Student Teaching: Am I Supposed to be THIS miserable?

[Larry Barrieau]

Hi Sling,

I was going to give you some good advice but it's already been given. Remember you're just stopping over to get the credentials so you can have your own class. When I was a student teacher I realized early on that I wasn't there to teach the students, I was there so they could teach me. You're not expected to be a good teacher right now.

Everything you are experiencing now you will experience where you work. The punks, the territorialism, the politics, the unsupportive administration; but stick it out and it gets better every year and so do you.

It's very stressful. As a union rep I have dealt with a lot of veteran teachers who still get leaky eyes sometimes.

Larry

 

[bpesta22]

The only rule of teaching I can offer is be yourself (not saying you're not). If you try to be someone else, the students will sense it.

Also, the NEA is the biggest union in the country-- is your district unionized? If so, perhaps you can go to the steward / union rep with your concerns over how your mentors are treating you?

 

[slingblade]

Hi, Larry, and thanks;

You know, I'm really grateful for the advice and support here, and I realize you're right: this is my testing ground, and to an extent, my proving ground. I know it's intrinsically difficult, but I'm not asking them to make it easier on me--just to support me while I go through it; make it bearable, if at all possible.

What irks me are those in my cohort to whom I speak who tell me "Oooh, I'm just having so much fun, wheeeeee!"

I'm not having fun. Grumble. I want to have some fun, grumble, grumble.

....okay. I am having some fun. A little. A smidge. I have the most fun when my students get "ah-ha" moments because of something I said, or an activity I made them try even though it sounded "stupid" to them at first. The best is when I inspire an "ah-ha" moment in one student, who then goes on to explain what she just figured out to another student, and they spread the ah-ha moment through the classroom.

But now that I can see, through the folks here, that what I'm going through isn't abnormal, or isn't just me being picked on, I think it will become a bit more bearable.

Larry, I really needed to hear that I needn't be a great teacher right now. I don't think I'm a perfectionist, but I do have perfectionist tendencies. I expect a lot out of myself. I think I'm the one making this hardest on myself.

Sling resolves to lighten up.

And to figure out why she's speaking in third-person.

Thank you, Larry.

 

[rjh01]

I am not a teacher, I am a supervisor of people. One peace of advice that has not been given is to record every little issue. Then if someone says what is the issue with this person? You can tell them dates, times and incidents. Not just the latest one. Also record what you have done about the incidents.

Remember you will not always be in your internship. Just hang in there. One day it will be over. One way or another. What way is up to you.

If you want to know more find and read books on bullying.

 

[Larry Barrieau]

One peace of advice that has not been given is to record every little issue. Then if someone says what is the issue with this person? You can tell them dates, times and incidents. Not just the latest one. Also record what you have done about the incidents.
.

Excellent advice!



Bye the way, Happy Birthday Sling!

 

[Roadtoad]

*wince*

Okay, I gotta pass this one on...

Sling, my second son, Chris, is a student teacher as well. The one thing he has recommended is that you cannot allow the chaos to start. You have to get control from the get-go. In reading what you said, what Chris thought was that while you were allowing the teachers to maintain control during the observation period, that was the time to start connecting and developing authority yourself. This would have helped you later on. His thought is (and this is something I thought of, but didn't connect on) that having been a victim of abuse, there's a tendency towards passivity on your part. You have the authority, it's just putting it to use.

The boys in your class who are grooving on making your life miserable aren't interpreting your kindness as kindness. They see it as weakness. They want the authority that you have. Chris' view is that you need to exercise authority early, and often, to break their desire to play these games. Otherwise, you're going to make yourself miserable. And that's not why you spent all that money going back to school.

It's a live and learn deal. When I teach a new guy how to drive a truck these days, it's almost the same sort of thing. He might have that cert from a driving school, but the reality is that all he has is a Commercial Driver's License. He's got next to nothing in the way of knowledge of trucking, (and I've already told one tale about this), but some of these guys think that having that ticket in their pocket makes them big sh**. It took me a while to get to the point where I could tell them, "Look, until you've put that first million miles under your wheels, you don't know jack. So, shut up and listen. After you've gotten a couple of hundred thousand miles behind you, then you can tell me what you know about trucking."

