’s endowment doesn’t support companies that perpetuate war and genocide.
5. Fair wages: all NYU employees deserve a living wage. We need to make sure they get it
6. Animal research: students deserve to know if our tuition supports animal research many consider cruel.
7. Financial aid: it still sucks.
8. Expansion: our tuition dollars fund NYU’s rapid expansion. We deserve to know how our tuition is affecting the community around NYU.
9. Abu Dhabi: NYU-AD is a very risky investment, and is being constructed by a government known for its abuse of human rights
10. Corruption: secrecy protects people with something to hide.

And it also helped that Martin Luther King didn't come off as a self-important little twit.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Actually, the administration, in an act of cruel, heartless torture, cut off their internet. Speeded up the surrender, I suppose.

Did they get the brutality of the internet killing on film? Did they decide to do so by a concensus system?

 

[quixotecoyote]

It also helped that the civil rights movement had one clear, easily-understood goal - equal rights and equal justice for black people.

As opposed to:<snip>

And it also helped that Martin Luther King didn't come off as a self-important little twit.

Agree with point 1, disagree with point 2.

Lots of people thought King was an arrogant twit, even uppity, you might say.

 

[dudalb]

Quad4_72:

You ask for evidence and then call me ignorant and insult me before I can even have a chance to respond. I use these forums for an exchange of ideas not as a court in which to prove a case.

I don't know about you but my time is precious to me and I have little incentive to spend it in the service of someone looking to stroke their intellectual ego.

Perhaps if you change your attitude and I feel you have a genuine interest I will oblige you. Otherwise I have no interest in discussing anything with someone just looking to argue as a means of feeling good about themself.

Physician,heal thyself.