You can do this, Sling. It's not going to be easy. But you can do it. You will succeed.

 

[T'ai Chi]

Hi slingblade.

Don't know about the teaching English part, but as far as bullies, they are to be found everywhere, in classes, on internet bulletin boards, on sports teams, and even among coworkers sometimes.

Unfortunately, there is little one can do about these frightened and threatened people who thrive on power plays and a dueling mentality. They usually grow out of it, or don't end up being successful in many areas of life.

When I was a teaching assistant in college, if grown up students acted up to a point where I couldn't teach, I just stood silently until they stopped. The longest I had to wait was a little over 5 minutes.

The bullies feed off of agitated reactions which are natural and to be expected, not unexpected relaxed and silent responses. Most often what occurs, is that the other students rally against the bullies, which is nice to see.

 

[slingblade]

Sling, my second son, Chris, is a student teacher as well. The one thing he has recommended is that you cannot allow the chaos to start. You have to get control from the get-go. In reading what you said, what Chris thought was that while you were allowing the teachers to maintain control during the observation period, that was the time to start connecting and developing authority yourself. This would have helped you later on.

I agree this would have been the right thing, save that the classes I teach are semester courses: all new students in January, just as in August. There was no way to establish authority then, as I hadn't yet met them. It was just like the first day of school in many ways.

His thought is (and this is something I thought of, but didn't connect on) that having been a victim of abuse, there's a tendency towards passivity on your part. You have the authority, it's just putting it to use.

This is true to an extent; I can't deny it. However, I'm also the mother of 2 sons, and stepmom to 2 others (I have a total of 4 stepchildren, but I reared only 2 of them). It's not that I'm reluctant to be the authority: in my mind, it's that I don't know what steps I can take, or when they are best taken, as an authority. This makes me hesitant.

I have decided to call and speak to the father of the young man who bullied me and the other student. I understand from my mentor that his dad is strict, and wouldn't appreciate his behavior. I don't think I should tell the student I'm going to call his dad, but just do it. OTOH, I hate to get anyone in trouble; yes, I know he got himself in trouble. Oh, hell.

Here's what I see as a problem (although the few in my profession to whom I have mentioned this disagree with me): I have a head full of education theory, and very little practical application upon which to draw. Much of my learning was based on being a "PC" teacher, recognizing diversity and cultural differences which exist in my classrooms, and structuring discipline accordingly. I just wish they had focused more on telling us what kinds of discipline options we have: "Your low-level discipline options include....your moderate-level, your high-level," and so forth.

The boys in your class who are grooving on making your life miserable aren't interpreting your kindness as kindness. They see it as weakness. They want the authority that you have. Chris' view is that you need to exercise authority early, and often, to break their desire to play these games. Otherwise, you're going to make yourself miserable. And that's not why you spent all that money going back to school.

So very true. I am proud of the fact that while they cannot help but know I'm not pleased, they have never seen me lose my temper or get weepy. They have seen me frustrated, however, and that's bad enough.

I do not, however, have it in me to be a bitch--or rather, I have it in me to be a BIG bitch, and don't want to go there. It is clear to me that finding this middle ground is very much one of those things that time and experience alone will teach me.

It's a live and learn deal. When I teach a new guy how to drive a truck these days, it's almost the same sort of thing. He might have that cert from a driving school, but the reality is that all he has is a Commercial Driver's License. He's got next to nothing in the way of knowledge of trucking, (and I've already told one tale about this), but some of these guys think that having that ticket in their pocket makes them big sh**. It took me a while to get to the point where I could tell them, "Look, until you've put that first million miles under your wheels, you don't know jack. So, shut up and listen. After you've gotten a couple of hundred thousand miles behind you, then you can tell me what you know about trucking."

You can do this, Sling. It's not going to be easy. But you can do it. You will succeed.

Toad, thank your Chris for me, please, and tell him I wish him well in his career! (I also have a son named Chris. ) I know I can do this, and I thank you for your confidence in me.

I think what really bugs me the most is the apparent joy of my cohort in their placements. They keep telling me they're having so much fun. I'm having fun, too, but not so much that it outweighs the negatives. And that irks me.

Thank you!

 

[Hindmost]

Hi Slingblade,

I have the utmost sympathy for you. I changed careers from engineering to teaching awhile ago and I have been teaching for about 5 years now. I was fortunate to have a good mentor during student teaching and found the experience enjoyable. I was looking forward to my first job thinking it would be similar and I would fall right into a good situation. I was naive. My first year of teaching I had two classes at the end of the day that were straight out of hades.

During that first year, I had some awful students that almost made me want to quit and walk out of the school. (I could always go back to engineering) I cannot remember a day that I came out of those classes with a smile on my face. The students weren't just disruptive, some of them were just mean. I really think there is an unwritten policy with teaching that is designed to throw teachers into the deep end and see if they swim--and I was not doing well. I would send students out of class and the admin would sent them back telling me to deal with it. Other new teachers were having the same feelings and though it was nice to have kindred spirits, the job was not what I really signed up for. I never did give up however and I finished that first year exhausted and rethinking my career change. I decided to try another year and found out things can get better.

I don't want to just echo the good advice I have seen on other posts, so I will try and add some value here.

I have found most--if not all-- students always show more respect if they feel you really know your stuff. If you can answer all questions, cannot be fooled on subject matter and you work hard to teach them you will eventually get more respect. I believe you won't have problems there. Eventually, as students talk to each other, the word will spread about your classes and students will improve their attitude. Once you have your ownership of your classroom, teaching will become more of what you expected and it will be enjoyable. However, you will always have some students that will be a headache and you will always be exhausted from all the work.

Now, at the beginning of the year, I set down the rules and I don't have to really be any type of enforcer--the students know what is expected before the year begins--word spreads quickly. I don't raise my voice and I can keep a class in line and focused. I like to give rewards more than punishment, however, you must be careful on the reward side as well...students may expect a reward at every turn.

Now, some of those former students that I really wanted to nuke, are always polite to me and appreciate what I was doing. I rarely have problems and I can deal with them.

hang in there...

glenn (and fellow Heinlein fan)

"Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence." Heinlein

 

[drkitten]

I have tried to contact my supervisor's supervisor. She was my instructor in two edu classes last semester, and seemed impressed by me, and to like me.

She is not taking calls from any of us. I got it from another ST at my school, also one of my cohort at college, that he did reach her once, and she told him flatly she was too busy to take our calls, and we would have to work with our supervisors.

Dean of Education.

I have never seen a problem in an educational setting that could not be solved by invoking the Dean. Specifically, if your supervisor won't do his job, and his supervisor won't do hers, then just continue working up the chain of command. Eventually it will get to the point where the person who gets your complaint doesn't care about the politics of it and simply wants it off his desk, and will fix things in no uncertain terms.

 

[Seismosaurus]

Any advice would be welcome, and any advice on where to go to get the info I need on how to teach would be very, very welcome.

I'm a science teacher myself (UK not US), in public schools also. I've been through some of the same stuff you have, so I thought I'd send a bit of advice your way. I don't know if some or all of this is going to be rendered moot by the differences in culture between US and UK schools...

First, do NOT let people break the rules regarding what you do and don't have to do. You don't have to do it in an accusative way, put it more as "I thought I wasn't supposed to be doing this... is that right? What do the rules say?" If that doesn't resolve things, go to their supervisor - again not being accusative. And so on up the line until somebody listens and acts. Ultimately, all you are asking them to do is to conform to the school policy so somewhere along the line you should win.

In the UK, I would also go see my union representative if I was having trouble with the bosses. Don't know how unions work in the US, though.

As for the students. The situation you describe is extremely common. It's a game to them, and the winner is the one that makes you crack - the one who makes you visibly upset or angry in front of them. I have several times had kids brag to me about making student teachers quit!

Do NOT let this become a personal battle - it's a bad idea to talk to them in terms of "Well if you push me, I'll give you a zero!" because that's a challenge - if they back down to you they lose face in front of their friends, so their response is to up the stakes in return - "You think I care if you give me a zero?"

Rather, lay it out as being purely a consequence of their actions. More like "Hmm, okay. But if you choose to do that, you know you'll get a zero for the lesson," or "if you really have decided not to work today, you won't be staying in the classroom. You have two minutes." AND THEN WALK AWAY. This is vital. NEVER stay and argue with them. As soon as you finish explaining the consequences of his choice, you simply turn your back on him and walk off, go help someone else. He might act out behind your back, but that doesn't make him look big in front of his mates, it makes him look like an idiot trying to get the last word after the fight is over. And if he hasn't complied within the time, follow through on what you threatened. Do NOT give him another chance, no matter how he might beg and plead. "You knew the consequences. You chose to misbehave. If you didn't want this to happen, you should have made a different choice."

In terms of subject knowledge, remember that you only have to be one or two steps ahead of the students! You can hit the books, ask other teachers - I've never known a teacher who minded being asked for help in planning lessons. In the UK science teachers generally teach their own science specialty and one other heavily, and the third to a lesser degree - so I teach mostly physics and chemistry, but some biology. I'm always having to ask biology teachers all kinds of stuff, and often answering their physics questions in return. You wouldn't think it, but teaching can be a very lonely job, IF you let it be. The more you talk to others, the better you will feel.

 

[slingblade]

You wouldn't think it, but teaching can be a very lonely job, IF you let it be. The more you talk to others, the better you will feel.

I can see that, and easily. Today, the other ST at my school finally confessed he hates his sixth hour as much as I do mine, and that they nearly bring him to tears, and he is NOT the crying type. He said, "I know this sounds bad, but I am glad to hear you are having a hard time, too, because I feel less lonely and less like it is all my fault."

I told him I understood completely, and that's what he gets for telling me last week how much fun he's having! He grinned and said, "I am so sorry for that. You needed support, and I didn't give it. Now I understand. We should get together and talk more often, compare notes, and try to help each other."

That felt really good.

I appreciate greatly the management advice you have given. I can see this working better than what I have tried! That's what I needed to hear.

Today I called the mom of the boy who bullied the other student and me last Friday. She was not happy with him. I explained that we had a good relationship to start with, but then he seemed to start following the crowd and has now become antagonistic in class. His attitude has soured and it bothers me, since we started out so well.

She said she'd not only speak to him about it, but that if it continues or gets worse, I am to call her, and she will come to class with him. For days, if necessary.

Today I had a problem with a student who is very active in class (the type one might call "ADD," but I don't like to throw such terms around as if they were meaningful in all cases). We were going to watch The Great Gatsby,
and this student snitched the remote control. I kept trying to turn on the TV, and he kept turning it off. Then he got tired of that, and kept turning the DVD player on and off. Another student told me he had the remote, so I got it from him, and started the film. As soon as the opening credits were done, he turned off the film. I stood up quietly, stood behind him, and saw a second remote in his lap! He had snitched two, the one for the TV, and the universal remote, and was using the universal without my seeing it.

I'd had it. I'd gotten very frustrated and wasted a LOT of time just setting up the player. Wasted class time irritates me no end. So I sent him to the hall for the rest of class and told him he wouldn't be able to participate in the scored discussion we would have after the film, as he would miss the first half-hour or so. You can't discuss what you can't see. So he had essentially bought himself a zero for the entire film because he thought he'd be funny.

We'll see how it goes tomorrow.

Thanks for the very helpful suggestions! I can use them all!

 

[screw_dog]

Well done slingblade. It sounds like you handled yourself very well in a situation that could have gone really badly. Good stuff!

The only thing I would suggest is to ensure that you speak to the student who'd misbehaved and explain to him what happened. That is, make sure that he understands what was unacceptable in what he did, why it is unacceptable and why he was punished. If you've already done that, good stuff!

 

[slingblade]

Screw Dog, after I sent him to the hall and restarted the film, I went out there and asked him the usual question: did you really think that was funny?

Because I could have actually laughed, had he stopped with turning the TV off a couple of times. I have a sense of humor, and a darned good one, and while I would never want to encourage misbehavior, I can recognize a tension-breaker. This happened in 5th hour, with whom I have a good relationship. But I was dreading 6th hour, and it was starting to get a little tense in the room as that class period approached. It really would have been amusing, had he done it once or twice and there's the end of it.

The annoying part was that this misbehaving student is one I have supported since last semester. I had him in my compostion class, first hour, and he wasn't turning in much work. One of the assignments had been to write a college or work goal statement, and he hadn't done it. We had a long talk and he said neither form of writing was applicable to him: he's a musician. So, instead, I guided him to write an artist's statement, and doggone if his writing wasn't almost perfect! And I told him so, quite proud of him.

This semester, he invited me to come watch him play at a Raza event, and I went. He's good! I have a musically gifted son, and this student reminds me of him a lot. For this guy to tweak me so hard was odd, and bothered me even more than if one of my classroom bullies done it.

Today he and I will talk. I had tried to call him mom, too, but their phone is disconnected. So, instead, I'll be talking to the Hispanic LEAGUE office at school, and they'll help me impress upon him how detrimental to his own future such acts are. (I have left out a lot: this student can be annoying, trying to be funny, but so far I have managed to keep this behavior from being too disruptive.) Yesterday was excessive, and he needs to realize that, if he doesn't already. I'll be speaking with him, trying to restore the relationship if he's willing, and trying to impress upon him why what he did got him in so much trouble. I'm betting he knows, though.

I am somewhat dreading these classes today. I don't know what to expect, and hope I can deal with whatever comes my way.

 

[screw_dog]

Thanks for the background. It seems you handled yourself well. I'm impressed by how you handled the situation, I could feel my blood boiling even as I read your account, not sure what I would have done in your place!

I am somewhat dreading these classes today. I don't know what to expect, and hope I can deal with whatever comes my way.

I've had a few groups that I've not looked forward to, but there is one in particular that sticks in my mind. Allow me to set the scene...

I was running a psycho-educational program to address cognitive deficits related to offending. The program was 10 weeks long, 4 times a week, 2 hours each session. I had a cofacilitator and 10 participants, ranging from a 20 year old armed robber to a 45 year old indigenous wife basher.

One of our participants was a deeply entrenched violent offender. He'd first been before the courts at the age of 11 (when he was considered too young to be punished). He'd been convicted of 46 offences during the year that he was 15. His offending history was so extensive that by the time he was 18 he was serving 5+ year sentences (almost unheard of at that age). By the time he ended up in our group he was about 30. His offending was almost all violent, mainly armed robberies.

Anyway, this guy is not only of below average intelligence, he also has narcissistic personality disorder (not my diagnosis). He decides that he is going to run the program, not us, and no-one is going to make him look stupid in front of the other participants.

He argued everything we said, throughout the entire program. He disagreed over every single point, arguing even the definitions of the words we were using. The other participants were so scared of him that they wouldn't pull him up for disrupting the class, and he didn't care anyway. I cried several times.

Everyday I used to drag myself to that class, and drag myself through it. My cofacilitator was even less able to handle him, and I found myself having to help her through it too. The only thing that kept me going was the thought that not only did the other 9 participants really need the program, but that my problem participant needed it most of all.

In the end, I doubt I made much, if any, difference to him. He had such a strong pattern of behaviour that I wonder if anything could shift him from it. However, I feel really good about having got through it, and I haven't had a group to fear since, as none have been as bad as him!

 

[pgwenthold]

Today I had a problem with a student who is very active in class (the type one might call "ADD," but I don't like to throw such terms around as if they were meaningful in all cases). We were going to watch The Great Gatsby,
and this student snitched the remote control. I kept trying to turn on the TV, and he kept turning it off. Then he got tired of that, and kept turning the DVD player on and off. Another student told me he had the remote, so I got it from him, and started the film. As soon as the opening credits were done, he turned off the film. I stood up quietly, stood behind him, and saw a second remote in his lap! He had snitched two, the one for the TV, and the universal remote, and was using the universal without my seeing it.

I'd had it. I'd gotten very frustrated and wasted a LOT of time just setting up the player. Wasted class time irritates me no end.

Wow, you handled that a lot better than I would have. You might have a sense of humor, and I do, too, but these types of annoying little twits aren't funny at all.

When you asked him if he thought it was funny, what did he say?

I would have been more blunt. Probably the second time he turned it off, I would have just quit trying, and said, OK, if you don't want to watch the movie, we'll have a lecture instead. At that point, I doubt anyone else would think it would be funny.

When I was reading this, I was thinking about my dog, who likes to do that. For example, if we need him to go outside before we leave, and he doesn't want to, then he will stand just out of our reach. As we get closer, he then runs away, expecting us to come after him. It's just a game. The short answer is that we don't play his game. He runs away, we ignore him until he comes back to us. That would have been my approach in this case. Don't play his game. If he doesn't want to watch the movie (i.e. turns off the tv), then say, if that's what you want, we will do something else. And make sure it is something less enjoyable than watching a movie.

Remember: high school. Peer pressure. If the class isn't happy with it, it will hurt him more than any hallway sitting could ever do.

One last thing: it has been mentioned above, but I want to reiterate it: Don't take it personally. You can't let it affect you personally. It's not a personal thing on their part. They are just treating you like the sub. I know it's hard to not take it personally, but you have to learn to not do it. It will make your life much better.

OTOH, be sure to take the good stuff personally

 

[slingblade]

When you asked him if he thought it was funny, what did he say?

"No.......I'm sorry."

I would have been more blunt. Probably the second time he turned it off, I would have just quit trying, and said, OK, if you don't want to watch the movie, we'll have a lecture instead. At that point, I doubt anyone else would think it would be funny.

I didnt know the problem was a student playing with the remote, at first. I thought I was having tech problems and the darned thing was busted or hooked up wrong. Then, when I did find out, I thought I had taken his toy away from him--I didn't realize it had come with two remotes! When he shut off the movie, I tossed him out. Enough was E-nuff!

He skipped my class today.

But I did contact the LEAG office, and the director put in calls to the student's Grandmother, who's raising him, immediately!

One last thing: it has been mentioned above, but I want to reiterate it: Don't take it personally. You can't let it affect you personally. It's not a personal thing on their part. They are just treating you like the sub. I know it's hard to not take it personally, but you have to learn to not do it. It will make your life much better.

OTOH, be sure to take the good stuff personally

Naturally! Yes, to an extent, I know I am taking it personally. But I'm also awfully stressed about simply doing a good job so I can get hired. And that seems to be outweighing my worry that they "don't like me." Meh, I can live with them not liking me. No, really. Really!

Thanks!

 

[cbish]

Slingblade
been there done that. I had a similar situation as yours with my first experience in student teaching. (didn't have the bullies, though). You've received some excellent advice. Just to reiterate. You don't have to be good now. The purpose of student teaching is to show you can run a classroom and steal everything that isn't bolted down. Don't worry about making administrators upset by sending students down. Copy as much curriculum as you can carry. If anything, develop your own style.

One thing that caught my eye. You mentioned the father of one of the trouble makers is very strict. This may explain why the boy is the way he is. If you call home, is the boy going to get smacked around? Think about it. It does happen.
cb

PS; You're going to have to have that leaky eye thing fixed before you deal with your first nutbar parent. And, there's alot of them. Actually, there's not alot of them, it just seems that way because that's who you spend 90% of your parent contact with.

 

[slingblade]

Cbish,

I sure wish I could fix my leaky eyes, but I'm afraid 47 years' work on the problem hasn't put much of a dent in it.

As for the student with the strict father, I was misinformed. It is a strict mother, a single parent. (Maybe I mis-heard.) She was glad to hear from me, glad I told her what Junior's been up to, and promised to speak to him. "He knows he's to respect all his elders. If he still acts up, I'm happy to come to class with him."

Class was much, much better today. It all went smoothly, and believe it or not, many of them are actually getting into Gatsby! Imagine that: no crashes, car chases, explosions, or naked women, and they're actually paying attention and already starting to comment on the film. I think this is going to be a good unit, for a change.

I am also learning to speak "student." "This is stupid" translates to "I don't understand and don't want to admit it."

Thanks to all the good advice and great support I'm getting here, this is getting much better. Even bad days don't seem as bad, because I know now that this type of thing is going to happen, even if I were the best teacher in the world.

I just wish my department could be as supportive as the folks here have been.
I am so grateful. You've all kept me from quitting, and have renewed my desire to teach. I can't thank you all enough for that.

 

[TragicMonkey]

He argued everything we said, throughout the entire program. He disagreed over every single point, arguing even the definitions of the words we were using.

..snip..

In the end, I doubt I made much, if any, difference to him. He had such a strong pattern of behaviour that I wonder if anything could shift him from it.

Must...resist...urge...to...ask...if...anyone...finds this familar!!!